Possible for Sony to add analog out from the Multi AV port on the PS3?

Originally Posted by Neo1965

Someone mentioned USB in another thread. It makes sense that both the PS3 and 360 could write a driver to dump raw PCM out of USB after decoding TrueHD and/or DTS-HDMA --- as long as there are devices that can take the raw PCM off USB and feed them to 8 audio-grade DACs to get 7.1 analog.

It's going to be a short window for devices like this as HDMI LPCM will migrate quickly to cheaper AVRs.

Originally Posted by conan48

but why use a box that converts the hdmi signal into 8 dac when we could technically use the multi AV port for the same purpose? Sony would have to support this no doubt and it would have to be enabled by a firmware update but I don't see why it can't be done. Sony component cable is a total of 5 cables. Add at least 1 more and have just analog audio output from the AV port.

but why use a box that converts the hdmi signal into 8 dac when we could technically use the multi AV port for the same purpose? Sony would have to support this no doubt and it would have to be enabled by a firmware update but I don't see why it can't be done. Sony component cable is a total of 5 cables. Add at least 1 more and have just analog audio output from the AV port.

Originally Posted by Gary Murrell

the PS3 is just not a viable dedicated HT component, it can't be turned into one

it does what it does, but what it doesn't do is the problem

-Gary

Originally Posted by mswlogo

See my thread on lossless from a while back.

Stop sweating it.

My audio system has a list price of around $40,000 US (that's just the 5 speakers, amps, and preamp) and I could care less about lossless now and just sold off my DVD-A player (6 channel PCM lossless aka MLP) that listed for $6000.00 because the DTS sounds just as good !!! I'm not trying to brag about my system, I'm more embarassed that I spent as much as I did than brag (I bought it all used/demo and most of it is still current). I'm just trying to make a point that lossless is way over rated. DTS especially at high bitrate is an AMAZING technology. And people want lossless just because it's there. I've fallen in to the same trap. Luckily the DVD-A player I bought as demo and recooped some value. The PS3 sounded just as good on DTS (over optical) as the $7000.00 DVD-A player did playing the same DVD-A on lossless (MLP). The lossless technoligy used on DVD-A IS EXACTLY the same stuff in Dolby TrueHD. Meridian (the system I have and inventor of it) sold the rights of DVD-A (MLP) to Dolby. By the way I don't have Meridian's top end system, that would cost about $220,000.00 List.

The only thing HDMI will get you is SACD on the PS3. But going through a DAC and then another ADC will kill that 5% improvement SACD has.

Also going through a DAC and ADC will be worse than any DTS compression artifacts. I have heard how much a D to A and A to D conversion can decrease the quality of audio. But I can't hear the decrease in audio quality from a good DTS bitstream.

And music is way more critical than movies. DTS and DD is what you still get in the MOVIE THEATER.

Your room, speakers and amps are 90% of the quality of audio you're listening to, focus on that instead.

Even Dolby ProLogic can sound positively amazing on a proper setup.

Originally Posted by DavidHir

If you have an HDMI receiver, then what is the problem? I don't yet, but will likely get one later this year or next. At that point, I don't see what a standalone player will give me over my PS3 for my needs (i.e., Blu-ray movie playback).

Originally Posted by m@rkus

Great post! After spending the last few months purchasing virtually every HDMI equipped receiver under the sun just to be able to listen to LPCM via HDMI from both Blu-ray and HD DVD, I have come to the same conclusion as you have, namely that if you own high quality gear, DTS at 1.5 Mbps output sounds fantastic and is virtually indistinguishable from lossless.

Is this true for every receiver / pre pro? I would say probably not as LPCM via HDMI did sound quite a bit better on all the Yamaha, Denon, Marantz and Onkyo receivers I tried in comparison to running DTS via SPDIF but when I went BACK to better quality products from Arcam, Naim etc., the differences just are not there or are slight to say the least (5.1 analog input comparison as HDMI audio does not exist on these products). I DEFINITELY prefer the Arcam and Naim products in comparison to the Yamaha, Denon, Marantz etc. receivers for simple SD DVD and sat viewing as the sound is far more involving and multi-faceted and DPL II is a big step forward on the Arcam in comparison to the cheaper priced competition. As always, when it comes to music reproduction, its not even a contest.....

For reference purposes, I am currently running an Arcam AVR-350 partnered with a Naim Nait 5i, Neat Acoustic Motive speakers, Escient Fireball DVDM-100 with 2 Sony DVP-CX777ES changers, Toshiba HD-A1 HD DVD player, Panasonic DMP-BD10 Blu-Ray player, Sony PS3, Naca5 speaker cables and Chord Anthem interconnects. Not a "high-end" system by any stretch but one that meets my budget and to me, sounds fantastic for the money. If anything, the only regret I have right now is the Panasonic blu-ray player as I find that the dacs in the Panasonic are inferior to the Arcam, especially when listening to DTS tracks - I much prefer using the SPDIF as opposed to the 7.1 analog outputs of the Panny as the Arcam seems to decode with more detail and slam but this may simply be down to the Panasonic having inferior bass management flexibility in comparison to the Arcam or the additional D to A and A to D conversions that need to take place when using analog outputs. If I had to do it over again, I would simply have stuck with the PS3 as when used via optical to the Arcam, it sounds better than the Panasonic when using the 7.1 analog outputs.

The same holds true for HD DVD when comparing TruHD via 5.1 analog vs. DTS via SPDIF. I find both to be very dynamic and involving and virtually indistinguishable on the Arcam. If anything, the SPDIF is a better option for me as I can make minute adjustments on the fly to the sound that can not be done so easily on the Toshiba when using the 5.1 analog outputs.

Originally Posted by Gary Murrell

the PS3 is just not a viable dedicated HT component, it can't be turned into one

it does what it does, but what it doesn't do is the problem

-Gary

Originally Posted by Gary Murrell

the PS3 is just not a viable dedicated HT component, it can't be turned into one

it does what it does, but what it doesn't do is the problem

-Gary

Originally Posted by razel

HDMI for audio is not madatory. Will most people ever care if they hear the difference and if they do will they be willing to pay? I believe most people would rather spend the money on a bigger, better screen or better speakers (or a larger subwoofer) than hearing lossless audio. Pretty much anything that'll help make the movie more involving. Lossless audio would be a small improvement to that.

Originally Posted by m@rkus

Great post! After spending the last few months purchasing virtually every HDMI equipped receiver under the sun just to be able to listen to LPCM via HDMI from both Blu-ray and HD DVD, I have come to the same conclusion as you have, namely that if you own high quality gear, DTS at 1.5 Mbps output sounds fantastic and is virtually indistinguishable from lossless.

Is this true for every receiver / pre pro? I would say probably not as LPCM via HDMI did sound quite a bit better on all the Yamaha, Denon, Marantz and Onkyo receivers I tried in comparison to running DTS via SPDIF but when I went BACK to better quality products from Arcam, Naim etc., the differences just are not there or are slight to say the least (5.1 analog input comparison as HDMI audio does not exist on these products). I DEFINITELY prefer the Arcam and Naim products in comparison to the Yamaha, Denon, Marantz etc. receivers for simple SD DVD and sat viewing as the sound is far more involving and multi-faceted and DPL II is a big step forward on the Arcam in comparison to the cheaper priced competition. As always, when it comes to music reproduction, its not even a contest.....

For reference purposes, I am currently running an Arcam AVR-350 partnered with a Naim Nait 5i, Neat Acoustic Motive speakers, Escient Fireball DVDM-100 with 2 Sony DVP-CX777ES changers, Toshiba HD-A1 HD DVD player, Panasonic DMP-BD10 Blu-Ray player, Sony PS3, Naca5 speaker cables and Chord Anthem interconnects. Not a "high-end" system by any stretch but one that meets my budget and to me, sounds fantastic for the money. If anything, the only regret I have right now is the Panasonic blu-ray player as I find that the dacs in the Panasonic are inferior to the Arcam, especially when listening to DTS tracks - I much prefer using the SPDIF as opposed to the 7.1 analog outputs of the Panny as the Arcam seems to decode with more detail and slam but this may simply be down to the Panasonic having inferior bass management flexibility in comparison to the Arcam or the additional D to A and A to D conversions that need to take place when using analog outputs. If I had to do it over again, I would simply have stuck with the PS3 as when used via optical to the Arcam, it sounds better than the Panasonic when using the 7.1 analog outputs.

The same holds true for HD DVD when comparing TruHD via 5.1 analog vs. DTS via SPDIF. I find both to be very dynamic and involving and virtually indistinguishable on the Arcam. If anything, the SPDIF is a better option for me as I can make minute adjustments on the fly to the sound that can not be done so easily on the Toshiba when using the 5.1 analog outputs.

Originally Posted by Earz

Speakers are by far....the number 1 ingredient to better sound......with receivers and pre-pros taking a far distant second.

DTS 1.5 is only available on Fox titles on BD......and there are far more PCM audio titles from Sony and Disney than Fox titles....so hdmi audio is mandatory for the PS3....and anyone who says different is giving ridiculously bad advice.

There are absolutely no titles to compare that have both 1.5 DTS and PCM...so any comparison is not legit at all.
And last but not least....the PS3 is a far better player than the Samsung, Philips, HD-A1, RCA or Sony stand alone....from my experience owning them all.

Originally Posted by Earz

Does Arcam and Naim even have HDMI on any of their gear in order to compare the differences on the same set up?
Are there any titles that have both uncompressed PCM and DTS 1.5 to even compare?

Originally Posted by beatboy77

The PS3 is without a doubt the most amazing HT component I have ever used or have owned. On top of that it is one hell of a value. Some of the great features of the PS3 include:

HDMI 1.3
20/60 Hard Drive
Blu-ray Playback
DVD/CD/SACD Playback
It is a HTPC
Incredible Online Capabilities
Free Online Gaming
Free Online Video/Game Downloads

If this is your definition of something which is "not a viable dedicated HT component," then I have no idea what is.

Originally Posted by m@rkus

The main issue that prevents the PS3 from being a "viable HT component" in most people's minds is the lack of an IR port. This prevents it from being used with everyone's existing universal remotes without some convoluted workaround.

There is always the option of the dedicated PS3 remote but most enthusiasts hate the idea of going back to multi-remote setups.

Originally Posted by Earz

Does Arcam and Naim even have HDMI on any of their gear in order to compare the differences on the same set up?
Are there any titles that have both uncompressed PCM and DTS 1.5 to even compare?

Originally Posted by mswlogo

I think he compared LPCM and DTS of the Yamaha, Denon etc. to his DTS Arcam setup and still prefers the sound of his Arcam DTS setup. Perfectly valid test.

I compared Meridian DVD-A LPCM and DTS (at DVD bit rate) wit NO extra D to A and A to D conversion. DVD-A is the same STUFF. Couldn't hear the difference.