New Sony HD hc7

I am very much looking forward to this camera coming out as well!

Yeah I'm in the HC7 camp as well. This will be my first HDV camera. Reminds me of the TRV-900 save only one sensor. Manual audio gain is never mentioned in any of their data sheets although I know it's there. Top loader is huge over the HC1's bottom feeder. Looks like it has a better sensor than the HC1 too. Says you can go to 1/30th shutter speed to gain light in low light situations. They say it works down to 2 lux without invoking the Super Night Shot it also has. Ready to pull the trigger as soon as I can find it for $1200.

FYI the Canon HV20 is DOA due to missing LANC port so you can't drive it with an external zoom controller on your tripod.

People have the Sony HC7 in their possession now. Went on sale Wednesday in stores.

Yes. Some footage have already appeared in www.listvideo.com.
Checkout these..

Cheers

I really want to get a HD-HC7 but I am not sure if I should wait for the New Canon HV20 to make a decision. The only real weak point I can see in the new canon is that its quoted at a lux 7 and the sony a lux 2.

Where did you get that info from?

The HV20 is rated at a 3.
LINK

I wouldn't go by specs alone though.

7 is just the number I have seen around. I have not done as much reading into the HV20 as the HD-HC7, but I question its ability to truly record 1920x1080 at 24p, because from what I understand all video that is HDV has to be 1440x1080. I do not know about the frame rate, but to be HDV it must be 1440x1080.

You are correct. The sensor is 1920x1080 and then it is downsampled to 1440x1080 to fit into the HDV standard.

Andy K.

Just to make sure your clear on this... There is no way to get 1920x1080 out of the cam. It's an HDV cam using a 1920x1080 cmos (some people buy the cam because they believe they can get 1920x1080 out of it.... You can't)

That is my understanding I just dont get the whole 24p thing at this point. I am not sure how canon is offering it. Is it a trick with the way it is recorded or does HDV support it?

I really just want a camera with the best picture quality in non professionally lit situations.

HDV does support 24p but it is an interesting question... is this REAL 24p or electronicly generated in some fashion?

It's no trick.

LINK

Well, my HC3 has "Cinema mode".... but they never advertised as 24p, so there has to be a difference?

Taken from the link. This should give people a more film-like appearance when shooting in 24P...

Yeah... okay... He-he-he-he.... this time it's me with the reading problem.... The answer was there and I skipped right over it!

Also,

The HV20 records true progressive frames. It is stored on the tape in a 60i stream using pull-down. Editing software will have to remove the pull-down to place the fields into true progressive frames. I believe that most current editing programs will do this.

From what I've gathered (and I'm new when it comes to video cameras) this is the first camcorder to allow this... for a very affordable price I might add.

Still, let's not take the Sony thread too far OT. It looks like a good camera in its own right.

Thanks,

Kyser

Well if you want to de-interlace your video you can do that in which case it is not much different then the sony. You can do just about anything you want with video if you have time and good software. I would also have to believe that eventually someone will make a good filter to turn digital video recorded by non 24p cameras into 24p footage. Also the footage in 24p that I have seen so far from the HV20 seems to be choppy. Good 24p footage does not chop like that.

I do not think we are too far off topic since that is really the only competitor out there to this camera and a good understanding of the 24p mode will help people decided if the sony is right for them. I for one am going to purchase the sony tomorrow after doing more research into the HV20 today.

I have downloaded all the video on the net produced by these cameras and one shot in particular made me pick the sony. It involved a few objects on a black background. At first the cannon seemed to have less noise then the sony, but I think the noise came from poor encoding since the file sizes are so different. I plan on pulling these video's apart tomorrow to verify it, but what really shocked me was how much different black looked on the sony then the canon. The blacks on the canon look faded while the sony look black. Also colors in the video look muted and a bit yellow to me, where as the sony seems to pop a bit more. Once again I am not sure if they are naturally that way or if it the camera is playing tricks. It would be nice if they provided a reference photo to compare it to.

For reference I am viewing these on my Macbook Pro in full screen mode and half size because my screen is not 1920x1080.

Can you provide some links for these downloads please.

Thanks,

Kyser

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/do...4/zooma295.htm

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/do...7/zooma294.htm

I found these after quite a bit of searching and they have similar shots. There is other footage on the net, but it is not close enough to compare in my opinion.

edit: it appears google translator wont let me include it in the link so you will have to put the URL in google translator yourself.

I actually posted the HV20 link a while ago.
The HV20 footage played fine on my PC.
Not choppy at all?

I also posted a nice low-light clip from the HV10 as well. Raw footage...
The black level looked great, the HV20 should only improve in that area.

The HC-7 looks good as well.

The 24p footage looks choppy to me, but I am sensitive to low frame rates. It is not dramatic, but it reminds me of when I tried to play an old game on one of my old PC. Since I had become used to 100+ fps gaming the game looked very choppy to me at 30-60fps, where as when I originally played it like that I thought it was smooth. I have not had this sensation watching other 24p video.

PS just because you posted them a while ago does not mean that google indexed them I found those on another site. I have only been looking in 2 threads on AVS because this site is not really known for its camcorder community.

Well, it is more film-like.

Yeah, AVS is just venturing into camcorders. As am I...

More film like, but still obviously inferior quality to higher end 24p cameras. My only real concern is the black levels. I really cant tell if all that noise is caused by the camera or the encoding or the lighting or what. I wish I could speak to the person that made this video, but the other shots look really good. I like the sharpness of the canon a bit more, but it just feels like the colors are off to me when I watch it. I am leaning towards poor encoding because the sony file is 85 megs while the canon file is 5 megs. Something had to occur to cause the file to balloon like that granted the sony clip is slightly longer. Open them up side by side and play them both and let me know what you think. This would also explain why the canon looks much sharper in some shots.

Of course, but this camera is only $1000.00!
There really is no comparison to high end $$ 24p cameras. One thing is for sure, there are plenty of pros talking about buying this little HV20 to use as their B-roll footage. That says a lot...

I'll look at both clips side by side and see how they look.

Kyser

Funny, the review of the Sony mentions that the colour is off on the HC7. Red pushing towards magenta... past Sony cams have had this "red" problem as well.

Kyser

True enough, the features are very impressive on paper I just cant help but to look and compare. There is also a shot taken with both cameras of a girl leaning on a tree. But sadly the lighting is different. I do not know enough about HD video and these small details to know which is more true to life. I was kind of hopping someone on here could tell me as my only other experience with digital video was the Sony TRV900 which was a great little camera. I used it in final cut to produce quite a few different things and loved it. I have since become a bit of an audio and video snob thanks to 5.1 and HD and now I just want a sub 2k camera that will capture as close to reference quality as possible. So when I look at these video's I am very leery to blame things on the camera, I do at least know that there are many many factors that affect picture quality. I would love to hear someone else chime in and compare these videos the way I am trying to, because so far all I have seen anywhere is a bunch of fanboy like fever.

I am aware of that, but the sony seems to be calibratible to correct this. I was thinking the greens pop a bit much. It seems like most companies are trying to make HD video more vivid rather then closer to life, which I find sad. Granted it can be nice to look at, but I would rather my TV be indistinguishable from a window. The canon seems closer to life, but it also seems very yellow and dull to me.

I was just looking at the file sizes and all the canon files are drastically smaller then the sony files I wonder why this is.

If you go to some of the professional video sites you can get a more biased/expert opinion. There are always fan-boys though...

I'm still not sold on the HV20. I'm going to take a close look at the HC7 and the new JVC Everio first. (If I can get my hands on one..)

I want to make the right choice. The thing is, what's right for me might not be right for someone else.

Cheers,

Kyser