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Significance of 7.1 LPCM over HDMI

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
Can someone explain this for me? It is the only issue that is keeping me from buying a $400 hdmi receiver(Onkyo 604) instead of a $750 one(Yamaha 1700). I plan on buying an A2 at some point. If watching an hd dvd recorded in 7.1 (if there is such a thing), would the rear surrounds of my 7.1 setup not be used at all with the Onkyo receiver (5.1 LPCM over hdmi) or would they be the same as the L/R surrounds? Any help????
post #2 of 15
I am going to say not used when a real 7.1 LPCM is source is being recieved.
post #3 of 15
As long as you get a receiver that can matrix an extra channel or two from 5.1 LPCM, I really don't think there will be much difference.
post #4 of 15
Well there is abr... The difference is that no title is going to have both. They are going to have 7.1 LPCM and then some other DTS or DD track. So at that point you really can't use the 7.1 track because you may be missing content. I mean you don't really kno what is encoded in that rear track(s).

All, in all, I am OK with that though. Even the lowest bit rate DD5.1 is great quality audio and will provide a great theater like experience.
post #5 of 15
Thread Starter 
Is that what this feature indicates? -DTS, DTS-ES Discrete/Matrix 6.1, DTS Neo:6
post #6 of 15
Thread Starter 
And why does the Onkyo say multichannel 7.1 if it can't process 7.1 LPCM over hdmi?
post #7 of 15
Because it has 7.1 analog inputs? And can produce 7.1 effectively from 2.0, 3.1, 5.1, and 6.1 sources?
post #8 of 15
You want a 7.1 receiver that is capable of processing 5.1 TrueHD with Dolby Pro Logic IIx. Then two surround channels will be derived making 7.1.
post #9 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

You want a 7.1 receiver that is capable of processing 5.1 TrueHD with Dolby Pro Logic IIx. Then two surround channels will be derived making 7.1.


Thanks for your help. How would this be listed in the receiver's features or specs? Do you know if the Onkyo 604 can do this?
post #10 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNnDENVER View Post

Well there is abr... The difference is that no title is going to have both. They are going to have 7.1 LPCM and then some other DTS or DD track. So at that point you really can't use the 7.1 track because you may be missing content. I mean you don't really kno what is encoded in that rear track(s).

All, in all, I am OK with that though. Even the lowest bit rate DD5.1 is great quality audio and will provide a great theater like experience.

But the majority of lossless content is 5.1 (if not all) so this is definitely a must have feature that some receivers lack.

Also you would need a player that could even output 7.1 (I dont think any can?), if the player was able to output in 7.1 it would be trivial for the player to matrix it to 5.1 for receivers not supporting 7.1. This is a hypothetical but it would be the proper way to handle this situation.
post #11 of 15
I do not know that receiver. Look up the features for it and refer to this thread.
post #12 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleDave52 View Post

Thanks for your help. How would this be listed in the receiver's features or specs? Do you know if the Onkyo 604 can do this?

For a full explanation of this topic, read this: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1&page=1&pp=30

Short answer, it doesn't appear the Onkyo 604 is capable of applying PLIIx to a LPCM source via HDMI. The Denon's do (I own 2307CI which does and got it for $599 online). Yamaha 1700 and higher do too.

Here's my interpretation of the facts surrounding your original question...

5.1 LPCM over HDMI would require an AVR capable of applying PLIIx to an HDMI source in order to achieve 7.1 surround, as discussed above (something the 604 won't do, apparently).

However, if any HD-DVD were encoded with 7.1 surround, I believe any 7.1 HDMI AVR would be capable of filling all 8 channels passed as LPCM. I wouldn't bet my house on that, but it seems reasonable to me. But that's sort of moot since I don't believe there are any 7.1 HD-DVDs currently. So if you want to always utilize your rear surround speakers even if the source is 5.1, get a "Level 6" AVR.
post #13 of 15
There are a couple of 6.1 LPCM titles on Blu-ray. And no, not all 7.1 AVR's will take 7.1 LPCM, some will only take 5.1 LPCM and produce 7.1 from it.
post #14 of 15
Thread Starter 
You guys just cost me about $300 and 6 more months with this old Kenwood. I do appreciate all the help though.
post #15 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by eengert View Post

For a full explanation of this topic, read this: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1&page=1&pp=30

Short answer, it doesn't appear the Onkyo 604 is capable of applying PLIIx to a LPCM source via HDMI. The Denon's do (I own 2307CI which does and got it for $599 online). Yamaha 1700 and higher do too.

Here's my interpretation of the facts surrounding your original question...

5.1 LPCM over HDMI would require an AVR capable of applying PLIIx to an HDMI source in order to achieve 7.1 surround, as discussed above (something the 604 won't do, apparently).

However, if any HD-DVD were encoded with 7.1 surround, I believe any 7.1 HDMI AVR would be capable of filling all 8 channels passed as LPCM. I wouldn't bet my house on that, but it seems reasonable to me. But that's sort of moot since I don't believe there are any 7.1 HD-DVDs currently. So if you want to always utilize your rear surround speakers even if the source is 5.1, get a "Level 6" AVR.


$600 for a level 6 sounds like a steal....How does it differ from the Yamaha 1700 and Pioneer 81?
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