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Mitsubishi HC5000 via eBay ... Buyer Beware - Page 8  

post #211 of 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by QQQ View Post

There you go again making a totally assanine straw man argument just like the one that Pap Sloth just called you on. Clearly I was suggesting that you should have treated your CUSTOMER Susan with extreme politeness regardless of what some DHL person manning the phone told you. Not that you should "call the DHL person a liar". Man you are so out to lunch it is scary.

And clearly they did not know their ass from a hold in the ground since it was NOT buyer fraud. And anyone with an iota of common sense would have known that they were offering NOTHING but a theory.


Yes, DHL FL offered that theory and DHL Mike offered his theory. Only Susan knew for a fact that she did not actually receive the projector. Mike gave his theory to what happened to her. DHL FL gave their theory to what happened to me.

Susan believed DHL Mike and fought for her rights. I believed DHL FL and fought for mine. The early paypal dispute put things over the top and no further emails were sent to Susan after 1/31 as we were not going to get further involved, we decided that DHL review board will discover the truth and even if they did not, as long as they refunded me to refund Susan, who cares. If they find the DHL delivery guy and Susans projector, as far as I'm concerned, she can keep that one too... We are now not out anything right now, other than the week of demished revenue while all of the hate mails were against us in this forum.
post #212 of 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaSloth View Post

If you can find ONE PERSON in this entire thread who has said that you should have "sent Susan an immediate refund of 3K more for a total of 6k lost before anyone else at DHL had time to review the case," I will PUBLICALLY APOLOGIZE for wronging you, and never post in this thread again. If you CANNOT find anyone who has made such a post, then you should look up "strawman" in the dictionary and drop it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Post_79 View Post

As a show of good faith, the seller could have refunded or sent out another pj once it was confirmed that the first shipment was stolen. He would not be out the money since the insurance would eventually pay up. So the seller has to wait. That sucks too, but that is how insurance works and one of the costs of running a business.

The quote you posted says, "once it was confirmed that the first shipment was stolen." That's not the same as, "before anyone else at DHL had time to review the case." This seems like a big difference to me, but if you think it was hair splitting, then I apologize.
post #213 of 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by QQQ View Post

Well than, Susan has done you a huge favor and you should send her an E-mail thanking her. Though at the beginning of the thread you said she had cost you 50K in sales (no doubt a figure scientifically arrived at). So keep on posting since your making sales from it...

Still lost what was stated in average revenue over the last week, but now sales are returning to normal, a good sign..thx.
post #214 of 246
I think we are all making fools of ourselves by arguing this any further, at least I am . Over and out!
post #215 of 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by QQQ View Post

I think we are all making fools of ourselves by arguing this any further, at least I am . Over and out!

"When you wrestle with pigs you all get muddy, but the pigs like it."

OINK OINK!
post #216 of 246
Quote:
I think we are all making fools of ourselves by arguing this any further, at least I am .

What has changed? 8)

PapaSloth, I dont think its splitting hairs but there was a little pile-on of posts that were suggesting that he should have issued a replacement PJ or reimbursed the money before the insurance determination was madem, starting with that one.

Just trying to show that he wasnt making that up, as you appeared to disbelieve him.
post #217 of 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaSloth View Post

If you can find ONE PERSON in this entire thread who has said that you should have "sent Susan an immediate refund of 3K more for a total of 6k lost before anyone else at DHL had time to review the case," I will PUBLICALLY APOLOGIZE for wronging you, and never post in this thread again. If you CANNOT find anyone who has made such a post, then you should look up "strawman" in the dictionary and drop it.

And, while we're on the subject of making false clams, you keep saying you have 99.999% positive eBay feedback. As of this moment, your feedback is actually 99.8% not including 67 mutually withdrawn ratings. Not a big difference, but you should get your facts straight before posting in a public forum.

And the answer to your first question is, "Yes, you should have disbelieved DHL, because Susan was YOUR customer, not DHLs, and DHL was wrong. So, you clearly backed the wrong horse here, which was a mistake on your part, that you still haven't learned from."


Yes, we have been hit hard over the last 3 weeks with feedback. We ship bulk shipments and they changed pickup staff on us 3 weeks ago with USPS. This new pickup person comes at 11am instead of 3pm so we started getting backed up, then to catch up, we started taking packages to the late drop off. Well that is when we started getting email after email, that the customers did not yet receive their shipments (all of these were speaker mounts that were effected/delayed). Dont know if any of you have used USPS, but their tracking is horrible. We have had several customers in the past that confirmed their package arrived and the USPS tracking still shows LABEL CREATED, as if we never shipped it. Anyway, due to this drop box drop offs, USPS mis routed about 40 so far of our shipments into la la land. We contact USPS, they say, never shipped according to tracking. So we have been shipping out replacements to everyone that emails that they did not receive their package. About 40 out of the last 750 shipped in the last 3 weeks now. So of course, even though most are OK since we did ship them replacements, many are very ticked off and direct thier anger at us directly instead of the actual cause here USPS an leave us Neutral or Negative feedback. So we do try to get them to see what happened and that we did our best to resolve and try to come to a Mutual agreement. Most of the recent negatives are due to them not running the tracking to see that their replacement shipment is indeed due to arrive any day now. Another misunderstanding that we will try to resolve and have mutual removal on..
post #218 of 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaSloth View Post

You really believe your only two choices were to call the FL DHL guy a liar over the phone or to handle the situation exactly as you did? You are hopeless and I wash my hands of you.

Of course not, I was being facetious.
post #219 of 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catdaddy67 View Post

PapaSloth, I dont think its splitting hairs but there was a little pile-on of posts that were suggesting that he should have issued a replacement PJ or reimbursed the money before the insurance determination was madem, starting with that one.

I'm seeing a couple of posts after post 79 that say, "If the merchandise gets lost or stolen...", and "Once DHL admitted to Mr. Barger that Susan DID NOT RECEIVE THE PACKAGE...". I don't see anything that says SBarger should have have refunded the money before DHL investigated. What I'm really objecting to is the false dichotomy that the two choices are "tell the customer you can't help them and they need to contact DHL themselves," or "immediately return the customer's mony before there has been an investigation." Clearly, there are WAY more options than that.

On a side note, I understand you support SBarger's postition here, and I respect that and have absolutely no problem with you disagreeing with me. But, it truly puzzles me, and I'd appreciate a concise statement of why you think SBarger handled this correctly. You are under no obligation, obviously, I'm just open to having my viewpoint changed. I will grant 100% that SBarger was _honest_ in this transaction, acted quickly to ship the product, and from a strict by-the-numbers accounting did the operations side of this transaction correctly. It was on the customer service side, particularly when it came to keeping his customer in the loop that I think he had issues . Do you agree or disagree with that statement?
post #220 of 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbarger View Post

Of course not, I was being facetious.

You do realize that there's a time and a place for being facetious, and when you're trying to prove you're a reasonable person to deal with, that's not necessarily the best time, right? Another life lesson.
post #221 of 246
post 82:

Quote:


There's only one important fact here imo. Once DHL admitted to Mr. Barger that Susan DID NOT RECEIVE THE PACKAGE, then that is where Barger (if he was worth his salt) should have immediately issued a refund or shipped a new projector and focused on recouping his money via either DHL Ebay Paypal or whatever. Customer first! As an Ebay seller it is YOUR responsibility to make sure the product makes it into the customer's hands! Your initial skepticism was warranted, but after hearing from DHL the ball is 100% in your court.

83:

Quote:


1. I don't necessarily disagree with that, but by that time had the buyer not contested her payment?

I support Susan's position too, however, I didnt think people here were being understanding enough to the initial skepticism on the part of Mr. Barger. I put myself in his position and cant see how I would have felt differently, specially after being told by someone at DHL that it looked like buyer fraud - as a $3,000 package had been signed delivered for 2 weeks.

Like Jack, I also believe and have posted several times that DHL Mike enflamed the situation. Not only was Steve hearing "possible buyer fraud" from DHL (on a $3000 package that had been signed for and delivered 2 weeks prior) but Susan was hearing from DHL Mike that Steve was not "making contact" (when he was apparently exchanging emails) after having forked over $3000 for a PJ that was apparently stolen by a DHL driver and she had no control over the insurance that she paid for.

While both could have done things better I think that what each was going through was, at least, understandable but he was not getting any understanding whatsoever from most folks.

I dont do business on ebay but ive sold a few high dollar things on it and my BIGGEST fear when selling one of those items is what if the buyer claims that they never received it, or it was damaged, or whatever. I gave as much contact before and after the sale to make sure there werent any issues, but I dont deal in the volume that Steve deals in.

To make matters worse, this is Steve's business - his livelihood. While without a doubt he could have handled his communications better he did just about everything else right. Like you admitted:

Quote:


I will grant 100% that SBarger was _honest_ in this transaction, acted quickly to ship the product, and from a strict by-the-numbers accounting did the operations side of this transaction correctly.

Aside from ignoring the hostile posts, there wasnt much else he could do about them. Anytime he would try to defend his actions he was getting beat up and chasticed for poor customer service.

Since his intent was to reimburse Susan, he should have just ignored all the hostile posts and said that ... but it seems that he went the other way and did the best he could to try to let people know that he is an honest business man and is trying to make things right and explain why he did and acted the way that he did.

My wife has gotten caught on principle a couple of times, in her dealing on ebay. Obviously, Ive had to hear about how this lady that she bought $30 worth of crap from was trying to screw her off $10 from shipping, even though she explicitly asked if they were combinable to begin with .. blah blah blah.

I tell my wife that there are just people on ebay who are out to nickle and dime folks and make money on shipping and not to sweat it .. thats part of shopping on ebay. At NO time through reading Steve's posts did I get the impression that he was trying to nickel and dime, or to take advantage of the situation.

All I saw was that he ships promptly, tends to his problems (hence the mutually withdrawns), and cares about his reputation and goodwill (hence trying to defend his actions). If I am gonna buy a $3000 item on ebay from someone, I wouldnt feel uncomfortable at all buying from Steve.

Besides he is my brother. 8)

Well, not really .. but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn last night. 8)
post #222 of 246
Wow, what an epic. This is almost as good as the "My paint formula DIY screen" threads or "How many Bass traps can a room handle" threads.

I do not post often but felt I had to add what is most likely a redundant viewpoint but one I would like to share on the topic of Customer Service.

I recently worked as a Service Manager for a company that was lacking in customer service and had hired me specifically to improve the return rate of customers. The owner, whom reminds me very much of Steve, could not understand why return business was low when operationally, the business was quite sound.

What the owner lacked and what I percieve Steve to somewhat lack is a sense of customer viewpoint and empathy. When a situation arose in our business, I was constantly at odds with the Owner, as he would consistently tell me all that the company had done with the issue, which, while usually correct, would never take in the customer's feelings or show an attitude of "this is the problem, let's work together to fix it". His presentation was always"Here's what we did for you, the rest is up to you" or "Please prove to me that there is a problem". (Which, while his right, did not a pleasant day make)

We shifted the outlook for the entire company to be more a "We trust you that there is a problem and we will resolve it" Once a customer believes that you are willing to work as a team and not have to be confrontational just to acknowledge a problem exists, resolution is fast and both sides are satisfied.

Did we get screwed? Sometimes, but rarely from customers that would take advantage of our policy. Our benefits greatly outweighed the risks as we rose our return rate from 16% to over 72% in three years (this was for an Automotive Repair business). To me true customer satisfaction is not only referrals but to be the first choice for return business.

Steve, I would not hesitate to do business with you, (as I feel you did nothing operationally wrong in this transaction) and I believe the gift basket will go a long way to ammending this relationship, although I know it can be difficult knowing you will never have this customer again. For that fact alone I congratulate you taking this step. However, I believe you may need to lean on your wife more (I have a feeling it was her idea about the gift basket) in terms of trying to understand the psyche of a customer nervously entrusting you with what is a sizable online investment and how to deal with this customer when a problem arises.

As for QQQ, I wanted to know your customer service policy and warranty on the $700 "spot me a place in line for an RS-1" contest.

Now back to the epic "Is that really a white/offwhite grey blu-ray (NOT HD-DVD) bass trap DIY screen shootout special!!" thread I'm trying to create.
post #223 of 246
Thanks for your post Rookie Boy, a very good read.
post #224 of 246
I would have much rather have been able to ship Susan a replacement projector instead of being forced to only refund her. I think the projector at her door would have meant more than just a refund. I dont think she will take the offer, but I give her the opportunity. I can also offer her a special price of $175 less than she last paid and give her a free ceiling mount as well. On one note, I understand that she would not want to try it again. But on another note, the chances of this same thing happening again to her or anyone else are about 1,000,000 to 1. And she can rest assure this time as with last time, see will get either the projector or a full refund if anything does happen. This time with caring emails throughout the entire process. Just wanted to extend that offer as well. I will include that offer in my apology letter and care basket to her and her husband. Again, thanks for everyones support and sorry that everyone had to put up with this issue..
post #225 of 246
Wow what a read : )... I sympathize with both of you. DHL is the one that sucks here. I agree with Rokkie boy's and Catdaddy's posts (good read), Steve was really trying to convince people here that he is an honest business man, which I am convinced he is. Steve I won't hesitate to do business with you either, just have a little more empathy for your customers.
post #226 of 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by eme1 View Post

Wow what a read : )... I sympathize with both of you. DHL is the one that sucks here. I agree with Rokkie boy's and Catdaddy's posts (good read), Steve was really trying to convince people here that he is an honest business man, which I am convinced he is. Steve I won't hesitate to do business with you either, just have a little more empathy for your customers.


Well said and lesson learned. I guess part of it was being gun shy from a projector fraud issue in November that cost us $3500. Long story, but did make us overly cautious and watchful for any potential fraud. But as this turned out good for both, thank god for that. We have learned our lesson to wait for the absolute proof before making any accusations or assumptions.

I did get too caught up in trying to prove myself here instead of concentrating on how well my actions would be proof in itself. Less said would have been more.

For all of you that had to endure and suffer thru this process, I'd like to also take care of all of you. If you would like to purchase an HC5000 from me, I will knock $100 off of the price for anyone that tells me that they heard about me on AVS. ...thank you...Steve.
post #227 of 246
Good post Rookie Boy.
post #228 of 246
PS, Also I'd like to offer 10% off of your buttkicker purchase if you tell me you heard of me on AVS...thx....
post #229 of 246
AS nice as the offer is I don't think you can market/promote here without permission from AVS themselves.
post #230 of 246
wow! this has been an excellent thread. hey steve, i'd probably find someone other than dhl from now on.
post #231 of 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spizz View Post

AS nice as the offer is I don't think you can market/promote here without permission from AVS themselves.


Your probably right, sorry if so...
post #232 of 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvisneau View Post

wow! this has been an excellent thread. hey steve, i'd probably find someone other than dhl from now on.

Actually DHL in general has been excellent, far less issues than USPS. It was just the one bad apple, subcontracted delivery guy that probably saw the projector, the superbowl coming up, wasnt happy with his job and ready to quit anyway, and decided to create this scam and this nightmare for all of us. Hopefully they will arrest him and recover the projector. But after watching these police invetigation shows and the rediculous amount of evidence they need to prosecute, he will probably get away with it scott free.
post #233 of 246
Quote:


But after watching these police invetigation shows and the rediculous amount of evidence they need to prosecute, he will probably get away with it scott free.

Having seen CSI (in its various flavors) and Las Vegas (the TV show) a few times, I think Im qualified to say that with the GPS technology on the truck, and by tracking him on his cell phone calls from that infamous day, coupled with the signatures on the disputed deliveries, added to the fact that the hair they found on Susan's door was actually from her husband (and not the driver's) I believe it would be a slam dunk on the driver.
post #234 of 246
Well, the Saga continues. Apparently Susan did not drop the CC chargeback as she stated she did and it just hit my paypal account today..

PayPal Case ID:
PP-249-796-298
Reason for Dispute:
Non-Receipt
Chargeback Amount:
$3,067.00 USD
Chargeback Date:
Feb. 7, 2007
Status:
PayPal Disputing Claim
Status Details:
The buyer has chosen to file a chargeback with the card issuer. Because you have already done your part to help with this investigation by using our Resolution Center, you can consider this matter resolved.

You do not need to participate in this investigation; PayPal will deal directly with the credit card company on your behalf and will absorb any costs involved. However, we might email you at a later date with a request for more information about this transaction. If this happens, we will certainly appreciate your prompt response.


Seller Comments:


Dispute History Log - Most Recent 3
The Dispute History Log displays all actions related to your claim.
Date Actor Action Details
Feb. 7, 2007 PayPal Email sent to Seller.
Feb. 7, 2007 PayPal Email sent to Buyer.
Feb. 7, 2007 Buyer Chargeback initiated.
post #235 of 246
Whether its a chargeback or Paypal refunds her the money, I think the result is the same, no?

No harm, no foul. 8) She just got it back sooner.
post #236 of 246
I believe the only reasonable course of action left to take is to hire "Dog the Bounty Hunter" (A & E) to track down the delivery driver who has been illegally setting up "the Super Big Bowl Game" viewing parties where as a door prize a person could win a spot in line for the JVC RS-1 pre-buy.
As Dog bursts into the church, he is momentarily dazzled by the picture, being cast on a CG3/RSMAXMUD/Black Flame screen that, although not quite as good as a SS/DeltaBlu/Laminate screen (depending on screenshots, ambient light, wind conditions) can still beat BO cloth (except on 1080p/24 fed through a Gennum processor, yet equal if through an ABT Deinterlacing DVDO).
The delivery driver quickly bolts for the side door, however, he trips on a bass trap improperly set up (it only flattened frequencies between 20hrz and 23hrz) that had fallen across the doorway.
Dog captures the delivery driver, and shaking him like a LFE Buttkicker (now 10% off at select retailers) asks the question posed on the lips of many an HD-DVD-Blu-ray War CorrespondentWhy! Why! WHY!
The driver looks up with weary, bloodshot how high off the floor do I place the screen tearing eyes and answers with the only intelligent, reasonable statement in the whole ordeal

The lawyers, man. The lawyers made me do it

sorry for this. I am currently working on an Oil Project in Northern Alberta, Canada where the temperature outside is currently -33 degrees celcius and not much else going on. I do not in any way mean to degrade the thread, from which I think many learning's have been given and hopefully, applied.
post #237 of 246
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbarger View Post

Apparently Susan did not drop the CC chargeback as she stated she did

I DID call my credit card company yesterday, as already posted, and they said that as soon as a credit for the amount posts, the dispute is automatically dropped. Until then, I think it would be VERY premature to do anything else (my credit card bank even advised me not to), since I couldn't reinitiate a claim with either them, or Pay Pal. I checked my card online today and there is still no credit posted to my account, but I know that, for whatever reason, refunds can take a while to show up. (I'm not saying it won't happen, just that I won't take any chances until it's final.)
post #238 of 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catdaddy67 View Post

Whether its a chargeback or Paypal refunds her the money, I think the result is the same, no?

No harm, no foul. 8) She just got it back sooner.


Yes, I believe when her CC company sees that paypal closed the dispute and refunded her money, as I informed them to do, they will drop the CC chargeback as well.
post #239 of 246
Quote:


Yes, I believe when her CC company sees that paypal closed the dispute and refunded her money, as I informed them to do, they will drop the CC chargeback as well.

Ick, I didnt see that you got hit twice. Yeah, either way, Susan, Paypal and the credit card company wont let you take a negative.
post #240 of 246
What a monster thread...I have to stop hanging out at the CRT forums
We don't get anything like this.

Glad things worked out for you Susan.
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