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(1) Ficaraudio SSD18 vs. (2) Mach5 MJ18

post #1 of 41
1/31/07 at 3:08pm
Thread Starter 
If any of you had a choice between 18" subs, what would you do?

(qty:1) Ficaraudio SSD18
or
(qty:2) Mach5 MJ18

The sub(s) would be going behind the screen wall in a dedicated theater room measuring approx. 13'Wx25'Dx8'H. Size of enclosure will not matter but have ruled out IB (for now anyways). The sub(s) will be fed 500w. The sub will be used mostly for movies and I'd like to get as low and loud as possible.

Here are the specs of the choices:

Ficaraudio SSD18

Fs: 24.7 Hz | 24.3 Hz
Re: 0.75 Ohms/coil | 1.5 Ohms/coil
Qms: 4.88 | 4.96
Qes: .75 | .69
Qts: .65 | .61
Mms: 296g | 308g
Cms: 0.14mm/N | 0.14mm/N
Sd: 1210cm^2 | 1210cm^2
Vas: 285 l | 285 l
Spl: 89.4dB 1W/1m | 89.6dB 1W/1m
Bl: 9.3 N/A | 14.1 N/A
Xmax: 21mm
Rms: 800W
Sealed box: N/A cuft
Ported box: 6-10 cuft @ 33Hz
Sub OD: 18.500
Cut ID: 16.750
Mounting depth: 9.500
Displacement: 0.22cuft
Product code: 01918
Price: $ 239.00

Mach5 MJ18

Power Handling: 600 Watts
SPL (2.83v/1m): 93.4 db
Impedance: 8 or 4 Ohms nominal
T/S parameters - 8 / 4 Ohm:
Fs = 30.4 / 28 Hz
Re = 7.2 / 3.2 Ohms[dc]
Qt = 0.35 / 0.31
Qes = 0.39 / 0.34
Qms = 3.41 / 4.99
Mms = 219 / 229 grams
Rms = 12.3 / 8.1 kg/s
Cms = 0.100 / 0.14 mm/N
Vas = 243.8 / 208.4 liters
Sd= 1029.2 cm2
Bl = 27.6 / 19.6 Tm
Xmax = 12mm
Diameter= 36.20 cm
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post #2 of 41
1/31/07 at 7:34pm
The FI car audio driver.

Definitelty.
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post #3 of 41
1/31/07 at 8:15pm
IF you are comparing 2 to 1... then I would say right about even....

2 machs moving in unison would move slightly less air than 1 F1...


to calculate swept volume SDx Xmax x 2= SV...

for one F1....50820Cd

for 2 Machs.....49392Cd..



You rather get 2 15 inch tempests...which will move 50480cd....which is about dead even with 1 F1.
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post #4 of 41
2/1/07 at 7:10am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanaris View Post

IF you are comparing 2 to 1... then I would say right about even....

2 machs moving in unison would move slightly less air than 1 F1...


to calculate swept volume SDx Xmax x 2= SV...

for one F1....50820Cd

for 2 Machs.....49392Cd..



You rather get 2 15 inch tempests...which will move 50480cd....which is about dead even with 1 F1.

Here's a REALLY dumb question....

Who makes the tempest? Whould you be able to get me a website so that I can take a look at them also? Tax time is here and I just might go for 2 subs. I was looking at 18"'s but if 15"'s will kick my chest in just the same, then they are worth the look.
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post #5 of 41
2/1/07 at 7:32am
The Tempest Classic is a re-release of the famed driver sold by Adire Audio... I believe it is actually made for them by Eminence.

it can be purchased online from Acoustic Vision in the U.S.

http://www.acoustic-visions.com/~aco...mpest_classic/

or in Canada from CSS

http://www.creativesound.ca/details....pest%20Classic

I would mention that the gentlemen that run both this companies (Kyle at AV and Bob at CSS) have stellar reputations for customer support and business integrity.

GB
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post #6 of 41
2/1/07 at 2:58pm
I'll second that....
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post #7 of 41
2/1/07 at 5:27pm
How do those Tempest 15" compare to the Dayton HiFi 15"?? They are roughly the same price, what's the better buy?
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post #8 of 41
2/1/07 at 5:50pm
If you compare them to the Dayton 15" DVC Series Subwoofer


you will see that the Tempest is a better deal..and better sub... more Xmax..more power handling and bigger VC.... lower Fs .

Specs taken with voice coils in parallel.
Re 3.5 ohms

Le 2.9 mH

Qms 6.7

Mms 195 grams

Qes .40

Cms 0.374 mm/N

Qts .39

Fs 18.8 Hz

Sd 779 cm^2

Vas 317 liters

BL 14.2 N/A

Xmax 16.4 mm one way

EBP 47

SPL 89.1 dB @ 1W/1m

VC Dia. 2-1/2"

Power Rating 750W total
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post #9 of 41
2/1/07 at 11:45pm
But are they as good as THESE ones?

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=295-468
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post #10 of 41
2/2/07 at 3:39am
I don't know about those...but looking at the specs..they lack dual voice coils, less xmax .... but pretty close... I haven't seen too many of those in actual usage...so I can't tell for sure.

You are a stones throw away from the Canadian distrubutor of the Tempest..who is in Abbotsford... do you have a connection in getting stuff form Part Express without paying shipping and customs?Last time I ordered something from PE... it cost me more than double in shipping and customs... with Fedex...
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post #11 of 41
2/2/07 at 7:53am
Lacking dual voice coils is not a negative.
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post #12 of 41
2/2/07 at 11:33am
do you have a connection in getting stuff form Part Express without paying shipping and customs?Last time I ordered something from PE... it cost me more than double in shipping and customs... with Fedex...

Hey Kanaris, couldn't you get PE to ship USPS??? I always avoid UPS and FedEx like the PLAGUE man!! LOL!

Yeah, I'll be in Vancouver this weekend, we might just pick up 2 Tempests Classics while we're there!
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post #13 of 41
2/2/07 at 1:26pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willd View Post

Lacking dual voice coils is not a negative.

Hi Willd,

You've helped me before and because of this, I trust your judgement...

If you had a choice for a 13'Wx25'Dx8'H dedicated theater what would you choose:

(qty 1) 18" Ficaraudio SSD18
(qty 2) 18" Mach audio MJ18
(qty 2) 15" Tempest

The sub will be located behind the screen wall so size will not matter. Also, with your choice in sub, what amp and how much power would you use. Remember, I want the sub(s) to dig down really deep and loud.

FYI, I had build a sub with a 12" titanic and 500 BASH amp but it did not move me.
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post #14 of 41
2/2/07 at 4:13pm
I'd go with either the Tempests or Dayton HiFi's, then build big, tune low, and give them 200-300W per driver.

Edit: Or buy 4 of the dB-500 12" drivers on sale ($75 each), give them a total of around 650 liters, tuned to 14-15Hz with a 10" port, and 1200-1500W of power.

That looks real good.
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post #15 of 41
2/2/07 at 6:59pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willd View Post

I'd go with either the Tempests or Dayton HiFi's, then build big, tune low, and give them 200-300W per driver.

Edit: Or buy 4 of the dB-500 12" drivers on sale ($75 each), give them a total of around 650 liters, tuned to 14-15Hz with a 10" port, and 1200-1500W of power.

That looks real good.

Dude, The db-500's look really temping and at that price, I could toss 8 of them behind the wall in 2 separate enclosures with 4 db-500's each. That I think would really cave my chest in!!! YAY!!!

Now, onto the amp... 1200-1500 watts huh... time to goto partsexpress.com!

Thanks Willd... and as always, I'll keep everyone updated.

Edit: Modeling 2 15" Dayton Hi Fi's in a 800L box, they look like they dig down lower than the 4 db-500's in a 650L box. Am I reading WinISD correctly?
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post #16 of 41
2/2/07 at 7:32pm
The HiFi's have a shallower rolloff in the FR, thats all. Four dB-500's would be capable of over 60% more linear displacement than two 15" HiFi's.

As for the amp, I'd look at a pro amp or BKA-1000 depending on which drivers you choose and how many you get.
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post #17 of 41
2/3/07 at 9:19am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willd View Post

The HiFi's have a shallower rolloff in the FR, thats all. Four dB-500's would be capable of over 60% more linear displacement than two 15" HiFi's.

As for the amp, I'd look at a pro amp or BKA-1000 depending on which drivers you choose and how many you get.

Ahhhh... I see grasshopper.

I think I'll go with 8 db-500's in 2 separate boxes. I'm looking at the Behringer EP1500. The price is right and it's capable of 1400 @ 4 ohms bridged.

I'll start ordering everything starting with the subs when I get back from vacation coming up the week after.

Thanks again!!!
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post #18 of 41
2/3/07 at 11:03am
Something tells me that TC Sounds will either be sold out or the drivers wont be on sale anymore, by then.

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post #19 of 41
2/3/07 at 1:28pm
Spend the extra $70 and step up to the Fi Q18. One of those has nearly the displacement of 3 Tempests. Scott can even cusomize the TS parameters for you to best fit your application as well.
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post #20 of 41
2/3/07 at 3:59pm
Yeah, but can the Fi Q18 go low? Like <20Hz low?
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post #21 of 41
2/3/07 at 4:58pm
None of them can go as low as the Tempest.. ..
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post #22 of 41
2/3/07 at 5:07pm
Didn't think so.....thanks Kanaris.
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post #23 of 41
2/3/07 at 5:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Favelle View Post

Yeah, but can the Fi Q18 go low? Like <20Hz low?

As low as any other sub with Fs around 20Hz. The 27mm xmax is really what makes the spl down low. How low the sub goes and at what SPL level is determined by the enclosure.
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post #24 of 41
2/3/07 at 7:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Favelle View Post

Didn't think so.....thanks Kanaris.



The above quoted drivers (F18 and Mach5) have Fs of 24.7 and 28 compared to the Tempests 18.8....




As well the F18 is stated as having an XMAX of 21.... unless its a misprint... and not 27.
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post #25 of 41
2/3/07 at 7:41pm
Kanaris - Favelle said "Q18" and the Q18 driver does indeed have an xmax of 27mm.
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post #26 of 41
2/3/07 at 8:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willd View Post

Kanaris - Favelle said "Q18" and the Q18 driver does indeed have an xmax of 27mm.



You are right...I was looking at the other 18 inchers F1 makes....


The Q18 is one helleva sub.
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post #27 of 41
2/3/07 at 8:09pm
Indeed, it is definitely one that should be considered.
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post #28 of 41
2/4/07 at 10:04am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willd View Post

Indeed, it is definitely one that should be considered.

Well, just got back from a batchelors party this morning and for some reason, the first thing I did was compare prices of the following:

(Qty: 8) TC Sounds 12" db-500 ($760 shipped)
(Qty: 2) Ficaraudio 18" SSD18 ($478 shipped)
(Qty: 2) Ficaraudio 18" Q18 ($618 shipped)

Which one of the 3 choices would you go with? Amp will be a Behringer EP1500.

I think everyone is going to say to go with (2) Q18's... but I just want to make sure.
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post #29 of 41
2/4/07 at 2:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky08016 View Post

Well, just got back from a batchelors party this morning and for some reason, the first thing I did was compare prices of the following:

(Qty: 8) TC Sounds 12" db-500 ($760 shipped)
(Qty: 2) Ficaraudio 18" SSD18 ($478 shipped)
(Qty: 2) Ficaraudio 18" Q18 ($618 shipped)

Which one of the 3 choices would you go with? Amp will be a Behringer EP1500.

I think everyone is going to say to go with (2) Q18's... but I just want to make sure.


WOW, No real reason to go with 2 Fi 18's unless you have an IB or you want to get extreme bass. That's a heck of a lot of displacement.

A single Q18 for $309 shipped will equal almost 3 tempests.

Here are the modified specs after Scott does his magic on the Q18's:


Single 4 ohm coil

>> Re 2.8 Ohms
>> Fs 22.0 Hz
>> Qms 5.44
>> Qes .56
>> Qts .51
>> Mms 345
>> Cms 1.52X10^-4 m/N
>> Vas 310.2 l
>> SD 1210 cm^2
>> Bl 15.41
>> SPL 89.6 1W/1m

Xmax of 27mm


These were modified for IB use. Check with him to see what would work best in a ported or sealed box for Home Theater given your specific situation.

According to him, the stock Q18's have too stiff a suspension for normal home use... they were designed for ulitimate car use with extremely high power and SPL capabilities.
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post #30 of 41
2/4/07 at 4:08pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff lam View Post

WOW, No real reason to go with 2 Fi 18's unless you have an IB or you want to get extreme bass. That's a heck of a lot of displacement.

A single Q18 for $309 shipped will equal almost 3 tempests.

Here are the modified specs after Scott does his magic on the Q18's:


Single 4 ohm coil

>> Re 2.8 Ohms
>> Fs 22.0 Hz
>> Qms 5.44
>> Qes .56
>> Qts .51
>> Mms 345
>> Cms 1.52X10^-4 m/N
>> Vas 310.2 l
>> SD 1210 cm^2
>> Bl 15.41
>> SPL 89.6 1W/1m

Xmax of 27mm


These were modified for IB use. Check with him to see what would work best in a ported or sealed box for Home Theater given your specific situation.

According to him, the stock Q18's have too stiff a suspension for normal home use... they were designed for ulitimate car use with extremely high power and SPL capabilities.

The reason for "over doing" the subs is because due to the large size, the enclosure will be located beuind the screen wall but the screen wall would have to built around the sub enclosure which means that I need to get this right first before proceeding with the construction of the screen wall.

Based on your information, I can try (1) Q18 first to see how that goes.

Do you have Scott's email address or his contact information so that I can go over my project with him?
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