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BLU-RAY SALES THREAD: Put all sales figures and comments here! - Page 8  

post #211 of 11556
Quote:
Originally Posted by eurotrance View Post

Let's all meet again when PS3 has a bunch of good games available. I have to agree the titles announcements on HD-DVD are anemic, however I also believe that many PS3 owners at the moment buy BR because they're done playing RFOM. What else are you going to do with your PS3 right now if not watching BR movies ? Collect dust ?

Gran Turismo HD is a free download. This game would've sold 200k by now had it been for sale for $9.99 or something. There's also several downloadable games that a really nice. Trust me, I beat Fall of Man back in december. Since my PS3 is in my bedroom and my Samsung in my living room, I watch most of my BD on the Samsung. There's enough online content to tidy me over until the Feb and March games arrive.

Thus, I don't buy that PS3 owners are buying Blu-ray because there's no content. They are buying Blu-ray because they choose to over DVD. Remember, one could also argue that the reason Blu-ray sales aren't even higher is because PS3 owners are holding onto their money until more games arrive.
post #212 of 11556
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sketcha View Post

I've said this many, many times. I, personally know a lot of gamers that are saving their pennies to buy the PS3 when the titles really start rolling out. For many, this is March.

Yes, people will switch their budget to games for awhile around this time, BUT, there will be a whole lot more PS3s sold and many of those buyers will, at least eventually, at least start renting BDs.

I agree. This makes sense to me. As you point out, when games are released, Sony will need to sell a lot more units (PS3) to achieve the same quantity of movie sales - since the the avg. rate of new movie purchases will slow down. This is the same concept as you can make the same revenue by selling a lot of products with a low avg. price, or a few units with high avg. price. Nothing new. This should be factored in....

On the flip side, perhaps xbox owners will have their fill of GOW and FP and start looking to buy movies for their player....we'll see.

Basically, the evidence suggests the war is far from settled.
post #213 of 11556
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortom View Post

Currently, I own 2 Playstation 3 games, Resistance: The Fall of Man, and EA Sports' Fight Night. I will buy more as new interesting titles become available. I also own around 75 Blu-ray films (need to count again). I have several other friends with Playstation 3 consoles. All own one or two games and many movies. I expect that I will always own more Blu-ray discs than I will own games, just as I owned more DVDs than Playstation games.

/carmi

Wow, good point!
post #214 of 11556
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sketcha View Post

I've said this many, many times. I, personally know a lot of gamers that are saving their pennies to buy the PS3 when the titles really start rolling out. For many, this is March.

Yes, people will switch their budget to games for awhile around this time, BUT, there will be a whole lot more PS3s sold and many of those buyers will, at least eventually, at least start renting BDs.


I fall into this category.I plan on getting a PS3 in March coinciding with the release of Casino royale.For some reason,I've suddenly become more interested in PS3 as a blueray player versus for games.The announcement of Casino Royale in HD has me more excited than any game announcements for PS3.I'm also a 360 owner,so maybe I'm just not impressed by anything Sony has shown me gamewise yet.
post #215 of 11556
This chart serves no purpose other than to make you feel better about whatever format you support. When your format is ahead, yay, time to be happy, but when it's behind, well, the numbers aren't accurate or time will tell, etc...

Both Hd-DVD and blu-ray have so much invested in their respective formats that this format war will not be settled for a long time. It's sad that we have to own both formats to get all of the titles we want, but at least the competition is possibly forcing the studios to release more titles, at lower prices, and offer better quality features. I just hope that all of the studios will support and release discs for both formats.

I personally do not give a flying f who wins, I want to be able to own all titles out there and play them on one player that doesn't cost more than $250 and so does J6P.
post #216 of 11556
Quote:
Originally Posted by plazman View Post

I agree. This makes sense to me. As you point out, when games are released, Sony will need to sell a lot more units (PS3) to achieve the same quantity of movie sales - since the the avg. rate of new movie purchases will slow down. This is the same concept as you can make the same revenue by selling a lot of products with a low avg. price, or a few units with high avg. price. Nothing new. This should be factored in....

On the flip side, perhaps xbox owners will have their fill of GOW and FP and start looking to buy movies for their player....we'll see.

Basically, the evidence suggests the war is far from settled.

Yes, but I also said awhile. By that I meant "short term" as xbdestroya said above.

The net, long term effect will likely be pretty heavy. And I think the BD exclusive studios see this too.

JMHO
post #217 of 11556
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonyeuw View Post

I fall into this category.I plan on getting a PS3 in March coinciding with the release of Casino royale.For some reason,I've suddenly become more interested in PS3 as a blueray player versus for games.The announcement of Casino Royale in HD has me more excited than any game announcements for PS3.I'm also a 360 owner,so maybe I'm just not impressed by anything Sony has shown me gamewise yet.

Do you have the add-on?
post #218 of 11556
Quote:
Originally Posted by JulesH View Post

This chart serves no purpose other than to make you feel better about whatever format you support. When your format is ahead, yay, time to be happy, but when it's behind, well, the numbers aren't accurate or time will tell, etc...

Both Hd-DVD and blu-ray have so much invested in their respective formats that this format war will not be settled for a long time. It's sad that we have to own both formats to get all of the titles we want, but at least the competition is possibly forcing the studios to release more titles, at lower prices, and offer better quality features. I just hope that all of the studios will support and release discs for both formats.

I personally do not give a flying f who wins, I want to be able to own all titles out there and play them on one player that doesn't cost more than $250 and so does J6P.

What many people on this thread are saying is that they still believe the chart is slanted HD DVD and would show a bigger BD lead if it were not. They are saying that this chart, used by the HD DVD camp in the past can no longer slant the numbers enough to counter what's going on with BD.

Personally, I have no idea, but that's what they're saying.
post #219 of 11556
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sketcha View Post

Do you have the add-on?

Yes I bought it for $159 for circuit city back in November.It was somewhat of an impulse buy,I went in there looking for a small LCD tv for my parents and saw the add-on sitting there.If that scenario happened TODAY,I'm not sure I'd have bought the add-on.But it's here in my living room,with King Kong(included with addon)Batman Begins(purchased) and Bourne Supremacy(gift).
post #220 of 11556
Quote:
Originally Posted by JulesH View Post

This chart serves no purpose other than to make you feel better about whatever format you support. When your format is ahead, yay, time to be happy, but when it's behind, well, the numbers aren't accurate or time will tell, etc...

Both Hd-DVD and blu-ray have so much invested in their respective formats that this format war will not be settled for a long time. It's sad that we have to own both formats to get all of the titles we want, but at least the competition is possibly forcing the studios to release more titles, at lower prices, and offer better quality features. I just hope that all of the studios will support and release discs for both formats.

I personally do not give a flying f who wins, I want to be able to own all titles out there and play them on one player that doesn't cost more than $250 and so does J6P.

Oh, and P.S. I agree that the competition, as long as it serves no detriment to HD vs. SD, has been a good thing for HD optical.
post #221 of 11556
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonyeuw View Post

Yes I bought it for $159 for circuit city back in November.It was somewhat of an impulse buy,I went in there looking for a small LCD tv for my parents and saw the add-on sitting there.If that scenario happened TODAY,I'm not sure I'd have bought the add-on.But it's here in my living room,with King Kong(included with addon)Batman Begins(purchased) and Bourne Supremacy(gift).

How do you like it?

Personally, I'm way to big a sound guy to go down that road.
post #222 of 11556
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sketcha View Post

How do you like it?

Personally, I'm way to big a sound guy to go down that road.

I'm happy with the PQ.I have no issues with the sound, but I'm not a really big sound person persay.

Having said that,I had just bought an HD plasma and naturally wanted some HD content.Having already bought a 360 months before,the add-on was the cheapest option(the $40 CC coupon helped too) for me.

However, there are too many movies I want coming on blu-ray to simply ignore.The fact that I also want PS3 for games(when they come out) makes it a simple choice to invest in it. I can't jusitfy paying that much for a machine if I only wanted to play games OR movies on it,but using it for games AND movies,I can justify it.
post #223 of 11556
Quote:
Originally Posted by eightninesuited View Post

Gran Turismo HD is a free download. This game would've sold 200k by now had it been for sale for $9.99 or something. There's also several downloadable games that a really nice. Trust me, I beat Fall of Man back in december. Since my PS3 is in my bedroom and my Samsung in my living room, I watch most of my BD on the Samsung. There's enough online content to tidy me over until the Feb and March games arrive.

Thus, I don't buy that PS3 owners are buying Blu-ray because there's no content. They are buying Blu-ray because they choose to over DVD. Remember, one could also argue that the reason Blu-ray sales aren't even higher is because PS3 owners are holding onto their money until more games arrive.

I'll give you another example that I agree doesn't mean it can be applied to the general situation but is just as significant as your personal case. The guy I sold my PS3 to is a friend I visit about once a week. I sold it to him with 12 BR movies and 1 game (ROFM). I asked him last time if he had bought any movies for it and his reply was : "sure these BR movies look a bit better than my DVDs, but not that much better to justify the price difference". He also added : "I didn't buy your PS3 for the movies, I bought it 'cause my PS2 crapped out and I'd rather buy a PS3 for the games that I'm really waiting for and still be able to play my PS2 ones".

Again, this is only one example among hundreds of thousands, but honestly, once a certain group of people like the audio-video enthusiasts have their "cheap" BR player need met by PS3, I believe the vast majority of future PS3 buyers will buy it for its games, especially as the stand alone BR players start really coming down in price to match PS3's.

Either way, all this is speculation. My point is that this format war could go 2 ways :

1) BR wins all, HD-DVD goes away
2) HD-DVD & BR stay, as Total HD and dual players start coming out in numbers

IMO it is still way too early to tell.
post #224 of 11556
Quote:
Originally Posted by xbdestroya View Post

Gamers have bought movies in the past, and will continue to do so in the future. I'm not sure I understand why games and film are viewed as mutually exclusive by so many here on the forums. When there's a movie one wants, one gets it. When there's a game one wants, one gets it. It's the 'maybe' situations such as Guardian where perhaps some money will be left on the table. But I know of few in the PS3 demographic that would be any less excited for Casino Royale in HD than for upcoming game classic MGS4.

bingo! Always have enjoyed games and movies, never been mutually exclusive as many HD-DVD fans would like people to believe.
post #225 of 11556
Quote:
Originally Posted by plazman View Post

OTOH, what happens when we get a slew of top rated games on the PS3?

We will see many more Playstation 3 consoles sold. We will also see fewer movies sold to Playstation 3 console owners. However, I expect that the former will be more important than the latter.

Quote:


Would we have significant switching from movies to games, or will we be stuck with a significant number of PS3 consoles where movies crowd out games. Wouldn't that lower the expected profits from each console sold for Sony?

Most gamers I know have more DVDs than video games, but what really matters to Sony is over all content sold (both games and Sony Blu-ray discs). Sony makes money on its own Blu-content.

Quote:


The PS3 is the best value for a BD player. So to me it isn't clear IF Sony can sustain the PS3 if millions are being bought to play movies and where movies purchases are crowding out games! It really is a trade off for Sony.

I agree that Playstation 3 consoles are the best Blu-ray players sold right now. Every one that enables Sony to sell more Blu-ray movies is helping Sony Corporation's profit.

Quote:


It'll be interesting to see how the economics of this plays out.

Yes it will. This is a game on many levels. Sony wants Playstation 3 to be successful as a game platform. It wants Blu-ray to be successful as a content platform. Finally, it wants Blu-ray to be successful as a data platform. I find it funny that people applauded Toshiba's subsidy of their A1, but suggest that Sony's subsidy of the Playstation 3 is bad. Sony has two direct sources of additional revenue from Playstation 3 purchasers: games and Sony movies. Toshiba has only royalties from HD DVD patents. I am willing to bet that Sony makes more from each Sony movie sold than Toshiba makes on each HD DVD sold.

Quote:


I'd expect the full fall out of a success or failure of their strategy to be clear sometime by Q3 of this year. JMHO.

I would be very surprised if the success or failure of their strategy is known by Q3, unless HD DVD folds by then (something that would surprise me).


Quote:


Clearly, MSFT took the low risk approach

Certainly true.

/carmi
post #226 of 11556
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sketcha View Post

How do you like it?

Personally, I'm way to big a sound guy to go down that road.

same here. I tried it out at a friends house and while the PQ is great and it is easy to use (much faster than the A1) the SQ just didn't match up. I would have bought one for myself if it had.
post #227 of 11556
Quote:
Originally Posted by eurotrance View Post

Again, this is only one example among hundreds of thousands, but honestly, once a certain group of people like the audio-video enthusiasts have their "cheap" BR player need met by PS3

"Once" ? You're implying that there's a finite pool but that just isn't the case. There will always be demand for the PS3 as a cheap BD player. You did concede that cheaper standalones could effect that, but no standalone offers the same resale value as a PS3 if BD fails. Depending on your audio set up and needs a stand alone might be worth getting if it decoded DTS-MA/TrueHD and was $400
post #228 of 11556
Can someone explain exactly why Sony can put out a fully functioning Bluray player,and by many accounts a GOOD BR player, as low as $499 in the PS3 which has other functions,yet can't release a machine that ONLY plays movies for less than they're currently selling for?I'm still trying to figure that out....
post #229 of 11556
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonyeuw View Post

Can someone explain exactly why Sony can put out a fully functioning Bluray player,and by many accounts a GOOD BR player, as low as $499 in the PS3 which has other functions,yet can't release a machine that ONLY plays movies for less than they're currently selling for?I'm still trying to figure that out....

Because Sony does not want to burn their CE partners in the standalone space by pursuing the same subsidization/on-the-cheap strategy as Toshiba. PS3 loses Sony hundreds of dollars per unit, has a strategy premised on selling into a high-volume space, and forms the lynchpin for the development of a number of leading-edge technologies within the Sony corporation.
post #230 of 11556
Dragon, the PS3 is subsidised by about $200 like all PS and both Xbox's were. Nintendo don't subsidise. I'm not sure if that's what you were asking but if it was that's the answer. Sony probably make a small profit on their BD player although that's probably pays back the R&D development
post #231 of 11556
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonyeuw View Post

Can someone explain exactly why Sony can put out a fully functioning Bluray player,and by many accounts a GOOD BR player, as low as $499 in the PS3 which has other functions,yet can't release a machine that ONLY plays movies for less than they're currently selling for?I'm still trying to figure that out....


Volume cannot be matched. 1 million PS3s in 2 months and there are really no games worth buying. That number will continue to climb as more games and more BD movies hit the market.
post #232 of 11556
Quote:
Originally Posted by xbdestroya View Post

Because Sony does not want to burn their CE partners in the standalone space by pursuing the same subsidization/on-the-cheap strategy as Toshiba. PS3 loses Sony hundreds of dollars per unit, has a strategy premised on selling into a high-volume space, and forms the lynchpin for the development of a number of leading-edge technologies within the Sony corporation.

Yeah I understand that.I am curious as to why would someone spend $1000 on a BR player with one half that price on the market,which ALSO plays video games.I know on a forum like this,playing movies on anything but a specialized player is a no-no,but that's an HT enthusiast's viewpoint.I don't think your average J6P has ideals like that.
post #233 of 11556
Quote:
Originally Posted by briankmonkey View Post

same here. I tried it out at a friends house and while the PQ is great and it is easy to use (much faster than the A1) the SQ just didn't match up. I would have bought one for myself if it had.

If you have the PS3 hooked up via HDMI there should be no difference in sound quality. Correct?
post #234 of 11556
Normally CE products have MSRP roughly 3X the BOM (material cost to manufacturer in building the box).

This is required to keep all the people in the foodchain healthy (overheads to take care of, salaries of engineers, marketing, retail store utilities, salaries of salespeople, etc etc).

When you pay someone to install your fences or any home renovation, the typical markup is at least the cost of materials for the cheapest workers. IE: 2Xlumber costs is typically what you pay to put in a simple fence.

Game consoles work under a different model - they are closer to the mobile phone business model --- heavily subsidized and returns amortized over the future revenues either via monthly fee or in this case, games royalties (or to a smaller extent, movie disks).

PCs work on a smaller markup as everybody is squeezed to be lean and mean every cycle.
post #235 of 11556
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo1965 View Post

Normally CE products have MSRP roughly 3X the BOM (material cost to manufacturer in building the box).

This is required to keep all the people in the foodchain healthy (overheads to take care of, salaries of engineers, marketing, retail store utilities, salaries of salespeople, etc etc).

Game consoles work under a different model - they are closer to the mobile phone business model --- heavily subsidized and returns amortized over the future revenues either via monthly fee or in this case, games royalties (or to a smaller extent, movie disks).

PCs work on a smaller markup as everybody is squeezed to be lean and mean every cycle.

Yeah I got ya,I have to admit I have a very joe six packish mindset sometimes.
post #236 of 11556
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonyeuw View Post

Yeah I got ya,I have to admit I have a very joe six packish mindset sometimes.

For more esoteric or elite CE products, the multiplier is usually a lot higher. And the really low vol expensive stuff can be murder as you know from some speakers and amplifiers going around nowadays. More R&D costs to recoup.
post #237 of 11556
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonyeuw View Post

Can someone explain exactly why Sony can put out a fully functioning Bluray player,and by many accounts a GOOD BR player, as low as $499 in the PS3 which has other functions,yet can't release a machine that ONLY plays movies for less than they're currently selling for?I'm still trying to figure that out....

Unless you work for Sony in the proper department, nobody can answer this question authoritatively or accurately.

I work for a large manufacturer. Each division and product groups within those divisions usually can decide for themselves how they want to price their product offering and manage profit and loss. So go-to-market strategies will never be the same across a large company. Especially one the size of Sony.

And as is the case across many industries, the manufacturer can afford to take a loss on a specific product sale if that product drives the sales of some other profitable, high-margin product or service. In the case of the PS3, clearly it drives the sales of games; which are very profitable and can be reasonably expected to sell in high volume.

When and if BD-Java is ever exploited to its full potential and suddenly that standalone BD player is capable of being an Internet portal and drives the sales of products and services to consumers, prices will drop substantially.
post #238 of 11556
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptelles View Post

When and if BD-Java is ever exploited to its full potential and suddenly that standalone BD player is capable of being an Internet portal and drives the sales of products and services to consumers, prices will drop substantially.

Do you mean, as soon as Sony is able to use BD-J to bombard us with useless unsolicited advertisements, the prices of the players will drop dramatically?

.....probably will sneak in a root-kit too?
post #239 of 11556
Quote:
Originally Posted by phansson View Post

If you have the PS3 hooked up via HDMI there should be no difference in sound quality. Correct?

Yes, but we were discussing the 360 add-on. No HDMI, nor analog outs.
post #240 of 11556
Wireless what's up man?

Too much BD love in this thread for you to handle?

(Besides, that's obviously not what he meant and you full know it.)
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