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Dwin HD-500 / HDDVD Player compatibility?

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 
OK, this is about the third thread I've posted in a few different areas of the forum. Sorry about the repetition, but I am trying to find a solution to my problem as inexpensively as possible.

OK, here's my dilemma. I have a Dwin HD-500 CRT projector. It utilizes 5 BNC inputs (Red, Green, Blue, H/C Sync, Vertical Sync). It is an RGB/Sync monitor, which means it requires an external, a line doubler, line quadrupler, or chroma decoder for video playback.

When I purchased this projector, it came with the LD-5 line doubler. This unit offered component inputs and an RGBS input. When I had this scaler, I was able to get hi-def from my Dishnet receiver, the 6000. This receiver actually had an RGB output, so I was able to connect it directly to the RGBS input on the doubler.

A year ago, my LD-5 died, and I bought a cheap LD-2 line doubler on ebay. It has no component inputs -- only S-Video, so I am not currently able to get HD.

My new problem is I want to utilize my Toshiba A1 HD-DVD player on my projector, but I currently have no component inputs. The LD-5, although offering component inputs, would not work because that unit did not detect an HD source from component -- it would attempt to scale the HD signal and that would result in a scrambled picture. Dwin makes a processor called the Transcanner 2, which offers 2 component inputs which detect for an HD signal. I've had no luck finding a used machine, however.

So, to summarize, I need a device that will enable the HD signal through component output to work with my projector which has 5 BNC inputs (though I think it works with fewer BNC inputs - I know they are not all necessary). I am not that tecnically adept which is why I pose the question here where all the knowledgable folks abide. There were some helpful folks on the video scaler forum that offred some advice, but they also recommended I try in the projector area. As I said, I am trying to get the least-expensive methodto attain my needs, as I don't really need a scaler at all. The only inputs I will use to my projector will be the HD-DVD player & the Dishnet VIP211 HD receiver. The inputs can be either component, DVI, or HDMI, or any combination of those, as long as the BNC outputs are available.

Thanks in advance for any help & suggestions.
post #2 of 29
You really should search. Surely you cannot believe that since every CRT PJ has 5 BNC inputs and the HD DVD players have been out for almost a year you are the very first person to ask this?!?!?!?

You need this:
http://www.crescendo-systems.com/rev_transcoder.html

Search for more detailed info or if you want to use it to also upscale SD DVDs.

Dave
post #3 of 29
Thread Starter 
Hi Dave. Someone already suggested the same device on my other thread, but I was unsure it would work. Are there other deviced / cables / switchers I would need with this unit? I'm trying to contact the company by phone, but it doesn't list a number.

I'm just trying to get this to work right. I have done multiple searches but I'm just not that technical and a lot of the responses aren't easy to follow.
post #4 of 29
Thread Starter 
BTW, what do you mean when you mentioned upscaling DVD's? Would this funtion of the A1 be lost using this device?
post #5 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Black View Post

Are there other deviced / cables / switchers I would need with this unit?

Just component cables and a VGA to 5 BNC cable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Black View Post

I'm trying to contact the company by phone, but it doesn't list a number.

It is because it is not a big operation. It is an electrical engineer that does this stuff as a hobby on the side because he enjoys it. You can use any component to RGBHV transcoder, this just happens to be the best one available.

If you want to contact him, send a PM to "buen" here at AVS.

Dave
post #6 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Black View Post

BTW, what do you mean when you mentioned upscaling DVD's? Would this funtion of the A1 be lost using this device?

It is illegal for a device to upscale SD DVDs past 480p on component output. Therefore, no devices other than some Chinese DVD players to this.

To use the HD-A1 as your upscaling DVD player, you need a DVI to VGA or HDMI to VGA transcoder. Standalone ones (which you need) are kind of gray market items.

Dave
post #7 of 29
Thread Starter 
Thanks for all your help Dave. I sent an email to Crescendo through their website. I will get on this ASAP.
post #8 of 29
Thread Starter 
Funny - you mentioned a DVI to VGA transcoder. I actually have a DVI to VGA converter that I had been using to allow playback of my upconverting Samsung DVD player when I still had the RGBS input on my LD-5 working. However, when i tried to connect the Toshiba to this device (along with a HDMI / DVI adapter), the display read "HDMI error". I guess I was trying to accomplish too much.
post #9 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Black View Post

Funny - you mentioned a DVI to VGA transcoder. I actually have a DVI to VGA converter that I had been using to allow playback of my upconverting Samsung DVD player

What device (band/model/look, etc) and what Samsung DVD player? If you tell me, I might know why or how to make it work (if possible).

Dave
post #10 of 29
There were like 3 TRANSCANNERS on EBAY this past week.
post #11 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic C View Post

There were like 3 TRANSCANNERS on EBAY this past week.


I've checked ebay every day for 2 months. I have only seen 1 transcanner 2 (which I was bidding on) that ended Sunday night for $511. Everything else has been an LD-2, which I currently own.


Dave,

My upconverting player that I previously used is a Samsung HD841. I had the DVI output going into a DVI - VGA converter that I bought online a couple of years ago. It worked excellent through this process, into the RGBS input of the LD-5. Then the scaler crapped out on me and I had to buy the LD-2 on ebay.

I do have concerns that this transcoder will not allow me to continue to upconvert standard DVD's with the Toshiba HD-A1. It does a very good job at upconverting, and I have an extensive library still of DVD's. Are there other options that could utilize my DVI - VGA converter and allow me to continue getting upconverted DVD's, along with HD-DVD playback? If not, I'll settle for HD playback only. Thanks again.

Bob
post #12 of 29
once you get the wiring and accessories right you should get an OPPO for SD-DVD (upconvert via component) and use the Toshiba for HDDVD via component.
post #13 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOBBY DIGITAL View Post

once you get the wiring and accessories right you should get an OPPO for SD-DVD (upconvert via component) and use the Toshiba for HDDVD via component.

Frankly, I'd rather spend the price of the oppo to just get a DVI input since the Toshiba does better than the Oppo at scaling.

Dave
post #14 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Black View Post

I
My upconverting player that I previously used is a Samsung HD841.

I'm not a fan of those Samsungs, I don't think their upconverting is very good, but here is how you make it upconvert via component:

Turning off HDCP on the 841:

1. Turn your television ON
2. Turn the DVD Player ON
(You should see the Samsung screen saver appear on the TV)
3. Ensure the DVD tray is EMPTY and CLOSED
4. Wait for the message 'NO DISC' to appear

IMPORTANT: Use the remote control supplied
with the player to perform the following functions:

5. Press the ANGLE button
6. Press the numbers 4, 3, 2, 7
(You should see the message 'HDCP Free' appear in the upper
left hand corner of your television screen)
7. Press the OPEN/CLOSE button to open the disc tray

Your DVD player is now region-free and HDCP-free. Use the HDMI SEL button on the remote to choose the resolution.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Black View Post

I had the DVI output going into a DVI - VGA converter that I bought online a couple of years ago. It worked excellent through this process

Again, can you tell me what it is? What brand and model. What does it look like? You can post a picture or something if you want, or just tell me what the labels say.

As for other DVI transcoders that will make your HD-A1 upconvert SD DVDs, they range in price from a little over $100 to almost $300. If you are interested in those, PM me.

Dave
post #15 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Person99 View Post

I'm not a fan of those Samsungs, I don't think their upconverting is very good, but here is how you make it upconvert via component:

Turning off HDCP on the 841:

1. Turn your television ON
2. Turn the DVD Player ON
(You should see the Samsung screen saver appear on the TV)
3. Ensure the DVD tray is EMPTY and CLOSED
4. Wait for the message 'NO DISC' to appear

IMPORTANT: Use the remote control supplied
with the player to perform the following functions:

5. Press the ANGLE button
6. Press the numbers 4, 3, 2, 7
(You should see the message 'HDCP Free' appear in the upper
left hand corner of your television screen)
7. Press the OPEN/CLOSE button to open the disc tray

Your DVD player is now region-free and HDCP-free. Use the HDMI SEL button on the remote to choose the resolution.




Again, can you tell me what it is? What brand and model. What does it look like? You can post a picture or something if you want, or just tell me what the labels say.

As for other DVI transcoders that will make your HD-A1 upconvert SD DVDs, they range in price from a little over $100 to almost $300. If you are interested in those, PM me.

Dave

Hi Dave. I finally had a chance to snap a photo of the converter, so here it is. If I remember correctly, I think I bought this from a company called keydigital, but I may be mistaken. It worked great with my Samsung upconverting DVD player when I still had the LD-5 with component input.

Thanks again for all the help.
LL
LL
post #16 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Black View Post

Hi Dave. I finally had a chance to snap a photo of the converter, so here it is. If I remember correctly, I think I bought this from a company called keydigital, but I may be mistaken. It worked great with my Samsung upconverting DVD player when I still had the LD-5 with component input.

Thanks again for all the help.

That is the dtrovision dc-da1. You probably bought it from digital connection. This should work with the HD DVD player. There are other solutions I like better, but this works.

You can buy Kim's tcoder for component transcoding and hook the ouput of this device to the RGB input of kim's for HDMI/DVI transcoding. You'll be set.

Or, did you say this broke?

Dave
post #17 of 29
OK, I read back through the thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Black View Post

However, when i tried to connect the Toshiba to this device (along with a HDMI / DVI adapter), the display read "HDMI error". I guess I was trying to accomplish too much.

Ah ha. The Toshiba is picky. Do this:
1) If by adapter, you mean a little female HDMI to male DVI thing, then the first step is to get an HDMI to DVI cable. Those adapters are problematic with the Toshiba. A very good reasonably priced cable can be had here:
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/dvi/index.htm
Get the BJC Series-2 DVI to HDMI Cable

2) If you are using the DVI box without the AC adapter--don't. Use the A/C adapter. Plug in the HDMI to DVI cable to both devices, then plug the DVI box into the wall, then and ONLY then, turn on the Toshiba.

Dave
post #18 of 29
Thread Starter 
Dave,

You've been a great help! I just purchased the HDMI/DVI cable from the company you recommended. I will also buy the transcoder from crescendo.

So let me go over this one more time for accuracy -- I will connect the Toshiba HDMI out to the HDMI / DVI cable. This cable will then feed into the transcoder from Crescendo. Then, the VGA output on the transcoder to a VGA / 5-BNC cable directly to the projector? Is this right? Will I not utilize the scaler at all? I just want to make sure I have all this right before I buy the transcoder.

Also, since you seem to know absolutely everything about HT -- I also have the B&K Reference 20 as my processor. Will this be able to give me the TruHD 5.1 audio from the Toshiba A1? I'm assuming it will, but I need to hook it up correctly if it is compatible.

Thanks again for all your help. You're quickly becoming my new best friend.
post #19 of 29
Thread Starter 
One more thing -- where do you recommend I get the VGA / 5-BNC cable?
post #20 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Black View Post

I will also buy the transcoder from crescendo.

You only need this if you also want to use component output from some source. If not, you don't need it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Black View Post

So let me go over this one more time for accuracy -- I will connect the Toshiba HDMI out to the HDMI / DVI cable. This cable will then feed into the transcoder from Crescendo.

No, that cable will feed the current DVI box you have. Then its output will either:
1) Go to the PJ, or
2) go to the Crescendo VGA input.

Which depends upon if you need/want the Crescendo transcoder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Black View Post

Will I not utilize the scaler at all?

Not for HD because yours will not scale it. If your scaler has a passthrough for RGBHV and you want to use the scaler for other sources, then you can output the DVI box to the scaler.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Black View Post

Also, since you seem to know absolutely everything about HT -- I also have the B&K Reference 20 as my processor. Will this be able to give me the TruHD 5.1 audio from the Toshiba A1? I'm assuming it will, but I need to hook it up correctly if it is compatible.

OK, you are not going to like what I'm going to tell you. The short answer is "no".

You can't get TruHD out of the coax or optical S/PDIF connection. It does not support them as the bandwidth requirements are too much and the spec was not written for them. The HD-A1 can downrez the tracks to the max bitrate DTS and send that way.

There are only two ways to get TruHD:
1) PCM via HDMI (your processor does not have HDMI inputs)
2) Analog outs of the HD-A1 (I don't think your processor has multi-channel inputs)

If I'm right about the analog inputs, the only way to get true HD is to unplug the processor from the amp(s) and plug the HD-A1 analog out into them instead.

Dave
post #21 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Black View Post

One more thing -- where do you recommend I get the VGA / 5-BNC cable?

How long is your cable run?

Dave
post #22 of 29
Thread Starter 
I guess 3 or 4 feet would be enough.
post #23 of 29
Thread Starter 
Now I'm confused again. Do I need a cable that will reach all the way to the PJ which is mounted on the ceiling? Or do I need a cable that will connect to the BNC cables that currently connect to the scaler from the PJ?
post #24 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Black View Post

Now I'm confused again. Do I need a cable that will reach all the way to the PJ which is mounted on the ceiling? Or do I need a cable that will connect to the BNC cables that currently connect to the scaler from the PJ?

You can use a cable that connects to the cables from the scaler if you are not going to use the scaler. In fact, that is the best way to do it with your BNC to BNC cables.

The cable you need is here:
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/rgbhv/index.htm
(look at the bottom of page for this: AVLink Male HD15 to 5 Female BNC Breakout Adapter).


Or ebay item number 140074494568

Dave
post #25 of 29
Thread Starter 
Again, I don't know how I can thank you enough for all your help! So I just bought that cable from ebay.

So let me see if I have it straight -- The Toshiba or the Dishnet receiver will work for HD by the following process:

HDMI output on the Toshiba A1 - I connect the HDMI / DVI cable that I purchased tonight. This cable will plug into my existing DVI / VGA converter. Then I plug the VGA / 5-BNC female cable to the 5-BNC male plugs that are currently plugged into the scaler, which connect directly to the PJ.

Did I get it right this time?

As for the audio, you mentioned disconnecting the B&K Ref 20 and connecting the Toshiba output directly to the amp? Is that right? I can live without the TruHD if I must -- the hd picture was much more important to me. It would have been nice to hear the new sound format though.

Thanks again for all the help.

Bob
post #26 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Black View Post

So let me see if I have it straight -- The Toshiba or the Dishnet receiver will work for HD by the following process:

HDMI output on the Toshiba A1 - I connect the HDMI / DVI cable that I purchased tonight. This cable will plug into my existing DVI / VGA converter. Then I plug the VGA / 5-BNC female cable to the 5-BNC male plugs that are currently plugged into the scaler, which connect directly to the PJ.

Did I get it right this time?

Yes. But you now have a decision. Is the Dishnet HD? If so, you can buy an HDMI switcher from here:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/su...d=10110&style=

Then you connect:
HD-A1 -> switcher
Dishnet -> switcher
Switcher to DVI box -> short breakout -> 5 BNC to PJ

-or-

You can use component out of the Dishnet like this:
HD-A1 -> DVI box -> Crescendo RGB input
Dishnet -> Crescendo component input
Crescendo ouput -> short breakout -> 5 BNC to PJ


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Black View Post

As for the audio, you mentioned disconnecting the B&K Ref 20 and connecting the Toshiba output directly to the amp? Is that right?

Yep, it is the only way you are going to hear TruHD with your current equipment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Black View Post

I can live without the TruHD if I must -- the hd picture was much more important to me. It would have been nice to hear the new sound format though.

Well, the downmix to DTS will still sound better then dolby digital.

Dave
post #27 of 29
Thread Starter 
Great! That will make it easier to switch between sources. Is the $29 all I need?

One additional question -- if I do decide to connect the Toshiba directly to the amplifier for TruHD sound, howdo I adjust the volume? This is probably a very stupid question, but I never heard of connecting a player directly to an amp. It's a Carver 5 channel amp, BTW.
post #28 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Black View Post

Great! That will make it easier to switch between sources. Is the $29 all I need?

The $29 one is manual. Yes it works, you'll just need to get up to push a button to switch sources.

Just as an FYI, I'd run the Dishnet through the crescendo systems tcoder and do that because the picture will be just a bit better. But, it might not be enough better for you to justify the cost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Black View Post

One additional question -- if I do decide to connect the Toshiba directly to the amplifier for TruHD sound, howdo I adjust the volume? This is probably a very stupid question, but I never heard of connecting a player directly to an amp. It's a Carver 5 channel amp, BTW.

Unless you have an integrated amp (one with a volume knob), you don't!
post #29 of 29
Thread Starter 
Hi Dave. I got all the cables and connected this up. I know everything is wired correctly because the HD-DVD logo appears. However, every time I tried to play a disc I got an "HDMI Error" on the Toshiba and it would shut down. I unplugged the Toshiba on 4 different occasions as you suggested, but it would not play a disc.

Any other suggestions? I really want to get this wrking now that I'm so close. I have the latest frmware update on the Toshiba. Thanks again for your help.

Bob
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