Hard Drive vs. MiniDV

I'm probably going to get the Canon HV20 but JVC is releasing this soon as well.

http://www.jvc.com/presentations/eve...lid=MPEverioHD

Decisions decisions...

I've read in several places that the code (codec? IDK) used with DV tapes is superior to that used with MiniDVD and HD. And that goes for PQ as well as Editing. Perhaps there is something new I don't know. (That's for sure )

Does anyone have any info about this? I would much rather deal with HD than DV tapes. And it seems like uploading to a computer could be much faster with a method that didn't have to be realtime.

Convenient? HDD is convenient for recording for the first four hours and then after that it is going to be a pain. Imagine your friends want to see the beautiful HD footage you took last summer in Paris. You then have to ask them to wait for a while when you go to your PC to unload some footage off your SR1 to make room on the HD and then download the Paris footage from your PC onto the SR1... IMHO it is just going to be a giant pain to playback achived videos in a hurry.

That's why you gotta edit the videos into nice movies and archive them on disks. (ftw)

I don't understand 100% the early adopters of AVCHD camcorders. You can't edit footage right now and by the time software solutions are developed, a new wave of camcorders will have come out.


I don't think convenience is all too different. I think there's a mentality that comes from audio devices that states tapes are old, inconvenient, and low-quality (as is the case for tape-based Walkmans) while HDs are new, convenient, and high-quality (as is the case of iPods). I don't think this applies to camcorders. HDV is a fairly new standard and sending video to your computer is as easy as connecting a firewire cable. Transferring video is in realtime which is arguably inconvenient but no one says that you have to sit in front of your computer the whole time while the transfer takes place!

For me, it's ultimately a question of picture quality. At the end of the day, my friends and family who watch my videos aren't going to see or care about the media transport system. They're just going to see the image on the screen in front of them. If it's good PQ, they'll be impressed regardless of where it originated from. I think you should choose the camera that gives, in your opinion, the best footage!

My recommendation would be to borrow camcorders from friends and test them out in real shooting situations that you would tend to run into. Unfortunately, not everyone owns a $1k+ camcorder. As an alternative, I suggest you DL video clips from users in other forums or manufacturers' homepages. The PQ of some of the clips I've seen has been amazing!

this's precisely the point. For SR1's AVCHD codec, nothing to edit the video with, nothing to playback the disk on.

I currently have the SR1, OMG what a pain in the a**! (Help me, see topic)->SR1 Sony HD Questions = ( I purchased the thing going by brand name and features, only to conclude it is in no way compatible to a Mac. ??? Sony has pissed me off so much, making this great camcorder only Win-Blows compatible?? Now that I have my 4hrs of quality HD video, I have no way to edit it... As I currently type, I am having to burn all this video down to a DVD-R in HQ (Still not HD i think) and then will have to delete the video from the SR1 to record more, well there goes my HD quality... Any ideas??

-DJADJ

It seems Sony skimped on the size of the hard drive and got stuck having to use a compression codec still in it's infancy to avoid abysmal recording times. Hopefully their next generation models will have adequate storage space to allow them to use a more established codec like Mpeg2.

PS: How many of minutes of HQ quality movie are you being able to fit on a DVD-R?

7.5GB/hour at HQ from SR1, so around 36min on a 4.7GB (4.5GB) DVD-R.

I just picked up the JVC Evertio G GZ-MG37u. I have had it for a few weeks and enjoy not dealing with disc. I don't have a concern of worry about transfering to a disc to send to others since it is for my immediate family in the first place. I also picked up the Kodak EasyShare P880. I have been looking at the JVC hard drive cams for a couple of years now and have been enjoying the use out here in the desert. The BX here sales out of them as soon as they are available. You can edit the video on the camcorder itself or the computer.

HDD is definitely much more convenient though I'd stick with a solution that uses the good ol' 25Mbps DV codec.

I wonder how this codec will perform against the new MPEG2-TS 30Mbps on the new JVC Everio.

Yea the JVC hits a peak 30MBps on the highest quality and that's still fitting 5 hours onto the hard drive. That's about 5 HDV tapes right? Hmm

It's not about quantity, it's about quality.

Exactly. And editability. DVtapes seem to be the right choice at this time.

EDIT: If I'm wrong I'd like to know. I just don't like tape that much. But, it works.

Well the JVC has got the 3 CCD, Fujinon lens and MPEG2 at 1920x1080i

There should be no limitation in the recording format. The JCV and HDV cams both use MPEG2. HDV is 25Mbps and JVC is VBR at an average 26.6Mbps peaking at 30Mbps. The JVC simply has better raw specs in the codec but how that turns out in real world performance, we'll have to wait and see. With the big hard drive the JVC has both quantity and quality , possible the first hard drive to do this?

As for editing abilities, there will be plug ins for iMovie and Final Cut Pro plus CyberLink BD for the PC. Hopefully more NLE support is on the way too.

The JVC looks good, I just can't wait until the reviews to see what it's really like.

Does this mean it will edit properly (and with PQ the equal of DVtape) with Sony Vegas 7?

Both of these things are yet to be determined, especially the latter.

I really doubt it will match the quality of tape.

Kyser

I am getting ready to purchase a new system and have been considering the HVR-V1U and the HVR-DR60 external HD for simultaneous recording to tape and HD. This being with the idea I can edit the footage with Vegas 6 directly from the HD and keep the tape for archive purposes, or perhaps to later re-edit for HD output. I am looking for flaws in this approach or opinions on either the HVR-V1U or the HVR-DR60.

Rich

Why not? It's the same codec - MPEG2 - at a higher bit rate.

Nothing has matched tape yet, why should this be the holy grail?

I'll believe it when I see it.

Has there been a HD HDD camcorder with MPEG2?

I believe Sony was the first... HDR-SR1

I could be wrong though.

The Sony HDR-SR1 is a MPEG4/AVC camcorder. I don't believe there has been a consumer HDD Mpeg2 camcorder yet. It's a reasonable assumption to assume that the higher bit rate Mpeg2 JVC HDD camcorder should outperform lower bit rate Mpeg2 HDV tape camcorders.

Yes, that's correct. (As far as I know)

Still, why would you just assume that the JVC will do what no other camcorder has done before? The proof is in the pudding. I've seen what the HV10 and HV20 can do. Where is the JVC footage?

Once it hits the market and the professional forums start posting RAW footage... only then will I believe the hype.

Specs are useless IMHO.

I make the assumption simply because of it has specs of no other camcorder before it. Namely, the highest bitrate Mpeg2 codec coupled with a HDD. Based simply on this viewpoint it would seem naive to say the JVC would not have comparable if not better PQ then other Mpeg2 codec cameras. The intangibles that still need to be ironed out are things like the lens quality and image stabilization. These things have a role in overall PQ that we'll only get a real chance to evaluate after the camera gets into people's hands.

It would be naive to base anything on specs.

Especially in a company that is still holding back information about this camera when everyone else has laid everything on the table.

Odd no?

Kyser

no