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Does plasma need a pricing competitive edge?

post #1 of 31
2/3/07 at 12:42pm
Thread Starter 
I am wondering with all the hype and advancement of larger LCD sets in the past year if plasma makers need to evaluate their pricing in order to take back market share?

I think this might be the case for the 4o to 50 inch market.

Do you think buy reducing prices further to attract the buyers leaning towards LCD this might be a strategy to prevent marketshare loss?

Just a thought.
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post #2 of 31
2/3/07 at 2:15pm
Why would plasma need to adjust their pricing to meet the inferior picture quality of an LCD?
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post #3 of 31
2/3/07 at 3:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by omeletpants View Post

Why would plasma need to adjust their pricing to meet the inferior picture quality of an LCD?

That post was pointless and made little sense. Congrats for adding to the discussion.

Here's my take:

There's a 3 to 1 ratio of LCD to plasma panels being sold in major retail chains. The general impression LCD has made is that it's the more evolved, more durable cousin of plasma. The fact that there are many more LCD's than plasma on the market perpetuate this "wave of the future" impression.

People who have even a passing knowledge of HDTV know about plasma's traditional shortcomings (short lifespan, burn-in) because it's been around for almost 10 years now. LCD companies prey upon the fears of possible plasma owners by citing said shortcomings. Since LCD has only recently come into vogue, their foibles aren't as well known so consumers say "Why not? I don't want to pay $2500 for a plasma that'll burn in and die in a few years! LCD it is!"

Plasma is losing ground and needs to inform the purchasing public about the advances made in panels if they want to remain competitive. I feel this is more important than keeping the price lower than LCD. Sure, lower prices will move panels, but consistently lower prices coupled with the smaller number of models available will give the impression of plasma being an outdated product to the uninformed purchasing public (think projection TV's). Information and slick marketing will help plasma more than bottom of the barrel prices.
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post #4 of 31
2/3/07 at 5:12pm
Your ramblng post made little sense. At this point, plasma offers better PQ than an LCD. Until LCDs catch up there is little reason for plasma manufacturers to lower their price to compete. BTW, don't depend too much on LCD v Plasma sales figure comparisions as they usually count LCD computer monitors in those numbers
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post #5 of 31
2/3/07 at 6:12pm
A lot of Plasma TVs are already cheaper than their LCD counterparts. Even the 42inch panasonic just dropped in price. The 42inches LGs, which are decent plasma screens if you are on a budget are half the price of their LCD counter parts and they have a two years warranty to start out with.
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post #6 of 31
2/3/07 at 7:56pm
I don't like the look of LCD's at all. To me, a plasma TV has a picture that is very close to a CRT. To me, the picture on an LCD looks much more artificial.
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post #7 of 31
2/4/07 at 12:11am
All of these could become moot points anyway, if the trade rags are accurate about what's gonna happen this year. I've read that the plasma manufacturers are going to abandon the sub-50" market to LCD and concentrate on their 50", 60" and beyond panel sizes. any 42" plasma left will be going for bargain basement (less than a grand) prices. And those are the $$ for the 1st tier ones
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post #8 of 31
2/4/07 at 2:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benniator View Post

Here's my take:


Plasma is losing ground and needs to inform the purchasing public about the advances made in panels if they want to remain competitive...

Can you list the advancements plasmas have made?

Is it true they only last 5 years? I want to get one next month but am undecided due to this "rumor".
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post #9 of 31
2/4/07 at 9:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gruvars View Post

Can you list the advancements plasmas have made?

Is it true they only last 5 years? I want to get one next month but am undecided due to this "rumor".

From what I've read at various review sites, new plasmas are supposed to last about as long as a CRT (around 60,000 hours which translates to about a decade with normal viewing). Burn-in is also supposed to be a non-issue anymore. Two of my friends have plasmas (Panasonic and Samsung) that are used strictly for gaming (12 hour marathon sessions). Neither have burn-in. The general consensus on this board is don't abuse your plasma (turning up picture settings to insanely high levels, leaving a static image on the screen for hours at a time) and you'll have a fine product that'll last you well into the next decade.
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post #10 of 31
2/5/07 at 3:55am
It'll be more a function of changing technologies that will dictate an upgrade to another hdtv, as opposed to the tv itself needing replacement because it's "worn out".

Whatever is down the road vis-a-vis plasmas, lasers, lcd it'll be that next technology that will have us reaching for our wallets and taking no prisoners. I have no illusions about not replacing/upgrading my Samsung plasma well within the 10 year window. Hell, I replaced a perfectly good 32" JVC flat panel barely 3 years into it's lifespan when I went plasma - and that JVC is doing perfectly good duty at my Mom's house now

And when I DO replace/upgrade with something better (prolly within 3 years). my current Sammy will either move into the bedroom or on over to my Mom's.

One thing's for sure - my Mother has always been the beneficiary of my upgrade-itis
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post #11 of 31
2/5/07 at 7:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benniator View Post

From what I've read at various review sites, new plasmas are supposed to last about as long as a CRT (around 60,000 hours which translates to about a decade with normal viewing).

That's way off about 10 yrs. If you watch tv 8hrs/day (which would be excessive for most), you wouldn't hit the 60,000 mark for 20 yrs +.

8 hrs x 365 days x 20 yrs = 58,400 hrs. You are quoting 10 yrs which could be considered half-life. Good chance that within 20 years you'll be ready to buy a new tv at some point. 20 years is a very long tv life! Do you know many people, or anybody, that is still watching a tv that is 20 yrs old?
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post #12 of 31
2/5/07 at 7:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benniator View Post

That post was pointless and made little sense. Congrats for adding to the discussion.

Here's my take:

There's a 3 to 1 ratio of LCD to plasma panels being sold in major retail chains. The general impression LCD has made is that it's the more evolved, more durable cousin of plasma. The fact that there are many more LCD's than plasma on the market perpetuate this "wave of the future" impression.

People who have even a passing knowledge of HDTV know about plasma's traditional shortcomings (short lifespan, burn-in) because it's been around for almost 10 years now. LCD companies prey upon the fears of possible plasma owners by citing said shortcomings. Since LCD has only recently come into vogue, their foibles aren't as well known so consumers say "Why not? I don't want to pay $2500 for a plasma that'll burn in and die in a few years! LCD it is!"

Plasma is losing ground and needs to inform the purchasing public about the advances made in panels if they want to remain competitive. I feel this is more important than keeping the price lower than LCD. Sure, lower prices will move panels, but consistently lower prices coupled with the smaller number of models available will give the impression of plasma being an outdated product to the uninformed purchasing public (think projection TV's). Information and slick marketing will help plasma more than bottom of the barrel prices.

I agree. This is a well reasoned and clear response. It makes perfect sense to me. We on this site are not the "average" buyer but it is the average buyer that dictates the market. Plasma simply should change their advertising and PR to highlight their advances and advantages. Companies should not only do this individually but an industry plasma association should as well. Cousumer education would be their best wepon in this all out war in display technology.

Cheers,

Gary
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post #13 of 31
2/5/07 at 8:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kr8z1 View Post

That's way off about 10 yrs. If you watch tv 8hrs/day (which would be excessive for most), you wouldn't hit the 60,000 mark for 20 yrs +.

8 hrs x 365 days x 20 yrs = 58,400 hrs. You are quoting 10 yrs which could be considered half-life. Good chance that within 20 years you'll be ready to buy a new tv at some point. 20 years is a very long tv life! Do you know many people, or anybody, that is still watching a tv that is 20 yrs old?

I have a 31" GE CRT TV that I bought in 1989 with a retail price of $1799 at the time. It was an extremely high end TV at the time. I still use it regularly, as my son has him gaming systems connected to it. The model number is 31GT100N01 and it is 18 years old now.
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post #14 of 31
2/5/07 at 8:32am
That's great. I was thinking more on the lines of people using a 20 yr old tv as their main display. Many, especially on this forum, will upgrade their main display once, some even twice or more, within 20 yrs. My guess is that owning a plasma that will last this long will live it's life much longer as the main display before being retired to a bedroom, etc.
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post #15 of 31
2/5/07 at 9:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by itigap View Post

Companies should not only do this individually but an industry plasma association should as well. Cousumer education would be their best wepon in this all out war in display technology.

Cheers,

Gary


good suggestion. we got right on it and have come up with this..

Plasma Display Coalition

tell us what you think.
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post #16 of 31
2/5/07 at 1:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CruelInventions View Post

good suggestion. we got right on it and have come up with this..

Plasma Display Coalition

tell us what you think.

That was a fantastic link. I loved the test. I wish consumer reports did tests like that, so we could see which ones were better than others on IR, and such. I also wish I new which one of the plasmas had the significant IR after the 8 hours. 8 hours is quite extreme, but I guess if you were have a video game marathon or something.
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post #17 of 31
2/12/07 at 9:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by CruelInventions View Post

good suggestion. we got right on it and have come up with this..

Plasma Display Coalition

tell us what you think.

Actually I thought the presentation was poorly done. The images did not grab me. They did not demonstrate what was being said. I would have produced it differently.

The coilition needs print and TV ads that get the message out to a broad segmant of the buying population. People need to be positively predisposed to plasma when they go into a store. That's the way to combat the LCD insurgents.

Cheers,

Gary
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post #18 of 31
2/12/07 at 1:40pm
Well I`m still using a CRT TV that is about 15 years old but is starting to show its age. The only reason I haven`t upgraded yet is that: a) I`ve been doing a lot of research in the last year for a new HD display - b) I`m moving soon to a new condo so it was pointless to get it now and risk damaging it during the move.
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post #19 of 31
2/12/07 at 1:58pm
Plasmas are going to be challenged in the near term because of dots. Today's comsumers buy on numbers. Be it Mhz, Gigabytes, or pixels, the bigger number always win. Right now, 42-46" sets seem to be the sweet spot for most buyers. If you can get 1920x1080 dots instead of 1024x768, wouldn't you buy the one with higher res. Don't bother using logic here, like today's video sources can hardly handle 720I, that is not the point. Plasma's have a sell job because of this "implied" weakness (whether it is or isn't).
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post #20 of 31
2/12/07 at 2:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DBLASS View Post

Plasmas are going to be challenged in the near term because of dots. Today's comsumers buy on numbers. Be it Mhz, Gigabytes, or pixels, the bigger number always win. Right now, 42-46" sets seem to be the sweet spot for most buyers. If you can get 1920x1080 dots instead of 1024x768, wouldn't you buy the one with higher res. Don't bother using logic here, like today's video sources can hardly handle 720I, that is not the point. Plasma's have a sell job because of this "implied" weakness (whether it is or isn't).

Not buying the logic. People are going to buy based on picture quality and LCDs don't stack up at this point. No one is going into a store saying: "I like the picture on the plasma better but will buy the LCD because it has more dots".
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post #21 of 31
2/12/07 at 4:26pm
I think lots of the general public is drawn to LCDs in torch mode over plasmas. In a typical store setting, I will admit that the bright LCD gets your attention. I can tell that the picture has all sorts of issues like motion blur, vertical banding, and poor black levels, but the average person has no idea what these are, and some even have trouble seeing them when you point them out.

I think plasma manufacturers need to quickly get to a point where they stop trying price their "high end" displays at such a ridiculous premium. Sure, you have to recoop development costs, but sit up in the trees too long and everybody is going to pass you by. If plasma really does start becoming a niche technology, it'll probably be too late for them to make serious inroads.

I will say that IR and burn-in are very real, and that frankly scares the crap out of Joe Sixpack more than motion blur or poor black levels.
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post #22 of 31
2/12/07 at 5:51pm
Thread Starter 
IMO the plasma world needs to have a long term marketing strategy that involves education of the general buyer, competitive pricing and a strong competitive edge over LCD. The 40-50 inch range especially, otherwise LCD will eventually dominate this size and plasma will become a niche market over 50 inches. The average buyer will follow the crowd and the crowd right now seems to be on the LCD bandwagon.

After researching LCD for so long I realized that for SD, HD and DVD viewing that plasma was the best way to go.

We just have to get the word out!
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post #23 of 31
2/12/07 at 8:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by omeletpants View Post

Not buying the logic. People are going to buy based on picture quality and LCDs don't stack up at this point. No one is going into a store saying: "I like the picture on the plasma better but will buy the LCD because it has more dots".

You say........
Quote:


Not buying the logic.

I am afraid you miss the point. Decisions of many buyers are not logical. I see and hear them often when I am in looking.

You also say .....
Quote:


No one is going into a store saying: "I like the picture on the plasma better but will buy the LCD because it has more dots"

But actually they all too often do just this.

Not logical to you perhaps, not to me either, but that is irrelavent. Actions of many overide logic here. Remember it is probably more a matter of ignorance that most people do not even know what to look for in a picture. They don't know how to judge PQ. Its not intuitive for many.

Cheers,

Gary
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post #24 of 31
2/12/07 at 11:17pm
Couldn't part of the problem be that people are more familiar with LCDs because of having flatscreen LCD computer monitors?
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post #25 of 31
2/13/07 at 4:50am
About 2 months ago I was joe six pack looking for my first flat panel. Going into a Best Buy and looking around you hear what the salesmen tell you. Here is what most of the crap salesmen tell buyers, "buy 1080p, buy LCD, and come look in the magnolia section and see how much beter this TV looks." This is what most people do when buying a flat panel, its a confusing process. Its not like 10 yrs ago when you just went in and picked one out because they were mostly just CRT televisions and you picked out what size and took it home. Most joe consumers dont know to research the net and make an informed descision, they just go by what the salesmen tell them. I think Plasma needs to do alot of work helping the consumer know how and what to buy and dispell some of the rumors.
-Rich
hope this made sense.
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post #26 of 31
2/13/07 at 5:25am
Most consumers do not do the adequate research to make the best buying decision. Typically they may do a little research, or read a press article about LCD and plasma technology and then, when the time comes, they make an impulse buy based on what's on sale at the time. Of course, considering all factors going into their purchase would help them maximize their money and get the best display for their needs.

I hear way to often about someone buying a lower end plasma model at B&M store, paying the same or a little less than they could have for a higher end model (had they called me ).

I do agree that the plasma market has changed in the past 2-3 years and some of this is due to consumers just not knowing what technology is right for their use.
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post #27 of 31
2/13/07 at 5:43am
Quote:


I think lots of the general public is drawn to LCDs in torch mode over plasmas. In a typical store setting, I will admit that the bright LCD gets your attention. I can tell that the picture has all sorts of issues like motion blur, vertical banding, and poor black levels, but the average person has no idea what these are, and some even have trouble seeing them when you point them out.

Bingo....we have a winner! Hell, when I was shopping I noticed that the LCD's, especially the Sonys in torch mode jumped out like freegin crazy next to the rather dull, uninspiring plasma displays. Of course, I KNEW better and have a 42" Panny plasma but no doubt the regular follks that prolly dont even know what HDTV is are schlepping up the LCDs like mad. Whatever...

Its not till you get the unit home and put in your favorite movies that you see how much work LCD still has to do to catch up. To each his own, and I do like my Sharp 32" LCD.

As for pricing, how in the world people are willing to fork out $3000++ dollars on Sony LCD's when they could have a Pio or Panny plasma and POCKET some money is beyond me. Guess that SONY nameplate looks good.... when its OFF!
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post #28 of 31
2/13/07 at 5:55am
I recently bought the Panny 50" AFTER research on this site and others

I can tell you that prior to the Superbowl, they (B&M stores) were really pushing the plasma due to fast motion smear on the LCD's

Also, they were saying that burn in is a non issue

So I think more people than usual were informed of plasma superiority

Last year I bought a 32" LCD - because it was an awesome price, and I never thought plasma would be affordable to me

I still really like it, and rarely noticed the smear issue (except during hockey), but it has been moved upstairs to the casual watching room

Extremely happy with the new set - breaking it in now, and will be enjoying it for some time I think
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post #29 of 31
2/13/07 at 6:09am
Don't underestimate the power of advertising. 1080p is being ballyhood as the only true HD. LCD's are using 1080p as their Holy Grail and plasma cannot seem to produce a 1080p display at a reasonable price point. For instance, compare the largest Westinghouse 1080p to the least expensive 50" plasma 1080p. The average consumer believes that 1080p is better so his choice becomes a no brainer, especially when the salesperson is also a believer.
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post #30 of 31
2/13/07 at 6:47am
Agreed on 1080P selling sets as a number. Although I will say that with the right feed, a decent 1080P display does have more detail at the typical 1-2 ft viewing distances that B&M stores routinely lean towards with their tight aisles of displays. Step back another few ft and all that extra little detail disappears in my experience, and you're left with important stuff like contrast ratio, balance of brightness, and handling of motion.
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