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OFFICIAL Hsu MBM-12 thread - Page 9

post #241 of 466
I have Salk Songtowers and dual MFW-15's. My room is 30x15 with one wall that has multiple openings to another room the same size. my TV and system are on the short wall facing the long way. My couch is almost in the middle of the room. I love the sound of tight chest pounding midbass. Does anyone think a MBM-12 will help in my situation? The MFW's are great for movies, and the songtowers sound great, but seem they seem to be lacking midbass dynamics. I just don't know if a MBM will improve on dual MFW's......
post #242 of 466
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave98svt View Post

I have Salk Songtowers and dual MFW-15's. My room is 30x15 with one wall that has multiple openings to another room the same size. my TV and system are on the short wall facing the long way. My couch is almost in the middle of the room. I love the sound of tight chest pounding midbass. Does anyone think a MBM-12 will help in my situation? The MFW's are great for movies, and the songtowers sound great, but seem they seem to be lacking midbass dynamics. I just don't know if a MBM will improve on dual MFW's......

I would definately suggest using REW to chart your room, and see what you are lacking. The dual mfw-15s may be enough, depending on their placement.

I am using one mfw-15, and here is my REW results without an mbm-12:


Same mfw-15 placement, but I added an mbm-12:



The best way to describe the mbm-12 is that it will give your room a thick, full sound that you can hear, and feel (depending on placement). I have only had it for a couple days, but I am already highly impressed. Cant believe I waited so long to buy one.
post #243 of 466
Nice...
Do you have it crossed at 50hz?
Have you tried at 45 to see if that dip goes away...?
Also I would try inverting the phase on one of the units...
post #244 of 466
Quote:
Originally Posted by cacihome View Post

Nice...
Do you have it crossed at 50hz?
Have you tried at 45 to see if that dip goes away...?
Also I would try inverting the phase on one of the units...

I have the phase on the mbm-12 set to 180, crossed at 50 right now.

I'm pretty sure its just a null at the listening position, I'm going to take readings with the spl meter in different locations tonight.

The null is still there if I have the crossover disabled on the mbm-12 and the mfw-15.
post #245 of 466
I have to run 1 true sub, 2 MBM's , and a Buttkicker/IBeam transducer
> set up is also on the way.
>
> I wondered about splitting the RCA with several " Y cable" sub out on my receiver so many times ?
> Could I just go SVS sub in then from SVSsub out (on Sub) on to IN,HsuMBM.. then from Out on to the next unit..and so on ?
>
> Or does the internal crossover setting interfere ? I'll have different settings on each unit.
> Sub will be set to 70hz internal cross over, .. receiver is set 200hz with speakers set
> to large(although that is over ridden when you bass out to Both), Bass out Both, and @200hz, so..it'll go to Fronts, and MBM as well as
> Centre.(large also)
> Just wondered ? About connection options reducing Y splitters ?

All three sub units are up front under screen,,sorta' flanking mains.

Thanks in advance for any reply.
post #246 of 466
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegamble66 View Post

I have to run 1 true sub, 2 MBM's , and a Buttkicker/IBeam transducer
> set up is also on the way.
>
> I wondered about splitting the RCA with several " Y cable" sub out on my receiver so many times ?
> Could I just go SVS sub in then from SVSsub out (on Sub) on to IN,HsuMBM.. then from Out on to the next unit..and so on ?
>
> Or does the internal crossover setting interfere ? I'll have different settings on each unit.
> Sub will be set to 70hz internal cross over, .. receiver is set 200hz with speakers set
> to large(although that is over ridden when you bass out to Both), Bass out Both, and @200hz, so..it'll go to Fronts, and MBM as well as
> Centre.(large also)
> Just wondered ? About connection options reducing Y splitters ?

All three sub units are up front under screen,,sorta' flanking mains.

Thanks in advance for any reply.

Y splitters are definately the best option, they do not degrade the signal and will allow each subwoofer to use their own crossover settings.
post #247 of 466
OK..Thanks, I just thought a Whack of Y splitter might do just that not just loose strength in signal but maybe even loose "some" signals weaker Lower hz ones that the receiver can barely send ?

Anywhere to get 1M to 4F Y splitters or just use mulitples?
post #248 of 466
Does anyone have an opinion on this for music? I an thinking of adding this this. I have Monitor Audio RS8, LCR, 1's for speakers and EP600 for the sub. Somewhere between the sub and the speakers there just isnt enough umph for rock music. I am hoping that adding a MBM might be the best solution. Even though my mains have pretty low frequency response I guess those dual 6" drivers aren't enough for my tastes or maybe my room.
post #249 of 466
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan W View Post

Does anyone have an opinion on this for music? I an thinking of adding this this. I have Monitor Audio RS8, LCR, 1's for speakers and EP600 for the sub. Somewhere between the sub and the speakers there just isnt enough umph for rock music. I am hoping that adding a MBM might be the best solution. Even though my mains have pretty low frequency response I guess those dual 6" drivers aren't enough for my tastes or maybe my room.

The MBM-12 is GREAT for music, and even better for DVD rock concerts. the mid bass driver is very tight and responsive. It will definately fill the gap that your mains can't do, and your sub should do the rest. I have an Epik Tower with the MBM-12 and, although not nearfield, the overall effect is great.
post #250 of 466
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan W View Post

Does anyone have an opinion on this for music? I an thinking of adding this this. I have Monitor Audio RS8, LCR, 1's for speakers and EP600 for the sub. Somewhere between the sub and the speakers there just isnt enough umph for rock music. I am hoping that adding a MBM might be the best solution. Even though my mains have pretty low frequency response I guess those dual 6" drivers aren't enough for my tastes or maybe my room.

As long as you have it calibrated to match the levels of your main speakers it will blend nicely. Gives a nice thump to drums, and the bass line in songs becomes much more distinct.
post #251 of 466
Can you run the MBM-12 from the R and L channel pre-out as opposed to the LFE? Is there even a reason to do this? Will there be a diferent performance factor this way? just curious...
post #252 of 466
Only if you subwoofer output was fixed at a low crossover point I would imagine that being useful.
post #253 of 466
well, mine is currently fixed at 60hz... I have PSB Synchrony One Speakers, which have a pretty full sound to thm, but the midbass in my room is acking. This is why i am curious...
post #254 of 466
I have read on the Hsu forums that you can order a sealed version for $10 more. I'm wondering if it may be a better option.
post #255 of 466
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan W View Post

I have read on the Hsu forums that you can order a sealed version for $10 more. I'm wondering if it may be a better option.

Sealed version would be best if you are able to take the port plug out to test which works better for your room.
post #256 of 466
I ordered mine today sealed. It was a $50 charge. I think that overall the sealed is more flexible for placement. The retool it apparently to adjust for the difference from sealed vs ported. The rep I spoke said I would be one of the very few people to have a sealed model. So I will share my thoughts when I get it.
post #257 of 466
Is the same size? What are the dimensions of the sealed version? I am very curious about this!
post #258 of 466
alright ive owned the MBM 12 for a while now...about 7 months or so...ive owned the VTF3HO with turbo for about a year and a half...ive never really gone into detail trying to find an answer to this question before but now that ive gotten really serious about taming my frequencys with my new behringer feedback destroyer i need to know.

now whenever i use AVIA to set my subwoofer levels i first turn off the HO and have only the MBM on...i then match them to the levels of my mains...then i turn off the MBM and turn on the HO and match it to the mains...now when i go to the sub calibration part of the disc and do the same test with both subs on it reads that the levels are correct with my mains...HOWEVER, when i do a LFE sweep it reads about 10db above the level of my mains from my corssover point which is 80hz all the way down to 10hz...the second i listen to music i can tell the subs are about 10db hot.

im using a radioshack SPL meter...i also use REW...i have the crossovers set correctly on both subs so thats not the problem...im thinking it has something to do with the way avia outputs test ones.

so the way ive been calibrating my subs is this...i measure with my SPL meter (with corrected values of course) in REW...i then use the EQ filters to give me an idea of how i need to set the filters on my BFD...i then bring everything down to 75db...then when i think ive got it close i pop in AVIA and run a test tone through my speakers and make sure i have my receiver turned up loud enough for the test tone to measure 75db on the SPL meter...then i do a LFE sweep and make sure the LFE sweep doesnt deviate to much from 75db...hope all that made sense.

i know i have all the levels set up correctly i was just wanting to know if anyone else has such problems with avia or if anyone else has had to set it up this way.
post #259 of 466
WaveyD4vey,

You can make yourself crazy with trying to figure out which test tones are off.

Most of us find that subwoofer and by extention MBM levels equal to the other speakers sound a bit anemic and run these devices 3 to 5 dbs hotter than the other speakers. I'd recommend using just the spl meter to set levels using your receiver's internal test tones, then use REW to get the response curve where you want it. Then use the spl meter again to get the levels right.

Do check your DVD player and see if it has some kind of bass enhancement thing turned on. Same with your receiver/preamp for that input. Some systems allow tonal adjustments per input and yours may have that set.

Best of luck with the MBM. I tried it for at least 6 months before I gave up on it. In concept, I think its a great idea. Where I had a big problem was with intergrating it with my sub and other speakers.
post #260 of 466
Jrunr,

It's no difference in size from what I understand. The simply unbox it, seal the port and make a few modifications to optimize the sound.
post #261 of 466
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

WaveyD4vey,

You can make yourself crazy with trying to figure out which test tones are off.

Most of us find that subwoofer and by extention MBM levels equal to the other speakers sound a bit anemic and run these devices 3 to 5 dbs hotter than the other speakers. I'd recommend using just the spl meter to set levels using your receiver's internal test tones, then use REW to get the response curve where you want it. Then use the spl meter again to get the levels right.

Do check your DVD player and see if it has some kind of bass enhancement thing turned on. Same with your receiver/preamp for that input. Some systems allow tonal adjustments per input and yours may have that set.

Best of luck with the MBM. I tried it for at least 6 months before I gave up on it. In concept, I think its a great idea. Where I had a big problem was with intergrating it with my sub and other speakers.


ya i see what your saying about the levels...on some parts of music im VERY familiar with i find myself saying where the hell did that bass line go off to? i can still feel it but its definately not like it was before i equalised my subs out...but then again i had a GIANT peak from 65hz down to 58hz of about 10db...so i think that might explain it...ive just been so used to things not sounding the way they should...other than a few complaints like that i find the rest of my listening is much improved from before.

thing is when i match my MBM with my main speakers it is definately to loud...but then again thats using the test tones on avia...the test ones on my receiver i havent tried out yet but i will...i do run the MBM about 2db hot according to the LFE sweep test on avia...like i said, when i do the test on avia where you match the subwoofer volume to the speakers and match it perfectly and then go to the LFE sweep test my SPL meter starts reading about 10db above where my speakers and sub were supposedly calibrated to...LOL...frustrating but i love it...in a way...haha...

ill probly just leave it like it is...ive had these subs long enough now to where i can just tell by ear for the most part where the levels need to be...from there i can use my SPL meter and REW to perfect it...but i think ill just stick with using the LFE sweep test on avia as i think that one is much more accurate.

i dont own a copy of DVE...are the test tones on there any better? or is there no difference?
post #262 of 466
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrunr View Post

Can you run the MBM-12 from the R and L channel pre-out as opposed to the LFE? Is there even a reason to do this? Will there be a diferent performance factor this way? just curious...


i'm curious about this too...

i have two "true subs" up front next to my mains...they are connected by coax from a velo sms-1 to the LFE input on the subs

now, i'm thinking about 2 MBM's connected via coax from the main L/R pre-outs and placed nearfield, one on each side of my LP, not controlled by the sms-1. the MBM's would be complimenting the mains only, not connected to the LFE.

anyone tried this type of setup...?

or are the MBM's better hooked up to LFE only?
post #263 of 466
Quote:
Originally Posted by lefthandluke View Post

i'm curious about this too...

i have two "true subs" up front next to my mains...they are connected by coax from a velo sms-1 to the LFE input on the subs

now, i'm thinking about 2 MBM's connected via coax from the main L/R pre-outs and placed nearfield, one on each side of my LP, not controlled by the sms-1. the MBM's would be complimenting the mains only, not connected to the LFE.

anyone tried this type of setup...?

or are the MBM's better hooked up to LFE only?

I've done it when I had a set of Monitor 10's as mains and had one MBM each with each main, but it's a bitch to calibrate when there are two. It did the job though and lived up to my expectations. I have since gone with a pair of SDA's, so the MBM's when back to the LFE. I like my MBM up front with the mains and the true sub nearfield, behind me. No locaization issues and the bass really gets it done.

Bill
post #264 of 466
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveyD4vey View Post

alright ive owned the MBM 12 for a while now...about 7 months or so...ive owned the VTF3HO with turbo for about a year and a half...ive never really gone into detail trying to find an answer to this question before but now that ive gotten really serious about taming my frequencys with my new behringer feedback destroyer i need to know.

now whenever i use AVIA to set my subwoofer levels i first turn off the HO and have only the MBM on...i then match them to the levels of my mains...then i turn off the MBM and turn on the HO and match it to the mains...now when i go to the sub calibration part of the disc and do the same test with both subs on it reads that the levels are correct with my mains...HOWEVER, when i do a LFE sweep it reads about 10db above the level of my mains from my corssover point which is 80hz all the way down to 10hz...the second i listen to music i can tell the subs are about 10db hot.

im using a radioshack SPL meter...i also use REW...i have the crossovers set correctly on both subs so thats not the problem...im thinking it has something to do with the way avia outputs test ones.

so the way ive been calibrating my subs is this...i measure with my SPL meter (with corrected values of course) in REW...i then use the EQ filters to give me an idea of how i need to set the filters on my BFD...i then bring everything down to 75db...then when i think ive got it close i pop in AVIA and run a test tone through my speakers and make sure i have my receiver turned up loud enough for the test tone to measure 75db on the SPL meter...then i do a LFE sweep and make sure the LFE sweep doesnt deviate to much from 75db...hope all that made sense.

i know i have all the levels set up correctly i was just wanting to know if anyone else has such problems with avia or if anyone else has had to set it up this way.


The sweep tones are much louder than the test tones, they are not the same 85dB (on Avia). You have to turn the volume down when you run the sweeps. Or are you saying that when you run 200-20Hz tone, the volume jumps around the frequency where the subs take over?

If it's the latter, then the bass in the mains is down from the average SPL of the speaker (where the speaker level is matched). This could be due to the speakers themselves, room acoustics, speakers not being very close to the wall (the closer they are, the more the bass is reinforced), or a combination of these factors.

Since you have an MBM, I suggest you set the crossover in the receiver, between the speakers and the sub, much higher. Like 150Hz. The MBM is made to do that, and will give you great mid-bass. That assumes the MBM isn't behind you, because if it is, you won't want that much mid-bass coming from behind you. It will be very distracting (low registers of male voices and more).

Also, when you calibrate the HO, you MUST disable any crossover in the sub limiting the output (which you use to filter out freqs above that are being played by the MBM). You have to run the HO at its full range to set the level, because most of the bass in the sub test tone is above 50Hz. Once you set the level on the HO, then you re-engage the crossover. I hope this is how you are doing it. Otherwise the HO's level will be way too high and throw off the sound of the bass.

But make sure you are eq'ing the subs' combined output with the BFD, then re-calibrating with Avia to set the subs at the correct level. When you cut frequencies with the eq, you cut the volume, so it will be lower than before.


*And remember that Avia test tones are recorded at 85dB. If you are measuring to 75dB, that's your "-10" point. I personally use Avia and calibrate to 80dB, finding my -5 point.
post #265 of 466
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveyD4vey View Post

but i think ill just stick with using the LFE sweep test on avia as i think that one is much more accurate.

i dont own a copy of DVE...are the test tones on there any better? or is there no difference?


REW, running tones through the receiver, measuring with the meter (on a tripod) and reading out on the screen, is much more accurate than Avia. When you use REW and measure with the meter, you get very accurate readings. With Avia and reading the meter manually, you get a much less accurate picture of what is going on.
post #266 of 466
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveyD4vey View Post

like i said, when i do the test on avia where you match the subwoofer volume to the speakers and match it perfectly and then go to the LFE sweep test my SPL meter starts reading about 10db above where my speakers and sub were supposedly calibrated to...LOL...frustrating but i love it...in a way...haha...

The sweep isn't recorded at the same volume as the test tones. The test tones are at 85dB and meant to be used to calibrate levels - lots of frequencies at once. The sweeps are just sweeps, you can't level match with them.
post #267 of 466
Quote:
Originally Posted by lefthandluke View Post

i'm curious about this too...

i have two "true subs" up front next to my mains...they are connected by coax from a velo sms-1 to the LFE input on the subs

now, i'm thinking about 2 MBM's connected via coax from the main L/R pre-outs and placed nearfield, one on each side of my LP, not controlled by the sms-1. the MBM's would be complimenting the mains only, not connected to the LFE.

anyone tried this type of setup...?

or are the MBM's better hooked up to LFE only?


That would work. You just wouldn't be able to eq them. Since they would run off the l/r outputs, you would need to lower the receiver's XO point to 50~Hz since the MBM would be playing that part, with the sub playing below. However the speakers themselves and the MBMs would be playing down to 50Hz, overlapping. So I would suggest running the speaker wire outs from the receiver to the MBMs, use the MBMs' high-pass crossover in each back out to the respective speaker. That way only the MBMs are playing down to 50Hz, with no overlap. Could work, but kind of like 6 of one and half a dozen of the other, compared to having MBMs as part of the LFE chain.

If I were going to do it, personally I'd put the MBMs next to the speakers up front, use the MBM's crossover to blend them, and crossover at 150Hz give or take. So that mid-bass really is coming from up front, by the speakers, and not from right next to you.
post #268 of 466
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbri View Post

That would work. You just wouldn't be able to eq them. Since they would run off the l/r outputs, you would need to lower the receiver's XO point to 50~Hz since the MBM would be playing that part, with the sub playing below. However the speakers themselves and the MBMs would be playing down to 50Hz, overlapping. So I would suggest running the speaker wire outs from the receiver to the MBMs, use the MBMs' high-pass crossover in each back out to the respective speaker. That way only the MBMs are playing down to 50Hz, with no overlap. Could work, but kind of like 6 of one and half a dozen of the other, compared to having MBMs as part of the LFE chain.

If I were going to do it, personally I'd put the MBMs next to the speakers up front, use the MBM's crossover to blend them, and crossover at 150Hz give or take. So that mid-bass really is coming from up front, by the speakers, and not from right next to you.


That is what i am thinking about doing myself... I would place one, ortwo MBM's upfront next to my mains, and run them from about 50-100HZ. The only thing I am curious about is going to be the combo of those PLUS my mains in the midbass region. Combined with the high amounts of Amp power I am sending to my PSB Synchrony One towers...

I wonder if it will be over bearing...
post #269 of 466
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbri View Post

That would work. You just wouldn't be able to eq them. Since they would run off the l/r outputs, you would need to lower the receiver's XO point to 50~Hz since the MBM would be playing that part, with the sub playing below. However the speakers themselves and the MBMs would be playing down to 50Hz, overlapping. So I would suggest running the speaker wire outs from the receiver to the MBMs, use the MBMs' high-pass crossover in each back out to the respective speaker. That way only the MBMs are playing down to 50Hz, with no overlap. Could work, but kind of like 6 of one and half a dozen of the other, compared to having MBMs as part of the LFE chain.

If I were going to do it, personally I'd put the MBMs next to the speakers up front, use the MBM's crossover to blend them, and crossover at 150Hz give or take. So that mid-bass really is coming from up front, by the speakers, and not from right next to you.

cyberbri haven't heard from you in awhile, as for the rest of you on this thread, cyberbri knows his stuff so pay attention!

Bill
post #270 of 466
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrunr View Post

That is what i am thinking about doing myself... I would place one, ortwo MBM's upfront next to my mains, and run them from about 50-100HZ. The only thing I am curious about is going to be the combo of those PLUS my mains in the midbass region. Combined with the high amounts of Amp power I am sending to my PSB Synchrony One towers...

I wonder if it will be over bearing...

I would use the internal MBM crossover with the speaker wire running from the receiver to the MBM, then to the speaker. Use the MBM crossover to blend the speakers and the MBMs to your liking. You'll most likely get a lot more mid-bass slam letting the MBMs handle up to 100~150Hz. Lower if you want the towers to play more of the mid-bass. You can experiment to see what sounds best. Based on speaker and MBM placement, you may find that the room acoustics make it better to use one over the other, despite the theoreticals of what the equipment specs say. The biggest factor of how your equipment sounds is your room and the acoustics of your space. ;D

If you double up in that region between the MBM and the speakers, you could get more bass, and it could muddy it up as well. I personally would do the above - blend the MBM and the speaker so they blend well and you get the most amount of slam. Treat the MBM like (a self-powered) part of the speaker.
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