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GEFEN Home Theater Scaler PLUS

post #1 of 29
2/5/07 at 9:47am
Thread Starter 
Anyone know anything about this upcoming product released this month?

$449 for upscaling to 1080p seems great if it can perform.....





Features:
* Both digital and analog inputs are format converted and pixel re-scaled through the Home Theater Scaler. It outputs a large range of formats and resolutions that will easily match the native resolution/ format of your display to ensure highest picture quality.
* DVI/HDCP/HDMI compliant input: Operates up to 165Mhz (Up to UXGA @60Hz)
* Supports digital HD output up to 1080p.
* Integrated 8-bit triple-ADC/PLL.
* Integrated DVI/HDCP/HDMI compliant receiver.
* Dual high quality scaling engines.
* Dual 3-D motion video adaptive de-interlacers with smooth low-angle edge.
* Automatic 3:2 pull-down & 2:2 pull-down detection and recovery.
* High performance frame rate conversion engine.
* The Proprietary Advanced Color Engine technology gives: Brilliant and fresh color, Intensified contrast and details, Vivid skin tone, Sharp edge, Accurate and independent color control
* Option to select Audio input from HDMI or TOSlink/SPDIF audio source.
* 3D noise reduction on analog inputs only.
* Operates through on-screen OSD menu control and remote control.

Specifications:

* Digital Video Amplifier Bandwidth: 1.65 Gbps
* Component Video Bandwidth: 350 Mhz
* Input DDC Signal: 5 volts p-p (TTL)
* Input Video Signal: 1.2 volts p-p
* Single Link Range: 1080p/1920 x 1200
* Input/Output HDMI Connector: type A 19 pin female
* Component Video Connector: 3 RCA
* Digital Audio Connector: optical TOSlink
* Analog Audio Connector: mini-phone stereo 3.5mm
* Power Supply: 5V DC
* Power Consumption: 20 watts (max)
* Dimensions: 6.875"W x 2.125"H x 6.875"D
* Shipping Weight: 6 lbs.
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post #2 of 29
2/5/07 at 9:59am
No clue. No reviews that I know of yet.

There's a whole thread of inquiring minds discussing this and the standard model here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=748885
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post #3 of 29
2/5/07 at 10:04am
Thread Starter 
The dealer in Germany i got the info from have dropped all DVDOs products from their catalog and is offering these instead.
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post #4 of 29
2/5/07 at 10:14am
They're obviously targeting the hobbyist market that would normally buy a straight switcher at that price, so I wouldn't expect miracles from the scaling engine. There was some discussion about which chipset they were going to use, and apparently Gefen has stated that it WON'T be the Gennum VPX as was rumoured (as this would up the price about $1000 US), but rather something called Mstar.

Maybe your dealer feels he can move more product at the low end of the consumer base.
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post #5 of 29
2/5/07 at 10:54am
I've requested a review unit of the standard version of the scaler (2x Component input instead of 1x Component and 1x S-Vid/Composite pair). No ideas if they'll be willing to let me borrow one yet.
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post #6 of 29
2/5/07 at 1:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lyris View Post

I've requested a review unit of the standard version of the scaler (2x Component input instead of 1x Component and 1x S-Vid/Composite pair). No ideas if they'll be willing to let me borrow one yet.

Keep us posted!
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post #7 of 29
2/5/07 at 2:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebard View Post

but rather something called Mstar.

I am guessing

http://www.mstarsemi.com/
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post #8 of 29
2/5/07 at 2:08pm
The thing about the chips they list on that site is that none seem to support 1080p, unless I'm missing something. They all say they go up to XGA resolution - 1920x1080 is WUXGA. I'll be interested to see how this thing does.
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post #9 of 29
2/5/07 at 2:19pm
They also say 2002 so I am thinking that they have\\are updated them. That might explain the delays the release has been pushed back a few times.
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post #10 of 29
2/5/07 at 2:24pm
Mstar just ended a lawsuit so now they can start selling in the US again. This has been going on for years.

Taiwan, October 19, 2006 -

MStar Semiconductor, a market leader in IC design and image processing technologies for LCD flat panel television and computer monitors and Genesis® Microchip Inc. (Nasdaq: GNSS), a world leader in the development of image processing technologies for flat-panel TVs, monitors, and other consumer display products, today announced they have settled the patent infringement complaints filed by Genesis Microchip against MStar in the U.S. International Trade Commission (ITC) and entered into a license agreement.

The ITC had previously ruled that certain controllers and products containing those controllers infringed Genesis Microchip¡¦s U.S. Patent No. 5,739,867 and issued an Exclusion Order preventing the infringing products from entry into the United States. While the terms of the license agreement are confidential, they include a license of certain Genesis Microchip patents to MStar in exchange for undisclosed running royalties. This license allows MStar to ship the infringing products into the United States.

"We have entered into this license agreement with MStar to foster an environment of fair competition and to support our continual goal of protecting Genesis Microchip's significant investment in its intellectual property," said Elie Antoun, president and CEO of Genesis Microchip.


"We appreciate Genesis Microchip's cooperation in settling this matter which provides a stable market environment for our customers," said Wayne Liang, Chairman of MStar.
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post #11 of 29
2/6/07 at 12:36pm
I preface what I am about to say that I am no expert.

I would think that the owner of an LCD or plasma monitor would not need such a beast (scaler, upconverter) since the TVs themselves only support one native resolution, and all images are scaled (and deinterlaced if necessary) to the native resolution anyway. Am I right? If I am right, then why do products such as this and all the other plethora of upscaling DVD players and receivers exist?

Thanks
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post #12 of 29
2/6/07 at 1:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackc04 View Post

I If I am right, then why do products such as this and all the other plethora of upscaling DVD players and receivers exist?

You are right but not all products do a good job of upscaling.

Some, for example, may have 1080 rows of pixels but cannot take 1080i material and reproduce more than about 540 alternating light and dark picture details going up the screen.

DVD does not have that much of a problem getting 480 scan line frames scaled up to 720 or 1080 but getting its two interlaced fields per 1/30'th second made into 480 scan line frames one per 1/60'th second is not trivial. Some TV's don't do it that well. In addition some upconverting DVD players don't do it well either but that is another program.

Video hints:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/viddoubl.htm
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post #13 of 29
2/6/07 at 4:26pm
Additionally, many older HDTVs don't have the input options needed to accommodate all the devices users want to attach. Folks would rather spend $400 on a scaler/switcher than $1000 on a new tv.
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post #14 of 29
2/6/07 at 6:35pm
And in addition to that, the video processing in TVs tends to have at least ONE thing wrong with it. My Sony BRAVIA KDL-40W2000 has very obvious Y/C delay (colours shifted out the lines) when inputting 480i through Component or HDMI.

The bottom line is that for an external scaler to be worthwhile at all, it has to be better at upscaling than the processing in the TV.
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post #15 of 29
2/16/07 at 9:26am
I am looking into getting this GEFEN unit but I called them up and they let me know that the
output was either 50hz or 60hz , how will this do on the new Sharp Aquos line set to come
out with 120hz rate.
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post #16 of 29
2/16/07 at 11:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADAMCACIC View Post

I am looking into getting this GEFEN unit but I called them up and they let me know that the
output was either 50hz or 60hz , how will this do on the new Sharp Aquos line set to come
out with 120hz rate.

You'll probably get a better picture running your signals directly to the Sharp.
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post #17 of 29
2/16/07 at 3:54pm
Thanks For The Reply But The Sharp Does A Sub Par Job Of Up Converting

The Signal At Best. Does Anybody Else Use An External Up Converting

Box And Do You Find It Works Well?
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post #18 of 29
2/16/07 at 4:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADAMCACIC View Post

The Signal At Best. Does Anybody Else Use An External Up Converting

Box And Do You Find It Works Well?

There are excellent video processors, but you can't get them for a few hundred dollars. The processor in the Gefen costs less than $8. I know the processor in the D92 is better (costs around $20), and I expect the one in the D62 is as well.

If you want high-quality scaling, you need to look for a product with Gennum VXP or Silicon Optix HQV processing.
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post #19 of 29
2/17/07 at 7:54am
I don't know how some one can bash a product that has not even been released yet.

bfdtv How do you know what the processor cost?? You must have some inside info because as far as I know Gefen has not really even said what chip they are using.

The Lumagen HDP does not use the Gennum and only cost about 1K so that must be no good too right Is it "the best" no but it is much better than the $.0001 chip that some TVs have.

I will hold my opinion on the Gefen until someone has one. If the specs are right it does not look to bad.
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post #20 of 29
2/17/07 at 10:42am
tower101,

Mstar produces solutions for the extreme low-end of the market. They target inexpensive LCDs with their hardware, i.e. the sort of thing you get in those $500 32" LCDs. AFAIK, their most expensive product is a $15 chip.
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post #21 of 29
2/17/07 at 11:42am
Thread Starter 
This is the problem with some people, as soon as someone releases a product that is cheaper than anything else it get slashed by some ppl here that haven't even tried it out.

Current highend processors got insane prices, do you even know how much money they make on dumb customers beleiving a highend processor shall cost $3-4,000?

Who said what?

It's just a matter of time before excellent video processing is standard in most TV sets and AV-receivers for cheap bucks...
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post #22 of 29
2/17/07 at 11:45am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

tower101,

Mstar produces solutions for the extreme low-end of the market. They target inexpensive LCDs with their hardware, i.e. the sort of thing you get in those $500 32" LCDs. AFAIK, their most expensive product is a $15 chip.

Let me tell you the hardware in a Crystalio or VP50 is not very expensive either.

It's like computer graphics cards, they take insane prices in the beginning and 3 months later the prices has fallen over 50%.
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post #23 of 29
2/17/07 at 12:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

tower101,

Mstar produces solutions for the extreme low-end of the market. They target inexpensive LCDs with their hardware, i.e. the sort of thing you get in those $500 32" LCDs. AFAIK, their most expensive product is a $15 chip.

If it the same Mstar that I linked above they have not sold anything in the US for years as the was a court injunction against them.

Who makes a $500 32"LCD? There might be one but not at any store near me.

Have you tested this unit? How do you know what it can do and what chip it even has?

I went with the Lumagen as I wanted some of the calibration features it offers and it can get updates the Grefen can not. If not for thouse 2 things I would have gotten a Grefen although I would have waited for it to be reviewed first, after all it "may" not work as advertised.
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post #24 of 29
2/17/07 at 12:41pm
tower,

Mstar's solutions are used predominantly in low-cost LCDs sold in Asia.
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post #25 of 29
2/17/07 at 12:57pm
Cool good to know they have been busy.

Again have you tested this? Do you know for sure what they are using?

You maybe right BUT it has not even hit the market yet.

Maybe they are looking to break back into the US market and willing to develop a chip and sell it at a loss to accomplish this.

The fact is we don't know but if the unit works as advertised for < $500 it will do well.
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post #26 of 29
2/17/07 at 6:41pm
The thing is, this product has to at the very least better the in-TV processing of most displays. If it doesn't, then what's the point of it, other than functioning as an expensive switcher?

BTW guys, the manual's up:
http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=4174
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post #27 of 29
2/17/07 at 7:05pm
Will the Gefen be able to process the vertical stretch mode needed by owners of a 2.35 x 1 aspect ratio lens and screen combination? If so I know lots of JVC RS1 owners will be very interested in this product!
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post #28 of 29
2/17/07 at 7:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmanhdtv View Post

Will the Gefen be able to process the vertical stretch mode needed by owners of a 2.35 x 1 aspect ratio lens and screen combination? If so I know lots of JVC RS1 owners will be very interested in this product!

http://forum.gefen.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1535
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post #29 of 29
2/17/07 at 9:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lyris View Post

The thing is, this product has to at the very least better the in-TV processing of most displays. If it doesn't, then what's the point of it, other than functioning as an expensive switcher?

BTW guys, the manual's up:
http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=4174

I read the manual on Friday and called their technical support with a few questions because I think that it was poorly written. For example it mixes and matches YCbCr with YPbPr eventhough both are on the component input. The HDMI inputs list only computer resolutions and not video resolutions.

They are selling two versions of the Home Theater Scaler as well as the HD Mate Scaler. The HD Mate Scaler is geared toward computer users and its as if they copied and pasted the manual from one into the other.

I asked if the 3:2 pulldown detection would work with 1080i input and they said it would. I am pretty sure that my 1080P LCD "bobs" its way to 1080p so I should see a noticeable improvement when watching network shows on CBS and NBC. They have also confirmed that it will pass the SD HQV tests which most TV's internal video processors fail.

I also asked them if they have thought about using a Gennum chip since they already have an existing relationship and he said that they were working on it and it would be out in about 6 months. Now I didn't get too excited because #1 this guy was unsure of himself the whole conversation and #2 they are already 3 months late on this unit so "6 months" for the Gennum version is highly unlikely, but I thought the board could use a little speculation.
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