The Official: Denon 3808ci & 4308ci HDMI 1.3 thread. - Page 3

Have you considered a new box? I've read of nothing but problems with the 8300HD and HDMI. That makes me suspect that STB rather than the various AVR's...

I decided to try out the Dakmart 4306 rather than wait for the new ones since they're apparently not coming to North America in silver... We'll see how that goes.

I'm not aware of another 2 tuner HD DVR that I could switch to with Time Warner. And my 8300HD works fine with HDMI through my monoprice 2x1 HDMI switcher. I added an external 400gb drive and I have tons of space. But it's just frustrating that they have the box programmed not to pass the HDMI signal through certain kinds of AVRs. From what I've read TWC should be switching the software over to their own (I'm on Passport now) and maybe this issue will be corrected.

It's not a matter of SA 8300HD "compatibility" with AVRs, it's a very well-known and discussed
(see this: http://forums.audioholics.com/forums...highlight=4306 )
problem of firmware glitch in those boxes which affects (negatively) the HDCP handshake process. So, usually SA 8300HD would work just fine through HDMI directly with your TV, but would not work with AVR (as it is the HDMI switch)
As you will find in the quoted discussion, there's already the remedy available from SA, the firmware upgrade which cures the problem.
The only obstacle which remains is stubborness of some cable providers NOT TO UPGRADE the firmware (which only they can do ).
Usually you have to push individually with them (as I did with COX N.Virginia), as they tend to deal with this on a "per-case-basis".

So you shouldn't be really concerned with this problem as the criterium for your AVR selection process.

The problem is that the set top box has not properly implemented the HDCP (copy protection) protocol in HDMI. The moment it discovers it is not directly connected to a TV it simply gives up.

There are a handful of AVP products which get around this well known problem with many cable boxes (and some satellite boxes). The trick is to lie to the box and tell it that it is directly connected to a TV. The AVP then has to take over essentially all of the HDCP protocol (to maintain its own compliance) and do it in a way that doesn't screw up the connection from the source through to the display. This is not exactly easy, given the connection options that have to be handled.

The Anthem Statement D2 and the Anthem AVM-50 are two pre/pros that have implemented this workaround.

There's been comment that Geffen has started shipping a gadget that goes between the cable box and the receiver and does the same trick. I've no idea whether that's true, nor whether such a product might introduce other problems.
--Bob

Interesting, it sounds like the cable providers are slowly including the fix in their firmware rollouts. Anyone know if TWC in NYC has gotten around to this yet? Hopefully they do it sooner than later, but it would be nice to have it done by July or whenever the new Denon's come out. For now I can live with my HDMI switcher.

I have the TWC 8300 HD DVR and those "firmware glitches" was what I was referring to regarding stability of 1.3. The HDMI consortium can only make the standard, its up to the individual manufacturers to implement correctly.

I'd wager that HDCP has added 5 years to the delivery date of all these connections and formats..what a joke. As Steve Jobs recently pointed out, anyone who wants to steal will just make copies of the disc anyway.

I guess the threat is cable system output of new movies in pure digital form...but who cares since it would be easier to buy one disc and make copies from it than to screw around with the cable feed. Or maybe I'm ignorant of the elegant methods IP thieves are using these days.

Regardless, I would have bought new receiver 3 years ago but for these HDCP problems. I couldn't get the cable box to output HDMI to my projector (let alone a receiver) until recently.

Oh, by the way, TWC is supposedly rolling out a new custom software solution to replace the current Passport...initial reviews weren't complementary from what I remember. *Sigh*.

Any more info? I'm very interested in the 3808ci


Regards,

I am interested in the 3808ci as well but I doubt we will see any info on this model in the next few months. I emailed Denon and they said maybe this summer so I would not expect to see anything for at least a few more months.

I will be surprised if the Denon 4308 does not come with six HDMI inputs.

Denon has always set the standard (or matched it) for the number of necessary "New" inputs (Component for example). The standard right now is to have 4 (Pioneer Elite) and is rising to 6 (Sherwood Newcastle) and this is in the $1500. range not the $2500. range.

Having 6 HDMI inputs vs only 4 IS significant to me as I can already use 3 or four right now (Denon 2910 and 2 Bell HD receivers) and I will be getting more HDMI equipment in the future.

I don't think so. Denon showed (what appeared to be) a fully functional prototype at CES 2007. Four HDMI ins, two out. I can't imagine them re-engineering it at this point. They use 5-6 HDMI inputs as upgrade features for the new 5308ci.

6 HDMI would be nice, but 4 should hold most people over for quite a while. How many people are going to have more than an HD-DVD, BD, Cable box, and PS3? Most people would probably use their PS3 as a blu ray player anway, right? I guess if you have more than 1 cable box/HD receiver connected that could fill up all the inputs faster. Just the other day I was thinking about getting another SA8300HD as there are many times I want to record 3 (or even 4) shows at once. I guess it's always better to have more, but I was holding out for a 3 HDMI input receiver, so 4 will make me happy.

Just counting current toys---TVIX, PC, Oppo 970, SFA 8300HD; Blueray and HD DVD would add even more...6 inputs may be a good idea.

Not to be a wet rag about it, but as exciting as the new Denon models are with all those new features (HDMI 1.3, Dolby Digital Plus and HD, etc.), I can't help but think about how many bugs there will be in these new features (just like the LFE issue with the new Pioneer Elites that requires a trip to the service center to fix).

Is it crazy to expect a flawless receiver from Denon?

yes

They've raised the prices for arguably incremental improvements. The least Denon could do would be to get the incremental improvements correct...that's not too much to ask.

Wonder what video chips are in the 2808, 3808 and 4608? 4608 is out of my league, so I'm hoping the diff. between the 2808 and 3808 on the video side are small...

(And when can we expect announcements from Pioneer and Yamaha?)

Anyone know how many HDMI inputs the 2808 will have?

Chris

I can not wait to see the detailed information on Denon's new line up this summer. I am hoping that Denon will put up the information on there web site by the end of May.

IIRC, Pioneer releases their new receivers at CEDIA in the fall. I would look around September for info from them.

j

Why not just get an Anthem AVM50 and be done with it, particularly since they will allow you to upgrade in the future.

Don't need the VP of the AVM50, thought about the AVM40 but apparently it has a problem switching 1080P (read a review here about a month back). Besides the AVM50 goes for $4699 and AVM40 is $3699. Too many quirks right now with HDMI stuff to sink too much $ into. Denon seems to be more stable than others at the moment. Hence, my 2-5 years plan. If it's good, then it may be in the system for around 5 years (money well spent). If not too good, then be rid of it in 1-2 years and not too much loses.

Bummer. Meaning hitting the stores in october/november? If the 3808 hits in late july/august, I don't think I can stand the wait... (My trusted Yamaha 795 died on me, and I'm using a loaner Pioneer now, doesn't even have component switching. Oh, the pain...)

OTOH, the 38XX series have stood up well to offerings from Pioneer, so not really worried about it. (The only thing is that I get 30-40% off on Pioneers...)

Should Denon actually launch in July, maybe Pioneer will be forced to speed up their launch? (Assuming their hardware is ready, which could be a stretch.)

I wouldn't expect anything new from Denon before CEDIA. Especially since they didn't have that much to show at CES.

From the first post in this thread: "It appears as if the receivers will be rolled out in two waves, the first wave in July will include the AVR-4308ci and AVR-3808ci with the AVR-1508, AVR-1708 and AVR-2808 following in September."

What does "rolled out" mean? Press release or actually availability? I hope the latter...

is 3808 is thx certified? priced = 3806? has atleast 4 hdmi in and 2 out, with 1080p hdmi 1.3 pass through/ available july, I am for it!

Ditto that! However I think that 1. the xx08 will be more expensive than their predecessors and the 2. (2) HDMI outs are only available in the 4308 and up. I would love to be wrong here....

____
Axel

I doubt the 3808 will get THX certification, though it's possible. Previously, the 3806 and 4306 were not, of course, that being available only on the 4806 up.

well wait for marantz revised 7001/8001, with hdmi 1.3 , with hopeful, fixation of problems

I stopped caring if something is THX certified years ago. When the Kenwood pre/pro and amp combo was THX certified that showed me that almost anything could sport the THX badge as long as you pay the fee. I remember the Kenwood semi that was touring the country at the time. And the guy giving the demo admitted that they where not even using the Kenwood power amplifier in the demo. But instead where using a high end amp that was set up on the hot side to make it sound as good as possible. There has been plenty of really good gear out there that does not have the THX badge on it. So if something I am interested in has the THX emblem on it fine, if not I really do not care.



I am also hoping that the problems with the Marantz are fixed because I really liked the specs, features and the quality of the amplifiers. So I am keeping Marantz on my list of receivers to check out at the end of the year. Denon is still ranked on the top of my list of brands to replace my old Yamaha RX-V995.