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Ambient Light: Daylight vs. Bulbs & how it affects your screen

post #1 of 7
Thread Starter 
I've been doing a lot of testing and watching of my new XFS screen and as a semi-professional videographer I know that daylight and interior lights are different color temperatures. I've also noticed that these two kinds of light react to my screen quite differently. Daylight is much less destructive on the image. With my large windows unblocked tons of light comes in, but it doesn't ruin the image as bad as blasting my screen with my 300 watt IKEA light. I don't know how many watts God's lights are but it's plenty more than 300 Why would more daylight be less destructive than less bulb light?

My theory is color temperature. Daylight looks more naturally white. When daylight ambient light affects my screen sure it ruins contrast ratio, but it isn't shifting the color tone of the whites and blacks on the screen. Interior lights, however, have a strong yellow cast to them. Even a little bit of this light, while only marginally affecting the contrast ratio, instantly shifts the color of whites and black, pulling them to yellow. A moderate amount of interior light makes whites and blacks much more yellow and seems to ruin the image in two ways (CR and color) rather than daylight only ruining CR. So why did I post this? I'm no expert so I'm hoping others might share their thoughts on this.

Why should anyone care? Well, from the video business I also know they make bulbs that are created to be daylight balanced. The color temperature of these daylight balanced bulbs is the same as daylight. If you could use these bulbs in your theater you'd be able to avoid the color shifting of normal interior lights. To me the CR loss doesn't seem nearly as bad if the light hitting the screen is also white. That way whites stay white and blacks just get more gray. Eventually your blacks cannot get any lighter than your screen color. So if you have a gray screen the blacks can't get lighter than that color and white is well white, it just stays white. With daylight ambient light hitting my screen the image seems to hold together much better even with massive amounts of ambient light.

On a side note, I think this is one reason why ambient light rejecting screen makers like DNP choose to photograph their products with lots of DAYLIGHT ambient light rather than bulb light. The DNP video demo was shot outside in broad daylight.

Please tell me what you think?
post #2 of 7
You make a very good point. Seems like incandescent would be more likely to shift colors than daylight, and this could be more objectionable than merely washing out the CR.

On the other hand, there is the theory that a mix could be formulated to reject incandescent and enhance RGB, making it possible to have a certain ambient light level while still getting a great picture. Window films have been considered for the same purpose - filtering out the particular wavelengths that most affect picture quality, yet still allowing normal daytime ambient levels.

Sounds like you have a lot to offer over in DIY Screens. Take a look at this thread:

RGB Paint Mix Experiments & Discussion
post #3 of 7
Thread Starter 
Here's a thought. Well two thoughts.

1. replace all your ambient lighting bulbs with daylight balanced light bulbs. This will throw a pure white light and be much less damaging to you screens image. I don't know what kind of options are out there for home use daylight balanced light bulbs - it's kind of a professional video/film lighting thing, but they do make gels that do the same thing. Cut them to size and figure out a way to hang them in front of your normal lights. The gels filter the light changing the color temperature to daylight. Don't tape them to the bulb, that might burn your house down but gels are made to withstand the heat of 1,000 watt Arri studio lights. They just need a little space to breath.

2. what about using the painted acrylic mirror technique pioneered by MississippiMud only frost the screen with an almost black layer. The trick would be to get the black thick enough that low ambient viewing light wouldn't be reflected much, but thin enough that the more powerful light of the projector could get through and be reflected by the mirror. This should also improve black levels. The trick would be getting it right so whites would be able to be reflected back and still look bright white. Any thoughts on whether this could work?
post #4 of 7
My only source of ambient is from incandescent lighting. I'm running only lampblack and white as a screen color. My projector is set to 7500K at about the point lampblack gray tests neutral. If my screen shows any blue push it's not enough for me to notice under ether no light or ambient. I will be watching some content from time to time and swear I'm seeing some push but then the next thing I view is totally warm and I forget about it. In ether case I'm sure the projector has more than enough range in its calibration to correct for lampblack only.

What I think we have to keep in mind is the pigments do not combine in most cases. They just lay next to each other on a microscopic level our eyes can't discern these tiny particles but light reflects off of each doing its own thing. When you pick a pigment to work with one color it would have to be an exact match for that color of light.

In my case the white pigment 99.5% of the paint is reflecting almost all the colors equal. And the black is absorbing most all and maybe reflecting a little blue.

That's why I was hoping to see some RGB data on the single pigments mixed in white. Its not just the matter of adding the peak values at color point its more like adding the areas under the curves on the spectral scale.
post #5 of 7
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post

That's why I was hoping to see some RGB data on the single pigments mixed in white. Its not just the matter of adding the peak values at color point its more like adding the areas under the curves on the spectral scale.


You just said so much cool stuff about paint that I can't begin to understand what it even means.
post #6 of 7
As to the original posted question.

As you know film in my youth was indoor or outdoor balanced and flash bulbs were clear and produced a yellow light. They came out with blue flash filters and blue flash bulbs that worked well for indoor or outdoors.

A mixture of incandescent and fluorescent lighting works pretty well for balance. GE has bulbs now called reveal that have a blue coating to balance the yellow.

As to what's in your purchased screen paint we don't know. Some of us that have been here a while suspect it's close in composition to some of the DIY mixes by other names.
post #7 of 7
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post

GE has bulbs now called reveal that have a blue coating to balance the yellow.

Looks like I need to pick up some GE reveal bulbs. My IKEA light doesn't have the standard round bulb connection but uses the taller more candle-like shaped bulb with the smaller connection. Hopefully GE has reveal bulbs in this size. If HD has them, I'll post a screen shot comparison between regular normal bulbs and the Reveal corrected bulbs and how they react to screens.
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