I have owned different types of bookshelf speakers and have been listening to a cobbled together system for HT for about three and a half years now. As it has grown and evolved, piece by piece it has gotten to the point where it sounds pretty good, but I am ready to take it to the next level. I know, lol, there seems to be a lot of that contagious sickness on this site=upgradeitis=can't cure that, can't cure that!
My system has evolved to the point where the front left and right speakers differ from the center and differ from the surrounds and differ from the rears.
I sought to try the identical speaker route, that is, just how much better and more coherent would a HT system be if it were composed of 6 identical speakers [accompanied, of course, by ample competent subwoofage]? There certainly is a group of individuals and reviewers and 'those who know' who suggest that the system composed of identical speakers allows for timbre matching at the least, and better panning of sound effects in movies and better experience of sacd music. My guess is that they are probably correct, so how do I attain that in my system?
Cheaply my friends, cheaply. I just don't have the fundage of a craigsub or the ear. Nor do I have the diy skills of many of the talented folks who share their projects in wonderful detail on this forum.
So I started to look for
1] what would fit in the room, allowing for the center speaker to be, not a horizontal center speaker, but the exact same as the other speakers, a bookshelf;
2] affordable;
3] excellent value for the money;
4] pleasing to the eye, not butt ugly;
5] able to disappear into the darkness when movies play;
6] dynamic, in the sense of having the ability to go from soft to loud quickly while still having the ability to 'whisper' when needed and be legible;
7] not compress when hitting the dynamic peaks;
8] be free from [audible to me] distortion;
9] posses ability to measure as a speaker with flat frequency response [since I have subwoofers the speaker should be good at what it does, play within its boundaries rather than trying to go too low]
10] SOUND QUALITY, must sound good to me.
Gee, want that to go sir? Will $40.00 per speaker be ok with you sir? Yes I know, pretty high expectations for bookshelves on a budget.
Some obvious options, powered small studio monitors. Probably meet much of the criteria listed above except with a few drawbacks or limitations.
1] gotta run power lines for the surrounds and rear speakers, the room is running rapidly out of electrical outlets as it is, what with tv, dvd, vcr, cable box, terk antennae, 3 subwoofers and oh yes the warden thinks the room should have lights and phone with answering machine and the kid wants an aquarium with lights and filters yada yada yada. Oh did I mention the incoming cable boxes and wireless lan and the shredder and all the other sh_t? Yea, running out of electric is bad
2] most of the monitors don't have grills in front so you have these nice exposed speakers. I can see my kid inviting over the chuckleheads for texas holdem poker tournament and me losing some tweeters and some chuckleheads losing their lives.
In all likely hood, the new JBL LSR 4326s would be absolutely fantastic from an audio standpoint, with computerized analysis of room effects on the sound and the ability to tune the speakers to the 'monitoring position'. Oh yea, it would probably allow for a very very superb listening experience in a surround system, what with the ample amplification and crossovers and sof]phisticated electronics, BUT, see 1 and 2 above. Besides, they ain't cheap, figure about 600 shipped a piece. Won't fly in the budget. I sure would like to hear a system composed of them or their big brothers the 4328s.
So I figured I would search the net for some ribbons, yea, that's it, ribbons. Smooth up top. I found HTD level three bookshelves and they looked interesting. Let's see, 30 day trial period, good size, transmission line low end, nice very nice how much? Let's say going in around 3 bills a pair. What do I have to lose? Nice price, I can live with that. ring ring order two in black thank you sir.
Found a thread talking about NHT new line, small bookshelf, supposed to be very nice. Found a thread about Infinity beta line, revel bookshelf, yeeha lets go.
Ok, cross off the revels. Tried calling the various folks who sell em, voice mail on a cell phone? Let's just say that I live in a large metropolitan area of the northeast-Philadelphia area there abouts- and I gotta struggle to find these speakers? No, I don't think so, I ain't chasin after these people to give them my money. Infinity betas. Same same. Where I come from the correct response is F em. Pardon my grossness. I don't like standing in line to give people my money.
I ordered the NHT's on line, no problem dealing with a guy named John.
ok, so what do we have?
I compared the following.
JBL S 38s. A competent well designed 3 way bookshelf. A little larger than I want for having 6 of them. I originally bought two of them cause I got them refurbished for a great price. They have served me well. A little bright, not a lot, just a little. Probably an over achiever. JBL did a very good job with this speaker. 8 inch ported woofer, 4 inch mid, 1 inch titanium tweeter in a eos wave guide. Provides better dispersion of frequencies into the room. Not a perfect speaker and I wanted better.
JBL 4408As. A two way monitor. I liked them. I used them for awhile. I sold them to a musician friend for his studio. He is thrilled with them. They actually sounded very similar to the S 38s. Or, should I say the 38s sounded like the monitors? Over all a flat frequency response speaker built like a tank. Too large, too heavy.
JBL 4412As. My darlings. Bought them used off of ebay and had one of those experiences where everything went well. Large three way studio monitor. 12" ported woofer, 4 inch midrange, 1 inch titanium tweeter. They certainly posses the flat frequency response, low distortion, low compression attributes. Having 6 of them in a large large theater would absolutely rock and sock the room. They are suprisingly delicate when needed. The one word I would use to describe them would be 'effortless'. Just too too darn big. They will go to the basement system where I will blast them while I work on various things. They are keepers. The warden says she can hear where everything is, like the band is in the room. She likes them and thinks they work in our room. God bless her I like that kind of acceptance of my craziness.
HTD Level 3. Very nicely built speaker. Like a small tight ship. Not real heavy like a tank but nice finish in flat matte black with black grill. Ribbons. Good size, good price. Too laid back and not clear enough. That is the bottom line. Would they make a very good system with 6 of them in a room. Absolutely. Would someone with need for a good system who was moving up to them from a smaller or less expensive system enjoy the crap out of them? Absolutely. Would someone like me moving from large studio monitors live with them, nope. They are nice at the top end, but they are too laid back for me. Could I correct this with EQ? Probably very nicely. Do they play loud? Yup. Cleanly? Yup. Do they compress or distort? Not to the levels I played them and I ain't shy with the volume button on the remote. [Excuse me sir, but isn't your sons room just above the rec room? yup, well it's kind of late shouldn't you turn down the system? nope. Gosh your crazy. Yup]. Just not enough for me in my system.
NHT classic threes. Very nicely built speaker. Nice finish. Shiny black finish. Actually smaller than the HTD's. Definitely smaller than all the JBLs. Sound? Yup, very nice. I compared them back and forth between the big JBLs and the two speaker are similar, very similar. Your not saying a small three way is able to keep up with the studio monitors are you? Real close, yes they are real close. They are not as efficient as the JBLs. The over all sound signature is very similar. Clean. Precise. Can you explain the differences between them? I will try. The NHTs are very good at letting you hear all the instruments very distinctly. Yea acoustic guitar or jazz guitar very distinct but how about some big band jazz with everyone blasting and cooking and playin as fast as they can how about it? Yes, good stuff. I listened to some Bob Mintzer and Maynard Ferguson (sp?) and yes they do a nice job. Of particular note, drums and cymbals are done very nice. I keep hearing things that make me look over at the speakers thinking that maybe something was happening in the room. More so than the JBLs. That is a good thing. Second point of distinction. They seem to have the ability to produce the 'edges' better. The beginning of a note produced by a flute and the end of the note. Quick. Agile. They separate the instrument's notes even better than the Jebels. Not by a lot. We are not comparing a 5 and a 9 out of ten, we are talking more ones an 8 and ones a 9. Not surprising when you think the JBLs are from late 80s and early 90s. Just proof of a good design effort and a good production effort on the part of JBL. The NHT with its more modern technology and whatever, has captured, at least for me, a very large part of a good reproduction experience producing an enjoyable listening experience FOR MY ROOM. They may not produce this for you in your room but I would say this speaker is a nice effort.
I will probably order 4 more and load up the room. They will fit and yes I can live with them. [for how long sir, how long??? shut up] I can probably live with them till I move or the freshman graduates and moves out. May be by then one of the other brats will hit the lottery or something good like that?
Are there other speakers I should listen to? Yea, but how much time and effort do we need to put into this? I would say probably onix, ascends, and all the other brands that are seriously doing the internet direct model, and who actually give a shi_ about how their product sounds and how they take care of their customers would also have a good product in this relative size and price range. Am I going to chase them all down and be absolutely sure I have the absolute best ? I think not, for the near term I can live with these. Is there something better? Probably. These will fit nicely on the walls etc. They do a very good job.
I will have to let you all know how the 'system' sounds when all the little puppies are singing in harmony.
Till then, continue the quest gents [and ladies] continue the quest and continue to build up the 'knowledge base' of just what is available in this great market place.
Isn't it great that we have these great choices? I think so.
I think next year I will upgrade the subwoofers-yea, thats the ticket, more subwoofers
can't cure that can' cure that
ciao
My system has evolved to the point where the front left and right speakers differ from the center and differ from the surrounds and differ from the rears.
I sought to try the identical speaker route, that is, just how much better and more coherent would a HT system be if it were composed of 6 identical speakers [accompanied, of course, by ample competent subwoofage]? There certainly is a group of individuals and reviewers and 'those who know' who suggest that the system composed of identical speakers allows for timbre matching at the least, and better panning of sound effects in movies and better experience of sacd music. My guess is that they are probably correct, so how do I attain that in my system?
Cheaply my friends, cheaply. I just don't have the fundage of a craigsub or the ear. Nor do I have the diy skills of many of the talented folks who share their projects in wonderful detail on this forum.
So I started to look for
1] what would fit in the room, allowing for the center speaker to be, not a horizontal center speaker, but the exact same as the other speakers, a bookshelf;
2] affordable;
3] excellent value for the money;
4] pleasing to the eye, not butt ugly;
5] able to disappear into the darkness when movies play;
6] dynamic, in the sense of having the ability to go from soft to loud quickly while still having the ability to 'whisper' when needed and be legible;
7] not compress when hitting the dynamic peaks;
8] be free from [audible to me] distortion;
9] posses ability to measure as a speaker with flat frequency response [since I have subwoofers the speaker should be good at what it does, play within its boundaries rather than trying to go too low]
10] SOUND QUALITY, must sound good to me.
Gee, want that to go sir? Will $40.00 per speaker be ok with you sir? Yes I know, pretty high expectations for bookshelves on a budget.
Some obvious options, powered small studio monitors. Probably meet much of the criteria listed above except with a few drawbacks or limitations.
1] gotta run power lines for the surrounds and rear speakers, the room is running rapidly out of electrical outlets as it is, what with tv, dvd, vcr, cable box, terk antennae, 3 subwoofers and oh yes the warden thinks the room should have lights and phone with answering machine and the kid wants an aquarium with lights and filters yada yada yada. Oh did I mention the incoming cable boxes and wireless lan and the shredder and all the other sh_t? Yea, running out of electric is bad
2] most of the monitors don't have grills in front so you have these nice exposed speakers. I can see my kid inviting over the chuckleheads for texas holdem poker tournament and me losing some tweeters and some chuckleheads losing their lives.
In all likely hood, the new JBL LSR 4326s would be absolutely fantastic from an audio standpoint, with computerized analysis of room effects on the sound and the ability to tune the speakers to the 'monitoring position'. Oh yea, it would probably allow for a very very superb listening experience in a surround system, what with the ample amplification and crossovers and sof]phisticated electronics, BUT, see 1 and 2 above. Besides, they ain't cheap, figure about 600 shipped a piece. Won't fly in the budget. I sure would like to hear a system composed of them or their big brothers the 4328s.
So I figured I would search the net for some ribbons, yea, that's it, ribbons. Smooth up top. I found HTD level three bookshelves and they looked interesting. Let's see, 30 day trial period, good size, transmission line low end, nice very nice how much? Let's say going in around 3 bills a pair. What do I have to lose? Nice price, I can live with that. ring ring order two in black thank you sir.
Found a thread talking about NHT new line, small bookshelf, supposed to be very nice. Found a thread about Infinity beta line, revel bookshelf, yeeha lets go.
Ok, cross off the revels. Tried calling the various folks who sell em, voice mail on a cell phone? Let's just say that I live in a large metropolitan area of the northeast-Philadelphia area there abouts- and I gotta struggle to find these speakers? No, I don't think so, I ain't chasin after these people to give them my money. Infinity betas. Same same. Where I come from the correct response is F em. Pardon my grossness. I don't like standing in line to give people my money.
I ordered the NHT's on line, no problem dealing with a guy named John.
ok, so what do we have?
I compared the following.
JBL S 38s. A competent well designed 3 way bookshelf. A little larger than I want for having 6 of them. I originally bought two of them cause I got them refurbished for a great price. They have served me well. A little bright, not a lot, just a little. Probably an over achiever. JBL did a very good job with this speaker. 8 inch ported woofer, 4 inch mid, 1 inch titanium tweeter in a eos wave guide. Provides better dispersion of frequencies into the room. Not a perfect speaker and I wanted better.
JBL 4408As. A two way monitor. I liked them. I used them for awhile. I sold them to a musician friend for his studio. He is thrilled with them. They actually sounded very similar to the S 38s. Or, should I say the 38s sounded like the monitors? Over all a flat frequency response speaker built like a tank. Too large, too heavy.
JBL 4412As. My darlings. Bought them used off of ebay and had one of those experiences where everything went well. Large three way studio monitor. 12" ported woofer, 4 inch midrange, 1 inch titanium tweeter. They certainly posses the flat frequency response, low distortion, low compression attributes. Having 6 of them in a large large theater would absolutely rock and sock the room. They are suprisingly delicate when needed. The one word I would use to describe them would be 'effortless'. Just too too darn big. They will go to the basement system where I will blast them while I work on various things. They are keepers. The warden says she can hear where everything is, like the band is in the room. She likes them and thinks they work in our room. God bless her I like that kind of acceptance of my craziness.
HTD Level 3. Very nicely built speaker. Like a small tight ship. Not real heavy like a tank but nice finish in flat matte black with black grill. Ribbons. Good size, good price. Too laid back and not clear enough. That is the bottom line. Would they make a very good system with 6 of them in a room. Absolutely. Would someone with need for a good system who was moving up to them from a smaller or less expensive system enjoy the crap out of them? Absolutely. Would someone like me moving from large studio monitors live with them, nope. They are nice at the top end, but they are too laid back for me. Could I correct this with EQ? Probably very nicely. Do they play loud? Yup. Cleanly? Yup. Do they compress or distort? Not to the levels I played them and I ain't shy with the volume button on the remote. [Excuse me sir, but isn't your sons room just above the rec room? yup, well it's kind of late shouldn't you turn down the system? nope. Gosh your crazy. Yup]. Just not enough for me in my system.
NHT classic threes. Very nicely built speaker. Nice finish. Shiny black finish. Actually smaller than the HTD's. Definitely smaller than all the JBLs. Sound? Yup, very nice. I compared them back and forth between the big JBLs and the two speaker are similar, very similar. Your not saying a small three way is able to keep up with the studio monitors are you? Real close, yes they are real close. They are not as efficient as the JBLs. The over all sound signature is very similar. Clean. Precise. Can you explain the differences between them? I will try. The NHTs are very good at letting you hear all the instruments very distinctly. Yea acoustic guitar or jazz guitar very distinct but how about some big band jazz with everyone blasting and cooking and playin as fast as they can how about it? Yes, good stuff. I listened to some Bob Mintzer and Maynard Ferguson (sp?) and yes they do a nice job. Of particular note, drums and cymbals are done very nice. I keep hearing things that make me look over at the speakers thinking that maybe something was happening in the room. More so than the JBLs. That is a good thing. Second point of distinction. They seem to have the ability to produce the 'edges' better. The beginning of a note produced by a flute and the end of the note. Quick. Agile. They separate the instrument's notes even better than the Jebels. Not by a lot. We are not comparing a 5 and a 9 out of ten, we are talking more ones an 8 and ones a 9. Not surprising when you think the JBLs are from late 80s and early 90s. Just proof of a good design effort and a good production effort on the part of JBL. The NHT with its more modern technology and whatever, has captured, at least for me, a very large part of a good reproduction experience producing an enjoyable listening experience FOR MY ROOM. They may not produce this for you in your room but I would say this speaker is a nice effort.
I will probably order 4 more and load up the room. They will fit and yes I can live with them. [for how long sir, how long??? shut up] I can probably live with them till I move or the freshman graduates and moves out. May be by then one of the other brats will hit the lottery or something good like that?
Are there other speakers I should listen to? Yea, but how much time and effort do we need to put into this? I would say probably onix, ascends, and all the other brands that are seriously doing the internet direct model, and who actually give a shi_ about how their product sounds and how they take care of their customers would also have a good product in this relative size and price range. Am I going to chase them all down and be absolutely sure I have the absolute best ? I think not, for the near term I can live with these. Is there something better? Probably. These will fit nicely on the walls etc. They do a very good job.
I will have to let you all know how the 'system' sounds when all the little puppies are singing in harmony.
Till then, continue the quest gents [and ladies] continue the quest and continue to build up the 'knowledge base' of just what is available in this great market place.
Isn't it great that we have these great choices? I think so.
I think next year I will upgrade the subwoofers-yea, thats the ticket, more subwoofers
can't cure that can' cure that
ciao
