Anyone running Windows Media Center through a scaler?

VP50 might work with the PREP feature, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Once MCE processes it and scales it up, you have little chance for real improvement.

I use a Lumagen HDQ with my HP Digital Entertainment Center and it works fine. I have to say that my results with DVD playback on the HP direct into the projector was quite good. The HP uses the nVidia 6600GT graphics card. I have read that the one of the best DVD upscaling playback solutions is provided by the Toshiba HD-XA2 which uses the Silicon Optix Reon for video processing and upscaling.

netarc,

VP50 beta feature.

Hi there, I have z557 which is Prescott powered DEC. On paper it looks a lot like the z558. I'm using DVI from the DEC to DVI on the Lumagen HDQ. I output 720p from the DEC and then scale it up to 1080p60 to output to a Sony VPL-VW100. I'm not using any middleware.

The one thing that one really needs to look at when talking about DVD quailty from MCE is the software dvd program that is used for playback on the computer itself. I would recommend upgrading to the latest version of NVIDIA's software dvd player. My brother had a pre-built MCE computer and it had very bad DVD playback. We did some investigating, it it came loaded with a very old version on WinDVD. After upgrading to the NVIDIA dvd player, the picture was much, much better.

Guys, I don't want to stir hornet's nest, or going OT, but my question is: Why would you use Computer AND VP together? Isn't the idea of using computer to play video (or audio for that matter), to use it's software and flexibility to make all the necessary processing?
Same with the VP: Why would you feed it preprocessed signal? Isn't direct link (aka SDI) the best option, giving the VP clean signal to do with it what it's designed to do?
Overprocessing signal can be very detrimental to it's quality...

Kris

@kris:

There are some good reasons for trying to pair a HTCP with a VP, most notably using the HTPC as a PVR and to play ripped DVDs from hard disk or NAS storage. VP's offer superior deinterlacing capabilities to what you can get with an HTPC.

I've been trying to get the HTPC paired with the VP50's PREP feature without much luck yet (but I'm not ready to throw in the towel!)

I have seen great results using PREP with a Zensonic Z500 outputing 480p over HDMI. Using the ABT test material disc's clips of the racecar going by the grandstand, it is a perfect lock with no moire or stair stepping on the grandstand using PREP.

When I set my HTPC to output 480p I don't get these good results. I fear the PC is doing too much with the signal such that the VP50 can't un-progressive-ize the video. I've tried it with Zoomplayer using Nvidia, Dscaler, and ffdshow MPEG decoding with a couple different deinterlacing methods (thinking a simple bob or weave would be the easiest for the VP50 to un-do), but I never get the same result that the Z500 over 480p with PREP delivers. I've also tried it with Windows Vista's Media Center with the same results.

Well, you sort of proved the point I was trying to hint at: According to your experience, it's the best to use PC as source (with as little of processing as possible), and leave all the sophisticated manipulations to VP. I bet, in your scenario, it would have been even better to get 480i form your source...
By the way, what exactly is "PREP"? Sorry, I don't know V50, I am Lumagen guy ...
I think, I might be interesting for you to look into Network version of OPPO, I think it actually CAN do 480i over DVI connection, or maybe try SDI Output Card for PC? That would give you cleanest signal, and completely digital path, don't you think?

Kris

Got a link?

TIA!
____
Axel

I can't find anything about OPPO (their current line doesn't include networked player... I might have been wrong to begin with ! but they DO have one outputting 480i over DVI/HDMI: www.oppodigital.com ), but Neodigits does have one: http://www.neodigits.com/new/body/pr...3000.asp#specs and it outputs 480i, not sure though if it can do it over DVI... Go figure...

Hope it helps,

Kris

As far as I know there are no Oppo network media players. If they ever come out with one I'll probably give it a shot.

Plenty of options out there for a standalone player including the best, SDI, as you mention. Been there, done that, and even did the SDI out of my HTPC using the Xcard and PMS SDI output add on to it...unfortunately the Xcard SDI only works with PMS VP's as no other vendor deigns to enable negative SDI polarity. I had a Crystalio for a couple of years and it was great with the Xcard, but when it came time to buy a new VP I went with DVDO. For one thing I was sick to death of paying $200 round trip freight to Hong Kong whenever the Crystalio needed service.

The Zensonic Z500 is pretty good...but it still doesn't play all .iso and .ifo's that you throw at it, and the user interface is slow and a bit cumbersome, and it has some random reboots still. I'm kind of sick of being at the mercy of the manufacturer for firmware updates.

I also have the Neodigits X3000...which unfortunately has zero capabilities for .ifo/.iso, so no DVD menus there. And no, it does not offer 480i over DVI/HDMI. None of the players based on the current Sigma chipset do.

Which leaves us with PREP. PREP (I think it is "Progressive Reprocessing") takes a 480p input and reverses the poor deinterlacing from the source and then applies the ABT deinterlacing. Sounds a bit magical, but my tests have proven to me that it does indeed work, at least with the Z500 source. Now I just need to crack the problem of getting it a 480p signal from the HTPC that it will like.

Thanks for explanation! - LIVE and LEARN!
One of the OPPOs does output 480i over DVI (no idea about chipset...), but it does not have any network capabilities, so it's no solution either...
Personally I am in HD camp almost exclusively (A1 and getting Blu-ray, most likely Phillips), only thing I am still thinking about is upgrading from LumagenHDP to HDQ (primarily for more DVI/HDMI inputs), and since it has SDI input standard, getting SDI modded DVD Player for legacy SD-DVDs. think is will get me very close to THE BEST upconversion (whatever it is), for reasonable effort and money. After all, there is only so much you can do with 480i...

Kris

some video processors also perform a switching funtion as well and in that capacity my Lumagen HDQ performs very well. Also having two video outputs on the Lumagen HDQ allows me to feed two different projectors. Pairing my media center with the Lumagen HDQ allows considerable viewing flexibility. A media center computer is just another video source to me.

Just an update on this...with the latest Nvidia drivers I have succeeded in getting 480p out of my Vista Ultimate HTPC to be locked on by the VP50's PREP feature. The VP50 deinterlacing is superior to what the Nvidia drivers offer today on Vista. Toggling PREP on and off shows that the VP50 is doing the deinterlacing on test patterns from the HQV/ABT test disc. I am using the Microsoft out of the box MPEG and audio decoders and have hardware accelration turned off to achieve this.

Here is what you have to do. Your computer has to send your monitors native res to the vp. If that is XGA, 720 or 1080 you'll be fine. If it's something else you need a passtrough on the vp to get the most out of it. Everything else will be a big compromise. Usually the next best thing is 1080i, but you have to try and find out. On film/video material it often will be ok running 720 or 1080, but any browsing or other computer work will look like crap.

Thanks for your update. Sounds intriguing!

Please remind us again, what card and drivers as well as what display/native res. you use.

TIA!

____
Axel

Just curious if you're using firmware 1.03 on the VP50 ? I've been using PREP since it was added, using a HTPC at 480P. I did have problems at first getting the VP50 to accept it, but wasn't very hard to correct the problem. But recently, and I'm pretty sure its since I installed 1.03, it won't lock onto the 490P signal unless I turn the VP50 on first, then the pc.

If I don't have the VP50 on the right input, or if I leave the input the pc uses and try to go back, it won't lock in. Most times I can turn the VP50 off and back on it will then lock. I just find it weird this started after the firmware upgrade recently.

I use Theatertek with ffdshow and PRep. I just simply get a better picture that way on a 110 inch screen with a 720 pj.

I haven't gone to VP50 firmware 1.03 yet. Still using...1.02 I think, or whatever the latest prior version was before 1.03.

Are you running XP or Vista? I struggled mightily to get PREP to work on 480p output from Vista up until the latest Nvidia drivers came out. I had it working from VLC on an Ubuntu machine as well, but VLC has so many bugs when it comes to DVD menu navigation that I had to walk away from that as a solution.

I also haven't turned my VP50 off in over a month or so, so maybe I have the same pattern you do where the VP50 needs to be on 1st.

I'm using XP. It was working fine until recently, but I haven't took time yet to see exactly what might be the problem. It doesn't matter that the vp50 is on, after I leave that input, its just whether or not its on the input of the pc. In other words everytime I leave input two, which is the pc, it won't lock back in until I turn the vp50 off. The only thing is the first time it happen I couldn't get it back even turning the vp50 off, had to shut down the pc and start over.

I'm pretty sure it happen after 1.03. 1.01 is the one before and I haven't loaded 1.04 yet.

Well, I'm going to change most of the pc soon because of wanting to play HD, so maybe I won't try too hard figuring it out for now.

I have had great success with EVGA Nvidia 6800 GTS and Windows Vista Ultimate MCE on a BenQ W9000. No jaggies, excellent color reproduction and excellent resolution. I either output at 1080p60 or 1080p24. So far I prefer 24. The difference between this set up and the new Toshiba HD-A20 is night and day. I am very dissapointed with the A20 and I will be returning ot. I have not tried a comparison with the Realta XA2.

Given my results, I could not possibly see how a VP would improve picture quality at least to a point where the extra cost would be justified.

The HD-XA2 uses the Reon VX chip not the big iron Realta. I had an XA2 briefly for about 3 days. I didn't like it, the menu screens were fuzzy and this was on a 1080p60 capable LCD. It was noisy and it was just cheap looking and tacky compared to the Sony BDP-S1. I returned it for the BDP-S1.

Can this card pass 480i (720x480 interlace in DVD play mode) through the daughter DVI card? Will the stream be w/o DA/AD conversion? This software does have 480i output mode. How is hardware decoder quality? Thanks.