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Infinity Beta Owners - Page 71

post #2101 of 2330
For anyone interested Infinity is having a major sale on their best speakers. Looks to me like a death knell for the Infinity brand as we know it.

http://www.harmanaudio.com/search_br...m_campaign=em2
post #2102 of 2330
I was back on craigslist browsing again and the posting for the Beta 50s I saw a month or so ago is down to $425 from the original asking price of $600. I'm still on the fence about it, but am leaning towards picking them up.

I've never bought used speakers before, so I was curious as to whether there are any certain questions I should ask or things I should be looking for to determine whether the speakers are in good condition or have been abused?
post #2103 of 2330
Did you get them?
post #2104 of 2330
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlestyx View Post

I was back on craigslist browsing again and the posting for the Beta 50s I saw a month or so ago is down to $425 from the original asking price of $600. I'm still on the fence about it, but am leaning towards picking them up.

I've never bought used speakers before, so I was curious as to whether there are any certain questions I should ask or things I should be looking for to determine whether the speakers are in good condition or have been abused?

Look for scratches, dents, marks, etc... Also, look at the screw heads to see if there's any scratches on them. Listen to every single driver (get your ear up next to them at low volume) and see if there's anything funny sounding. Decide if they're in good enough condition for the price and buy 'em.
post #2105 of 2330
How well does the Beta 50 crank? I'm thinking of getting a used pair. I have a pair of JBL L80t3 speakers that are 10" 3-ways, basically home versions of the JBL 4410 studio monitor. They're my most powerful speakers, good for rock. Has anyone owned the Betas and any of those classic JBL 3-way speakers? How do they compare? I don't have money and space to keep both.
post #2106 of 2330
The Beta-50's, bi-amped off my receiver do ok, though they're not as loud as the Cerwin Vega LS-12's I have. I've never heard the JBL's you're referring to.
post #2107 of 2330
Quote:
Originally Posted by GLBright View Post
Did you get them?
I didn't end up getting them as I found out that one of the speakers had a dent in the cone after falling on something during a move. They said it still worked and sounded fine but I was a bit hesitant. The seller is 2.5 hrs away and didn't have time to make the drive up to listen them myself.

I recently found another seller in my area and am looking into those. They also have a csw10 available as well. Anyone familiar with that subwoofer?
post #2108 of 2330
Look at the reviews of the CSW-10 here and then decide. Looks pretty good to me. It uses a CMMD driver and will definitely improve the overall sound of your system. Get it.

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-kgoHPNy...tml?tab=review
post #2109 of 2330
Depending on the price, the CSW-10 will be fine. It's a sealed 10" so it's not going to be a power house of a sub.
post #2110 of 2330
I respectfully disagree about the CSW-10 not being a powerhouse. I designed it. The trick is to set the CSW-10 up in a corner with the RABOS properly and meticulously calibrated using the supplied RABOS kit. The room gain you'll get from the acoustic coupling of corner placement in conjunction with the flat frequency response you'll achieve once you get OUT the primary high-Q resonance peak caused by the CSW-10's interaction with the room/corner will easily yield a steady state full bandwidth SPL of 104.5 dB from 26 Hz to 80-100Hz.

The CSW-10's amp is a real world 400+ RMS amp but dynamically, when it matters on most on bass transients, the CSW-10s 10" driver can belt out ~112dB bass notes cleanly. Again, the trick is to corner load this little guy and spend some time with the RABOS calibration.
post #2111 of 2330
I was pretty sure PLHart designed this sub as well as most of the Beta line. Pull the trigger.
post #2112 of 2330
Quote:
Originally Posted by plhart View Post

I respectfully disagree about the CSW-10 not being a powerhouse. I designed it.

We just have different ideas as to what makes a power house sub. While the CSW10 is quite the performer, I think a powerhouse sub is one that can perform up to THX's specs of 115db at the listening position, because that is a tall order.

Side note: Can you tell me who worked the magic on the Beta-20's? I find they sound better than any of the other Beta series speakers, yet the crossovers are a minimalist design. 5 components if I remember correctly. The bass is a tad heavy, but listening to them w/o grilles helps.
post #2113 of 2330
I designed the Beta 20.

Regarding the THX "spec" of 115dB. I believe that is a THX level one spec and that it is that 115dB requirement, if followed to the letter, that is, if the manufacturer isn't fooling with the numbers or his measurement techniques, and he is willing to pay the extra cost burden THX certification implies, can only truly be met in rooms over 2000 cubic feet by (usually) a subwoofer running a 15" or double twelves.

If memory serves, the CSW-10 measured by THX Select 2 specs, for rooms under 2000 cubic feet, was at 104.5 dB, 30Hz to 100Hz, only 1/2 dB short of being certifiable. But the Beta series price point wouldn't allow the extra cost burden of THX certification in the first place. That cost burden is, after all passed onto you the consumer as a higher SRP.

IMO The simple fact of the matter is that once one can achieve 105 dB with a single compact sub the next logical upgrade is to add a second sub which automatically gives you another 6dB of subwoofing plus the likelihood of a smoother response at the listening position. This is especially true if you're willing to work a bit with the RABOS calibration during initial set-up.
post #2114 of 2330
Unfortunately, the seller is not willing to separate the speakers and I don't need the entire system. (pair of 50s, pair of 20s, csw10 and C360) Although the only thing I don't really have a use for is the C360, so maybe I should see what kind of price I can get the set for.

Currently I have an eD A2-300, how would the csw10 pair with it?
post #2115 of 2330
IMHO Until Audyssey's MultEQ XT came on the scene the splice of any subwoofer to any satellite was a real crap shoot based necessarily on the real world physics of long frequency lengths versus room interaction(s) with the listener at the listening position.

Because the CSW-10 has built-in RABOS it has the potential to smooth it's primary speaker/room interaction peak which in my assessment makes it better able to sound psycho-acoustically to the listener like it is "mating better". Because if the RABOS calibration is done well (at 80-100Hz max) through repeated tries to get it really right in the calibration process the CSW-10 will indeed be mating better with any given satellite.

As I intimated at the beginning though IMO it is only with the additional further precise (but automatically performed) calibration of at least some version of Audyssey that the subwoofer-to-satellite splice has the potential capability of approaching becoming undetectable and "seamless" to the listener(s) at the RABOS + Audyssey calibrated listening position(s). This is because the satellite roll-off curve and the bump or dip the satellite's designed-in curve takes also needs to be smoothed to ensure that seamlessly spliced transition.
post #2116 of 2330
Quote:
Originally Posted by plhart View Post

IMHO Until Audyssey's MultEQ XT came on the scene the splice of any subwoofer to any satellite was a real crap shoot based necessarily on the real world physics of long frequency lengths versus room interaction(s) with the listener at the listening position.

Because the CSW-10 has built-in RABOS it has the potential to smooth it's primary speaker/room interaction peak which in my assessment makes it better able to sound psycho-acoustically to the listener like it is "mating better". Because if the RABOS calibration is done well (at 80-100Hz max) through repeated tries to get it really right in the calibration process the CSW-10 will indeed be mating better with any given satellite.

As I intimated at the beginning though IMO it is only with the additional further precise (but automatically performed) calibration of at least some version of Audyssey that the subwoofer-to-satellite splice has the potential capability of approaching becoming undetectable and "seamless" to the listener(s) at the RABOS + Audyssey calibrated listening position(s). This is because the satellite roll-off curve and the bump or dip the satellite's designed-in curve takes also needs to be smoothed to ensure that seamlessly spliced transition.

That would seem to be a logical choice: run Audyssey on top of RABOS. But that is not my experience with 2 Infinity subs and XT32. I had done what you suggested, then zeroed out RABOS and let XT32 deal with the subs. The difference was not subtle and for the better. So one should try it the way that you suggest, then go back and try it without RABOS. If RABOS is all that one has for sub management, then, of course, use it. So my comment only applies if one has XT32, straight XT: I can't write anything about it because I have never used it.
post #2117 of 2330
I have a question I asked elsewhere (http://forums.audioholics.com/forums...ad.php?t=74789) but I'd like to hear from an actual engineer on it. Aside from the timbre-matching issues, are there any phase problems when you mix different brands of L&Rs with a center, especially with 3-way speakers? I know speakers sometimes have drivers out of phase with each other. If I mix speakers, is it possible that I cold end up with my speakers in phase in the bass but out of phase in the mids or highs? And would this cause audible problems?

I ask this because I've built up a collection of speakers bought used at low prices, but they usually only come in stereo pairs. I'm wondering if I can buy one good center speaker (like maybe the Beta C360) and use it with whatever L&Rs I end up settling on.
post #2118 of 2330
Current 5.0 setup is Beta 40s (front, bi-wired) Beta 20s (back) and a Beta 360 center, receiver is an Onkyo TX-SR706B.
(not using Outlaw sub-woofer because I share wall/floor with neighbors)
If I bought a pair of Beta 10s for a 7.1 setup, would it be better to use the 10s as the surround speakers, and the 20s as back, or use the 10s as back speakers and use the 20s as surrounds?
(I would no longer bi-wire the 40s).
post #2119 of 2330
If it was me, I'd stay with the 5.1 (or 5.0) setup. No real need for 7ch unless you have a big room. If you do, going with a 7ch design just robs power from the other channels, so you may as well upgrade you're power too with a 3ch amp for the mains.

When you said bi-wire, I think you meant bi-amp?
post #2120 of 2330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Looneybomber View Post

If it was me, I'd stay with the 5.1 (or 5.0) setup. No real need for 7ch unless you have a big room. If you do, going with a 7ch design just robs power from the other channels, so you may as well upgrade you're power too with a 3ch amp for the mains.

When you said bi-wire, I think you meant bi-amp?

Yes, Bi-Amping, I get the two mixed up.
post #2121 of 2330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacoboy View Post

Current 5.0 setup is Beta 40s (front, bi-wired) Beta 20s (back) and a Beta 360 center, receiver is an Onkyo TX-SR706B.
(not using Outlaw sub-woofer because I share wall/floor with neighbors)
If I bought a pair of Beta 10s for a 7.1 setup, would it be better to use the 10s as the surround speakers, and the 20s as back, or use the 10s as back speakers and use the 20s as surrounds?
(I would no longer bi-wire the 40s).

Don't disagree in principle with Looneybomber on power considerations, but I doubt it will be an issue in practice, and I suggest at least trying 7.1. It will be a subtle effect on most material. Controlled listening tests with good multichannel material reveal most people prefer 7.1 to 5.1. If you are hearing lots of localization from the back surrounds, you're not set up right. The benefit should be a greater sense of envelopment. I use Logic 7 for all music sources and sometimes upmix 5.1 movie soundtracks. Just wish there were more discrete 7.1 soundtracks. You may find that 7.1 is not worth the hassle at this time. Especially if you only listen to music in stereo. If you don't think it's worth it, then no harm done.

If you do it, a couple of suggestions. Try not to have the back surrounds directly across from the opposite side fronts. With back surrounds, you can move the side surrounds up slightly ahead of the seating area. You can find the layout diagrams on Dolby's site or in a Harman Kardon receiver manual (available online from their website). That layout is the international standard that was used in the controlled listening tests. It is also the layout recording engineers should but don't always follow

It really won't matter whether you use the Beta 10s or 20s as side or back surrounds. The added bass extension of the 20s will be not be used with your receiver's surround channel crossover. The only issue with both would be the rear ports. They need room away from walls to breathe.
post #2122 of 2330
Hi fellow Beta owners,

About 3 years ago I purchased a pair of Beta 20s through Harmon's ebay (great deal back then). I used these for about a year and loved them.

However, unfortunately due to moving and the use of my Primus (P362s) these did not get used for about 1.5 years.

I just hooked them up again but they voices sound murky and almost if listening to background music. Do I need to "warm them up again" or do you think something went wrong in the storage process?

I'm hoping to revive these bad boys if possible. Please let me know if anyone has had a similar issue.
post #2123 of 2330
[quote=plhart;20758318]I designed the Beta 20.

I just wanted to congraduate you for designing a wonderful speaker for the money.

Along with the 20's I'm using a C250 (both in Cherry) and OSW-1's (in white), a Dayton branded 10" HSU knock-off sub and an OPPO 83SE with an H/K 7200 receiver. A fairly simple system by todays standards but the combination sounds wonderful. The vocals are very warm and fuzzy, more bass output than a speaker that size should have and the tweeter only makes itself known when needed. The Cherry models also look terrific. Not sure how you did it (looks like a stain?) but the result is very satisfying. The C250 is a very underated center speaker. The 7200 sounds like a perfect fit for the Beta series. All 5 speakers and the receiver were purchased used about 1-2 years ago for less than $600 (I'm a good shopper!). Money well spent IMO.
post #2124 of 2330
Quote:
Originally Posted by joseph22 View Post

Hi fellow Beta owners,

About 3 years ago I purchased a pair of Beta 20s through Harmon's ebay (great deal back then). I used these for about a year and loved them.

However, unfortunately due to moving and the use of my Primus (P362s) these did not get used for about 1.5 years.

I just hooked them up again but they voices sound murky and almost if listening to background music. Do I need to "warm them up again" or do you think something went wrong in the storage process?

I'm hoping to revive these bad boys if possible. Please let me know if anyone has had a similar issue.

Not a "warm up" issue. Is the speaker wire polarity matched? Are they adequately powered (and they really don't need much)? Not a source or amp issue? Then, it's the speaker. Check and confirm which one. If both behave the same, then that suggests some issue external to the speakers.

Both of my Beta 20s pairs came from Harmanaudio via Ebay. Of the four speakers, one sounded similar to the way you described. It was like the tweeter was muted, muffled, covered up, etc. No visible damage, so who knows specifically what was wrong. I returned it and they sent me a new one.

Good luck--
post #2125 of 2330
I'm having an issue with the Infinity CSW-10 sub. I leave it plugged in with the switch on and when it first receives an audio signal I get a pop then a sort of whistle noise. It goes away in just a few seconds and then I don't hear it again until the next day when I turn the TV on again. Is this a grounding issue? Maybe a component on the internal amp going bad? Anyone else experience this?
post #2126 of 2330
good day to all! first of all im a newbie to this forum and i don't know much about HT.

Presently my dad has an
INIFINITY BETA 10
BETA 40
BETA C250
sw12 230 sub woofer
powered by a denon avr 3805/al24 processing plus
and denon dvd 2910

this system was barely used, now implanning on upgrading the denon because its not HDMI compatible and the dvd player is not working anymore. Any suggestions what to do with the system? Thanks!
post #2127 of 2330
I would plan keeping the speakers and sub, and simply upgrading to a new receiver. This is the cheapest, and will most likely end up being your best option.
post #2128 of 2330
@zryder whats the best value for money amp that would match my infinity speakers?
post #2129 of 2330
if you are looking for an external amp, look at Emotiva. They have done well. If you are looking for a receiver, that is all personal taste. I am running a Pioneer SC-05 with mine.
post #2130 of 2330
I love my Beta system, but wish I went for the C360 instead (to match with 4 Beta 20's). I feel the C250 is the weakest part of my system...I'm always wanting more clarity from it.
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