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post #691 of 2259
Quote:
Originally Posted by emiller1181 View Post

I put my C360 on a homemade stand on my CRT TV and it was discoloring the picture a little bit. I put another board under the speaker to get it about 3 inches from the TV. It was discoloring the top inch or so a tiny bit, to the point where I don't notice too much anymore.

I have noticed that whites are looking a little yellow on my TV now. Could the speaker be doing this or is my TV just getting old? It's a 27" RCA I got about 3 and a half years ago for $300, it's nothing special.

Anyone else having this problem?

I do not have a CRT but a speaker could be causing this problem (and they can cause permanent damage). Google CRT and magnet and you can read plenty about the effect with more adequate explanations than I could give. My best advice would be that it is time to upgrade to an LCD or plasma. I am fairly confident that they do not use magnets in their displays.
post #692 of 2259
Quote:
Originally Posted by emiller1181 View Post

I put my C360 on a homemade stand on my CRT TV and it was discoloring the picture a little bit. I put another board under the speaker to get it about 3 inches from the TV. It was discoloring the top inch or so a tiny bit, to the point where I don't notice too much anymore.

I have noticed that whites are looking a little yellow on my TV now. Could the speaker be doing this or is my TV just getting old? It's a 27" RCA I got about 3 and a half years ago for $300, it's nothing special.

Anyone else having this problem?


That is strange. The center is magnetically shielded, and should not be interfering with your TV. Is your speaker still under warranty? If so, I would contact Infinity.
post #693 of 2259
Quote:
Originally Posted by DamageMcRamage View Post

That is strange. The center is magnetically shielded, and should not be interfering with your TV. Is your speaker still under warranty? If so, I would contact Infinity.

Well, there is no such thing as 100% shielding. I noticed the same when I had a 35"CRT. I put a metal plate between them.

It is quite easy to remove the speaker to see if it is causing the problem. Why ask us when only you can determine the answer?

What I have seen is local (near the top) color distortion. Remove the speaker, degauss, and look at it.
post #694 of 2259
emiller1181-

I would advise against removing any speaker drivers! There will be nothing to “see”. From your description of “slight discoloring the picture a little bit ” on your $300 RCA 27” I’d say that the C-360 is performing within the two gauss specification limit (measured at all speaker surfaces) that I used on all Beta series models.

Most times it is not economically feasible to completely shield a speaker so that no flux leakage can be measured. To establish the two gauss (maximum) spec for the C-360 I placed my engineering sample C-360 on a “worst case” TV which we had in the Harman Lab for just such tests. The “worst case” TV was the lowest priced 36” flat screen CRT that Sony made. (Sony’s are notorious for their susceptibility to screen distortion from stray magnetic flux because of their “one-gun” design.)

The reasoning was that the C-360, being so large would probably never be placed on a smaller CRT and that if just a little distortion could be seen on the Sony 36” with the C-360 in direct contact then the shielding was acceptable for 99%+ of the C-360’s most likely purchasers.

Another part of the equation was that even if a C-360 customer did have the Sony 36” that all they would have to do would be to hit the auto-degauss button (which all 36” sets had at the time), then reposition the speaker a bit further away. And “no harm, no foul” or so the reasoning goes when you’re making engineering decisions based on cost and the likelihood of such a problem cropping up out in the marketplace.

Unfortunately, emiller1181, your $300 27” RCA would not have been a under consideration for it’s susceptibility to stray flux when the C-360 itself was designed to retail for $395 back 4 ½ years ago when I designed it. Sorry, but your set will probably need degaussing to get rid of the yellow hue and I don’t believe Harman Customer Service will feel very inclined to accept responsibility.

Patrick Hart
post #695 of 2259
Quote:


I would advise against removing any speaker drivers!

uhh... neither would I. I meant move the C360 off the TV.
post #696 of 2259
Quote:
Originally Posted by plhart View Post

emiller1181-

I would advise against removing any speaker drivers! There will be nothing to see. From your description of slight discoloring the picture a little bit on your $300 RCA 27 I'd say that the C-360 is performing within the two gauss specification limit (measured at all speaker surfaces) that I used on all Beta series models.

Most times it is not economically feasible to completely shield a speaker so that no flux leakage can be measured. To establish the two gauss (maximum) spec for the C-360 I placed my engineering sample C-360 on a worst case TV which we had in the Harman Lab for just such tests. The worst case TV was the lowest priced 36 flat screen CRT that Sony made. (Sony's are notorious for their susceptibility to screen distortion from stray magnetic flux because of their one-gun design.)

The reasoning was that the C-360, being so large would probably never be placed on a smaller CRT and that if just a little distortion could be seen on the Sony 36 with the C-360 in direct contact then the shielding was acceptable for 99%+ of the C-360's most likely purchasers.

Another part of the equation was that even if a C-360 customer did have the Sony 36 that all they would have to do would be to hit the auto-degauss button (which all 36 sets had at the time), then reposition the speaker a bit further away. And no harm, no foul or so the reasoning goes when you're making engineering decisions based on cost and the likelihood of such a problem cropping up out in the marketplace.

Unfortunately, emiller1181, your $300 27 RCA would not have been a under consideration for it's susceptibility to stray flux when the C-360 itself was designed to retail for $395 back 4 ½ years ago when I designed it. Sorry, but your set will probably need degaussing to get rid of the yellow hue and I don't believe Harman Customer Service will feel very inclined to accept responsibility.

Patrick Hart


Thanks for the reply Patrick and all other posters who replyed,

Like I said, the TV is nothing special, so the fact that it is probably screwed up for good doesn't bother me too much. I'm hoping to get a plasma this summer, so I can live with it til then.
Any idea what the effect it will have on the TV for 3 or 4 months? Will it keep getting worse and worse?
I can put the speaker to the side of the TV if need be, but I prefer having it on top.

Thanks again,

Elliott.
post #697 of 2259
Quote:
Originally Posted by iolmaster View Post

Paul Hart, the person on the Beta design team, has time to time participated in these discussions. I certainly can't speak for him but he described his Beta system at one point. He has Beta 10s all around with a CSW-10. As I remember it he was of the opinion that if a good sub is included you don't need floorstanders. I took his advice and replicated his system and have been very pleased. I have a large room and plenty of amp power and The system never seems to strain. In my opinion you only need full range speakers if you are going to be listening to music without a sub. I must admit that with the Beta system it is strictly HT not music. I have an Adcom coupled with some old DCM TF-1000s that I use for music.


Patrick Hart,

I was wondering if you would be so kind and respond to this post. I have a C360, a pair of Beta 10's for the front and a Bic H-100. I need to save some money before buying another set of speakers and haven't been able to decide whether to get 10's, 20's or 40's.

I use my surround sound for HT only and currently live in an apartment so I don't have it at earth shattering volumes.

Would another pair of 10's or 20's with a better sub down the road be sufficient, or do you think it would be wise to save a few extra dollars and get a pair of 40's?

Thanks a lot,

Elliott.
post #698 of 2259
I will hopefully have the new set of speakers before this weekend! I ordered 4 BETA 50's and a C360. They are a steal right now on crutchfield. They have free shipping and are willing to deal with you a little as well I also got a pair of BETA 10's to put in our bedroom system. Anyone know the best way to wall mount the 10's?

The reason I am going with 4 towers is because of music. I have a quite a few MC DVD-A and SACD disks tha I cannot wait to hear in the glory of real speakers. I now have to make room for the center channel in my small TV-stand/rack! I will post pics this weekend!
post #699 of 2259
Quote:
Originally Posted by zworykin View Post

Assuming you buy a decent sub, there's really no need to "match" the sub to the speakers in any way other than aesthetically.

Yes, I couldn't agree more. IMHO...when it comes to subs, velodyne should be on anyone and everyone's list for serious consideration as a match to the Beta line.

I mention this as there is a Velodyne thread under the subwoofer forums where ANYONE looking for a sub can get help from Curt at Velodyne. He monitors the forums and helped me with my set up as well. I have an entry level audiophile ear on a poor man's budget. I got lucky in finding these great buys (see list below). However, I made the mistake of buying a $99 sony 12" sub at BB on black Friday (the reg price was about $199)...oh, it did play loud...but it was somewhat boomy and at low volumes very muddy...I returned it. I purchased a Velodyne VX-10 last week from Vanns dotcom. This is their entry level 10" sub. Vann's had it for $169, free shipping and no tax. And they are an authorized dealer.

To say this blends well with my Beta 20s is an understatement. Curt helped with the settings on my receiver and on the sub. Accuracy and tight bass was more important to me then shaking the walls (though you can do that with this sub) as I live in a one bedroom apt. The 20s don't go quite low enough for my tastes. That's fine, as they do everything else so well, sweet open highs, wonderful soundstaging and great with voices. I never find the sound fatiguing. That was probably the most important factor in my choice of systems on my tight budget. I cannot get over how musical this sub is. My tastes run from smooth jazz to Bruce Springsteen. Today I was listening and re-discovering how great Natalie Coles 1991, Unforgettable CD sounds...smooth as silk with the Beta 20s....and a great bottom end with the Velodyne

just adding my 2 cents

gregg

velodyne thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...04306&page=143


Receiver: Denon AVR-1707 (display from BB $200 Dec. 2007, reg. retail: $450)
Fronts: Infinity Beta 20 ($170* Dec. 2007 on eebay)
Rears: Infinity RS1 ($70* on eebay 2 years ago)
Center: Infinity Entra ($30* on eebay 2 years ago)
Sub: Velodyne VX-10 ($169* at Vanns)

*shipping included
post #700 of 2259
Originally Posted by emiller1181
"I put my C360 on a homemade stand on my CRT TV and it was discoloring the picture a little bit. I put another board under the speaker to get it about 3 inches from the TV. It was discoloring the top inch or so a tiny bit, to the point where I don't notice too much anymore. I have noticed that whites are looking a little yellow on my TV now. Could the speaker be doing this or is my TV just getting old? It's a 27" RCA I got about 3 and a half years ago for $300, it's nothing special. Anyone else having this problem?"



_________________________________________________

Yes, I still have a tube and had the same problem. But I knew that could happen. You may be able to correct the problem with a de-gaussing ring (it creates a very powerful magnetic field of sorts when you plug it in). You can probably find one on eeebay for about $30. If you get one follow all directions carefully (google if necessary). A technician will do exactly the same thing. All tv techs have one of these. They run this ring around the front edge of the tube. WARNING: it can also erase vhs sound, floppy discs, flash drives, memory cards, computer hard drives, credit cards' magnetic strip, effect a wrist watch and even possibly erase your cable dvr's hard drive...so if you use one make sure you get that stuff far away from the tv first.

On my tv, it was blue in the corners and would change as I moved the speakers. I have no problems with my current set-up.

good luck

gregg
post #701 of 2259
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregginflorida View Post

_________________________________________________

Yes, I still have a tube and had the same problem. But I knew that could happen. You may be able to correct the problem with a de-gaussing ring (it creates a very powerful magnetic field of sorts when you plug it in). You can probably find one on eeebay for about $30. If you get one follow all directions carefully (google if necessary). A technician will do exactly the same thing. All tv techs have one of these. They run this ring around the front edge of the tube. WARNING: it can also erase vhs sound, floppy discs, flash drives, memory cards, computer hard drives, credit cards' magnetic strip, effect a wrist watch and even possibly erase your cable dvr's hard drive...so if you use one make sure you get that stuff far away from the tv first.

On my tv, it was blue in the corners and would change as I moved the speakers. I have no problems with my current set-up.

good luck

gregg


Gregg,

I took the speaker off yesterday and unplugged the TV for about 45 minutes and turned it on to do the TV's degaussing. I don't notice the yellow tint on the TV as much, maybe I'm just used to it. The discoloration on the top of the screen went away though.
I guess I didn't realize how big the magnents are in the 360.

Thanks all for the help.

BTW, Anyone wondering if the Beta C360 is a good speaker, it's amazing.
post #702 of 2259
Well I got all 7 speakers today from UPS. It looks like the 50's got a roto-rooter session at the warehouse. @ of the 4 had big gaping holes in the boxes. I am having Crutchfield ship me two more as replacements using FedEx this time instead of UPS. Both speakers have nice gash marks in the veneer.

But I cannot say how pleased I am with the Customer Service I have received from Crutchfield.
post #703 of 2259
It looks like Beta supplies will soon be drying up completely. I've been told by The A/V Source that their supply of Beta 50 are gone and they're down to a few pairs of 40 as of a week or two ago.
post #704 of 2259
I am building a new dedicated HT in a 17x13 room in the basement (one entry door to room, no windows, 9" ceilings) . I am considering doing Beta 50s for fronts and rears because the price difference between the 50s and the
20s is nominal, so I figure go large all the way around. Does anybodyd have a good reason that this would be a bad idea? Thanks
post #705 of 2259
Just make sure the rear beta 50's drivers are not obstructed. As in do not have them pointing into a couch. (This is one reason why rear satelite are normally mounted higher than a tower speaker is.)
post #706 of 2259
Thanks. I did end up buying the betas.
post #707 of 2259
To most accurately produce soundtracks in surround it is always best to emulate the way speakers are set up in a THX-approved movie theater. That is, left and right surround speakers are placed on the sidewalls, not the rear walls of the theater. And that the side- mounted left and right surround speakers fire Over, Not At the seated listeners. Rear surround speakers in a movie theater, those which produce the sixth channel encoded (in mono) on all DVDs, are mounted on the rear walls of the movie theater. The surround rear channels of a THX-approved theater also fire over not at the ears of the seated listeners.

Contrary to popular belief, virtually all primary vocal information in both two and three- way loudspeakers designed for the home comes out of the woofers, not the midrange or tweeter. It is the harmonics of the human voice (usually above 800Hz or so) which are usually produced by the midrange. In the Beta 40s and 50s I chose 850Hz as the crossover point between the woofer and midrange.

IMHO the only time all speakers, both LCRs and surrounds should all be placed at ear level is a) if you listen exclusively to surround vocals in music tracks (which have no video) or b) if you are the actual mix-down engineer on a sound stage and you need to hear the surround immersion effects your are trying to create for a movie.

In playback mode, the mode in which we as consumers of movies and music listen, the primary intent of the LCRs is and always has been Localization of the sounds. Whereas for surrounds, whether sides or rears the primary intent is and always has been Envelopment or Immersion.

To make the intent of that effect most believable the surround speakers are always placed above the level of the heads of seated listeners. The reason for this is that our ear-brain sense of direction is not so good to the sides and the rear if the sounds are not coming directly at our ears but instead slightly above (18” to 24” for most home theaters) our ears. This is when the immersion effect works best at tricking our brains into thinking that we are “surrounded-by-sound”.

Interestingly this “above the head placement” does Not mean that surrounds should be mounted in the ceiling. Ceiling-mounted speakers mess with the HRTF (head related transfer function) in our brain. Simply put, this means that, by their very placement, ceiling-mounted speakers allow both ears to hear, say an effect coming from the right speaker. This totally messes up the intended channel separation of the effect (since we can now hear the effect with both ears instead of just our right ear. Why? Because when surround speakers are positioned properly, 18” to 24” above the seated listener’s head, it is one’s own head which blocks the left ear from hearing the sound. This is why THX theaters are always set up with the side and rear surrounds firing Over the heads of the seated listeners in the theater audience.

Patrick Hart
post #708 of 2259
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronisb View Post

I am building a new dedicated HT in a 17x13 room in the basement (one entry door to room, no windows, 9" ceilings) . I am considering doing Beta 50s for fronts and rears because the price difference between the 50s and the
20s is nominal, so I figure go large all the way around. Does anybodyd have a good reason that this would be a bad idea? Thanks

To most accurately produce soundtracks in surround it is always best to emulate the way speakers are set up in a THX-approved movie theater. That is, left and right surround speakers are placed on the sidewalls, not the rear walls of the theater. And that the side-mounted left and right surround speakers fire Over, Not At the seated listeners. Rear surround speakers in a movie theater, those which produce the sixth channel encoded (in mono) on some DVDs, are mounted on the rear walls of the movie theater. The surround rear channels of a THX-approved theater also fire over not at the ears of the seated listeners.

Contrary to popular belief, virtually all primary vocal information in both two and three-way loudspeakers designed for the home comes out of the woofers, not the midrange or tweeter. It is the harmonics of the human voice (usually above 800Hz or so) which are usually produced by the midrange. In the Beta 40s and 50s I chose 850Hz as the crossover point between the woofer and midrange.

IMHO the only time all speakers, both LCRs and surrounds should all be placed at ear level is:

a) if you listen exclusively to surround vocals in music tracks (which have no video) or
b) if you are the actual mix-down engineer on a sound stage and you need to hear (directly) the surround immersion effects your are trying to create for a movie.

In playback mode, the mode in which we as consumers of movies and music listen, the primary intent of the LCRs is and always has been Localization of the sounds. Whereas for surrounds, whether sides or rears the primary intent is and always has been Envelopment (or Immersion).

To make the intent of an effect most believable surround speakers should always be placed above the level of the heads of seated listeners. The reason for this is that our ear-brain sense of direction is not so good to the sides and the rear if the sounds are not coming directly at our ears but instead slightly above (18” to 24” for most home theaters) our ears. This is when the immersion effect works best at tricking our brains into thinking that we are “surrounded-by-sound”.

Interestingly this “above the head placement” does Not mean that surrounds should be mounted in the ceiling. Ceiling-mounted speakers mess with the HRTF (head related transfer function) in our brain. Simply put, this means that, by their very placement, ceiling-mounted speakers allow both ears to hear, say an effect coming from the right speaker. This totally messes up the intended channel separation of the effect (since we can now hear the effect with both ears instead of just our right ear. Why? Because when surround speakers are positioned properly, 18” to 24” above the seated listener’s head, it is one’s own head which blocks the left ear from hearing the sound(the so-called HRTF). This is why THX theaters are always set up with the side and rear surrounds firing Over the heads of the seated listeners in the theater audience. And why such placement practice in the home can be such big dividends (by more accurately creating the sense of envelopment).

Patrick Hart
post #709 of 2259
I need some help with two(or one ) infinity subs.
I would like to know if there are really two different Infinity subs CSW10 and SW10?
The former is listed as 650W, 23.6kg and the SW10 is shown as 150W, 16.7kg.
I can't find SW10 on Infinity's website but I have seen it in a lot of places online. Could the SW10 be the Infinity Beta HCS's sub being sold separately?
post #710 of 2259
I did some more research and finally found out what the SW10 is. Infinity calls is the BETA SW-10 and it seems to be nothing like the CSW10.
The SW12 however seems to be exactly the same as the BETA SW-12.
The sad part is that I was hoping I could get the CSW10 (which seems to be better than CSW12/BETA SW-12) while I was actually looking at BETA SW-10 which seems to be the worst of the four models and by a big margin
post #711 of 2259
The CSW-10 (a $1K, small 10" sealed box design) and the SW-12 (an $800, larger 12" bass reflex design) are the two subs I originally developed for the Beta series. Both subs came with the RABOS single band EQ on board, a feature I consider mandatory for properly calibrating the Sub/Room interface. The $800 SW-12 however did not come with the proper RABOS calibration kit (for cost reasons) so to get the most out of RABOS a consumer would have to shell out another $60 and buy the RABOS calibration kit from the Harman/Infinity parts department. Dumb (IMHO).

If memory serves the SW-10 was originally designed as a $400 JBL product by another designer at Harman. That model is probably closer to 6 years old by now.

Shortly after I finished the Beta series and left Harman all subs were separated from their particular series and lumped together (Infinity and JBL) in their own subwoofer category. I believe the reason was to allow a greater range of performance and price points for a prospective consumer.
post #712 of 2259
Quote:


To make the intent of an effect most believable surround speakers should always be placed above the level of the heads of seated listeners. The reason for this is that our ear-brain sense of direction is not so good to the sides and the rear if the sounds are not coming directly at our ears but instead slightly above (18 to 24 for most home theaters) our ears. This is when the immersion effect works best at tricking our brains into thinking that we are surrounded-by-sound.

I have my side and rear surrounds above as mentioned. But I have them pointed slightly down toward the listener. You make me wonder if I should have them firing above the listener. How should they point?

And thanks for the informative post!
post #713 of 2259
Quote:
Originally Posted by dinotoad View Post

I have my side and rear surrounds above as mentioned. But I have them pointed slightly down toward the listener. You make me wonder if I should have them firing above the listener. How should they point?

And thanks for the informative post!

Point your surrounds parallel with the floor and towards the opposite sidewall.
post #714 of 2259
Quote:
Originally Posted by plhart View Post

The CSW-10 (a $1K, small 10" sealed box design) and the SW-12 (an $800, larger 12" bass reflex design) are the two subs I originally developed for the Beta series. Both subs came with the RABOS single band EQ on board, a feature I consider mandatory for properly calibrating the Sub/Room interface. The $800 SW-12 however did not come with the proper RABOS calibration kit ... Dumb (IMHO).

Patrick, you are amazing. I'm 'infinitely' grateful for your posts here, and the perspective you bring to the Beta line. I purchased the SW 12 last fall at its current 'close out' price. And you are right; it's dumb Infinity didn't include the RABOS kit, especially since they're no longer available on the Infinity website. I did find one on eBay, and won the bid on it. Using it showed I had a definite spike between 49 and 35Hz. Thankfully, Infinity still has on its website the utility to determine the correct bass management settings using all of my readings.

My only mistake was to not set them when I performed the Audyssey EQ routine. I'm going to correct that in the near future.

Overall, (for what it's worth), I'm very happy with the SW. It does everything I want it to do for music. For HT, the lower frequencies do drop off so I don't get to rattle everything in the house. Instead, I bought some transducers and put them under where I sit so I can rattle what really matters.
post #715 of 2259
Hey Patrick,

Thanks for all of your valuable info. I've read all your posts of the various threads here on AVS. My setup is 2 beta 50's, a 360, and 2 beta 10's with a subwoofer coming soon. My amp is a yamaha htr 6060. I have the 50's set to large & all other set to small. I used to own a primus setup before this.

My questions are:

1) why are the center channels not ported?

2) The 360 sounds excellent but, when I turn the volume up to very high levels music sounds better with the center channel off. It seems like either the midrange or treble becomes harsh with the the 360. When I set the center to large it seems as if this harshness in reduced.

3) Why were these speakers not front ported? The rears would easier to wall mount.
post #716 of 2259
Juiceblrc,

When you get your sub be sure to set the 50's to small (even though they're large :-))
post #717 of 2259
Quote:
Originally Posted by juiceblrc View Post

Hey Patrick,

Thanks for all of your valuable info. I've read all your posts of the various threads here on AVS. My setup is 2 beta 50's, a 360, and 2 beta 10's with a subwoofer coming soon. My amp is a yamaha htr 6060. I have the 50's set to large & all other set to small. I used to own a primus setup before this.

My questions are:

1) why are the center channels not ported?

2) The 360 sounds excellent but, when I turn the volume up to very high levels music sounds better with the center channel off. It seems like either the midrange or treble becomes harsh with the the 360. When I set the center to large it seems as if this harshness in reduced.

3) Why were these speakers not front ported? The rears would easier to wall mount.

The managers were already two months behind the Beta program's scheduled start date when I was brought into the program. Beta had been intended from the beginning to be have a fusion of European and American styling so the front panel shape, the cosmetics of the trim rings and all outside dimensions had been pre-determined (before I evn arrived) by an individual European stylist who had previously worked with B & W on some of their designs.

The rear porting location, if deemed necessary, was dictated by Infinity's Sales and Marketing guys out of New York. So I was stuck with some models which in a couple of cases had less than optimal dimensions (and inadequate or in some cases overly large internal volumes) and in all cases had front panels whose cosmetics could not be changed.

The C-360 center channel's predetermined internal volume allowed the two six inch drivers to hit a 3dB down point at 78 Hz so it did not require a port. The C-250's predetermined volume was such that it worked equally well whether sealed or ported. Had I had any say in the manner I would have gone for a bit more internal volume for the double 5.25"ers because, as it was the volume was too darned small and the -3dB down point was more like 90Hz (which to me was not acceptable).

Regarding the midrange or treble becoming harsh at very high volumes when the speaker is set to "small" within the receiver- I'll give you two theories.

a) When I designed the C-360 I employed mylar film caps and air core inductors for both the woofer-to-mid 12dB/octave crossover and the mid-to-tweeter 12dB/octave crossover. With such nice crossover components the C-360 could far surpass our target (same price point) competitor in sound quality. So my managers asked me to cheap out and downgrade the quality of the crossover components to save $$ and increase profits.

It is a known fact that lower-cost electrolytic caps will change the frequency at which they roll-off when high power is applied. Similarly, substitute an iron rod inductor for a more costly air core inductor and the iron rod inductor will quickly saturate and cause audible distortion under high power.

b) When set to "large" the C-360's woofers are allowed to run full range and thus play lower in frequency (as was the design intent). It is this "fuller sound" that will tend to psycho-acoustically mask the distortion taking place further up-frequency, at the crossover points.

Hope this helps...
post #718 of 2259
plhart,

I'll echo all the praise mentioned earlier and add my appreciation for your valuable comments to this and other forums. After reading through these posts, I placed an order tonight for 2 beta 50s, 2 beta ES250s, and 2 beta 20s (already had the C360). A couple of questions:

1) In your last post you mentioned some reasons for the 50s sounding harsh when set to small with no center channel. Not sure I fully understood the response, but I'm curious as to whether you would expect this to happen with the C360 turned on? If so, do you recommend setting the 50s to large?

2) I debated whether to use an ES250 (or maybe two of them) for the rear channels. I ended up buying the 20s purely for price. Would you have recommended something other than the 20s for the rears?

Thanks again for your input. As others have mentioned, it's quite invaluable.
post #719 of 2259
Hey ckhusker,

Patrick & I were discussing the 360 sounding harsh when set to small (not the 50's) only when listening to music. This is why when listening to music I listen to 4 channel stereo (I turn the center off). I will try 5 channel stereo some more tomorrow to compare with my center set to large.

For movies the 360 is unbelievable.

Hey jmps,

Yes I will set all 5 speakers to small when I get my sub.

Thanks for all the info Patrick.
post #720 of 2259
Has anyone heard of anything regarding the Beta's replacement? I am curious to know what Infinity is coming out with next. I'm kind of hoping they release a speaker that is a little higher up in the food chain. I would like to see what they do at a $2,000-$3,000 price point. I know they have the Cascade series, but I'm talking about a more conventional speaker.
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