PD Cineo 3+ 1080. Anyone seen this ?

Alan:

Someone I think MarK H from the forum has this

Alan:

Mark_H has one here is a link http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=769120

I thought Greg Rogers did a review of this and that it only had somethging like 300 lumens when you were at max contrast ?

Art

Art: I think Greg R did a review on the PD action 3 1080, the Cineo is a commercial piece with more lumens

Is there a link to it someplace ?

Art

Alan Gouger
www.cine4home.de has a fresh review of PD Action! model 3 1080. As I see it the Cineo is essentially the same unit with adaptions for e-cinema. It might use brighter bulbs and different color wheels for more brightness. The M3 1080 was measured at 1800 ANSI lumen at full blast with 1200:1 in contrast ratio. With iris positioned for best cr the lumens were lowered to a very low level. M3 1080 was shown at an event in Stockholm and the quality of the optics was very apparaent to everyone.

Yes,it would be interesting to compare a three chip DLP to a one chip that is as bright.

Art

Hey guys, sorry I am late to this discussion. What do you want to know about the Cineo 3+?

Mark

Art S
From 500W of lamp power you get 300 ANSI lumen with 4500:1 at D65 according to cine4home. It seems you wil need alot of energy to hit 1500 ANSI lumen and 6000:1 wich Ht5000 does with 300W. Cine4home comments on the level of artifacting with this professional 1DLP. The level is lower but is still there. If the dmd and control electronics were infinitely fast 1DLP would be the way to go. However this is in the real world.

Alan Gouger
I guess to see detail you need to have a slight change in hue , saturation or lightness between pixels. If the 1DLP does not have sufficient bit depth to show this the 3DLP will show more detail if it has very good convergence, as your unit has.

just my thoughts on the matter

The dmds are of equal speed.
Time spent rendering -> potential bit depth
1DLP has to divide time between the red, green and blue channel and also lose time , the so called spoke time between colors. I imagine the rapid cycling necessary to kill rainbows leads to some loss of rendering time. One advantage with 1DLP is the use of the dark green segment which improves dark rendering. I see that as a special case though. With true 10-12 bit digital cinema sources 3DLP must have an advantage. This is understanding at my hobbyist level. Perhaps some of our experts will chime in.

MarkH
Theory is good but tell us about the real performance of your exciting projector.

Mattias,

90% of the time I love the projector - the other 10% is with very dark films and of course the projector struggles just like most other digitals do and then I have some issues with it. I am also making things harder for myself by throwing a 15' image (via ISCO III) which means I cannot get as much contrast out of the projector compared to somebody using a smaller screen.

But here are my measurements - the projector is throwing from 26' back:

Brightness - new bulbs iris fully open - 19fL

I use a 7fL calibration in my cave as anything higher hurts your eyes when the image gets bright! At 7fL I measured a contrast ratio of 1800:1 and an ANSI ratio of 180:1. The colour gamut (measured with Colourfacts/GretagMcBeth Eye One) hits Rec. 709 for Red and Blue but was slightly undersaturated on Green. Another important issue for me is that the projector supports 48Hz output. The image is razor sharp - I can see alternating on/off pixel line test patterns from 20' back. Calibrated greyscale is flat within +/- 2dE from 10-100.

With the majority of software the image is simply stunning.

Negatives: Rainbows are visible from time to time. As the picture gets darker you start to see typical one-chip issues such a dithering and solarisation (this for me is the biggest issue).

I have zero regrets moving to digital and the image I now have surpasses my Barco 812 CRT in every way except on/off contrast.

Like most here, I want a lot more contrast from digital projectors and this is most obvious on dark films but there are more than enough great looking moments to keep me going until the next projector comes along.

I'm not sure what the data path through the cineo is but it is compatible with D-Cinema sources so if you have such a source the cineo should be able to display it. But internally it does no processing so you must partner it to a scaler or a source with native 1080p output in order to drive it.

Feel free to ask any more questions.

Mark

I'm sure looking forward to getting my dVision 1080p version of this machine. I think it's on a slow boat from Norway..........

WOW! Somebody else in this forum that agrees with me that once you get up there in foot lamberts, it can simply just be too damn bright in a light controlled room.

For me, 10 foot lamberts is perfect. This is what I've been watching for the last two years at Art's place (11FL) and its wonderful. Gonna drop it just a small tad.

Cliff

Hi

I did a review on the PD model III 1080 but it's not published yet so I can't tell everything.
My measurements are in line with the observations from mark.
I also lower the output from this projector just under 10ftl else it hurt your eyes.
But I never see a projector as sharp as the MIII unbelievable.
In a couple of weeks I get the one with updated colorweel with secondary colors.

Rob

As soon as your DPI rep ships it to Jason ( and then me ) I'll give you my full report!!

I'm not running a huge screen like Mark with mine - I'm more interested in the top notch optics and processing, the ability to adjust the iris at will, the extreme flexibility and being able to either have the picture very bright for parties with the lights on or dialed in to 12 fl ( or so ) for movies, for many many hours on those 2 bulbs. And being able to move to around 1.3 or 1.4 screen widths for a completely immersive experience!!

Looking forward to your report Craig. What happened to the Optoma?

Didn't we see that at the DPI booth in Cedia? The single chipper looked great but no contest with the Titan .

Peter, as I recall they had it on the shelf but not running. I could be wrong however. I pretty much spent time looking at the Titan.

Art

It was raght above it. Or top right. It was there for sure. To me th difference is the color gamut, 3 chip rules.

Regards

Peter, I believe color ,dithering,and blitzfarben all favor three chip. If the panels register very well as the one Alan has, except for cost, there seems little reason to consider one chip it sounds like.

Art

Right now the H79 is my temporary back up projector in the new theater while I wait for the electric screens and the dvision 1080p. I'm watching HDTV with it on a 92" wide Hi Power screen from about 1.35 screen widths and it looks better than ever. I could see blemishes in Jack Bauers nose on 24 I never saw before. Considering how good that looks, I imagine I'll see hairs on his nose with the dvision.........

Craig and Mark
Do you have or can you get the RGBCMY color wheel to your unit. A member of the swedish forum Component has just upgraded his PD M2 to a PD M20 by swapping a few boards and the color wheel. He is reporting that the new color wheel has made a big difference. PD are very unique in upgrading units.