Official Anthony Gallo Owners Thread - Page 82

Hi, dr.sah,
as I have a AG Ref 3.5 I can not comment from my experiences. Here I'm posting a link to the gentleman that reviewed, tested and combined Stradas with TR-3 sub and ended in 60Hz. Result is posted on page 2 of the review.

From my practice it pretty much depends also on the room acoustic and a personal taste. What is important to me when integrating sub with main speakers is that I try to melt it with the mains and I take good care not to overemphasize it.

best,
d.

I'm thinking to put speakers little lower, closer to subs. Maybe I can improve sound with that a little bit.

I bet you will improve it if you have them too high at the moment. There is one recipe -> put the tweeter in the height of your ears while sitting. Experiment what it is best for you.

best, d.

Does anyone here have an opinion on the Reference AV Vertical side speakers? how do they compare to say the Paradigm Monitor 9 series?

I've had my Reference 3.5's for about 3 weeks now and they are now fully broken in. I'm considering getting the SA amp, but wondering if it is worth the extra $. Anyone that have both have any advice?

I own 3.5's, and an SA amp. (I also owned 3.0's then upgraded to 3.1's.

Yes the SA amp will bring the 3.5's down to about 20hz-but use it with care.
With two much level, I find that the mid bass gets a bit muddled and sounds "slower".

I am a professional violinist who works in motion pictures and concerts-I have a good set of ears and am also
and addicted audiophile. I still find the 3.5's, even at there now inflated price a bargain-they disappear when listening
to well recorded sources.

My suggestion, break in the 3.5's for 150-200 hrs.-then carefully experiment with placement (some rooms just won't need any
low end support) then If, if you miss that bottom octave-go for it-buy an SA

Thanks. I think the 3.5's are an amazing speaker. At the new price, I agree with them still being a bargain as I went from a $17,000 pair of speakers and am now much happier with the 3.5's. My problem is my room as it is 10'-7" wide and 33' long, so acoustically, it is a challenge. I want to acoustically treat it with some panels, but haven't got around to it yet. But even with the room being as bad as it is, the speakers still shine.

Anyone using a third party power cord on their Gallo TR-3D subwoofer?

I have the chance to pick up a pair of Pioneer S-1EXs at a very good price that would replace my 3.1s. I am largely a HT listener and I have Reference AVs for all my other channels. Any thoughts on whether the Pioneers would be too much of a mismatch (tonally) with the Reference AVs and upset the HT listening balance I am currently enjoying?

I just read this review concerning the Strada/TR-3D combo and in it the reviewer states:

"I drove the TR-3 using the RCA inputs from the second output of my preamp. I did not use the high pass crossovers"

"In addition, a high pass output is there for use with satellites that need a high pass crossover. "

The folks at Anthony Gallo both in the USA and in England will tell you that using the RCA inputs from a preamp is not the best or optimal way to deploy the Strada/TR-3D in a 2.1 setup. The RCA inputs are best used from an HT receiver.

Here are two emails concerning this topic from the folks at Anthony Gallo in England and in the U.S.


In this email (Gallo England) I asked about setting up the TR-3D using interconnects from my pre amp.

If your amplifier has both Left and Right channel Pre-Out's then run both. Alternatively, if there is only one single Pre-Out the just run a single interconnect - however, in this method you can boost the bass by using a Y-Splittwer cable, thus splitting the single Pre-Out into both Left and Right inputs.

The main problem with this setup is when using a Stereo amplifier, you are sending a full range signal to the Strada's, and unless the Amplifier has bass control, you are also sending a full range signal to the subwoofer. The TR3's crossover network is only active on the High Level circuit. The Low level input is more designed for a Multi-Channel AV amplifier, where bass frequency control is taken care of by the AV Amplifier.

In a 2.1 setup, I would actually recommend a different approach to wiring up the Strada's and TR3 Subwoofer. This involves running speaker cables to the subwoofer and then from the subwoofer onto the Strada's. This will make best use of the crossover and give the best control over the setup. It ensures that any frequencies above the crossover level set on the TR3 are sent to the Strada's and anything below is played by the TR3.

- From your Stereo amplifier, run a set of speaker cables to the High Level Input of the subwoofer, taking care to connect the speaker cables to the correct terminals.
- The run a second set of speaker cables from the subwoofers High Level Output to the Strada's.
- On the subwoofer, set the Level to 50%, and crossover to around 70-90Hz.
- Phase should be at 0º if the sub is on the same plane as the Strada's, or 180º if it's behind the listening position.
- Once music is playing use your ears to accurately adjust the crossover and level controls to give the best sound.

********

Here is the email recommendation from Gallo U.S.A.

You can connect the TR-3d to your system 3 ways.

1. High Level (speaker wire) from your L & R main on your amp to the high level input on the sub. And connect the speakers to the L & R main of your amp.
2. High Level (speaker wire) from your L & R main on your amp to the high level input on the sub, then from the high level output to the speakers.
3. Line level - From your pre-amp to the line in L&R on the sub.

Option 1 and 2 are the best. Not sure you are going to hear the difference between them, but here is a section from the TR-3d manual that goes over this subject. Please review and contact me with any further questions. FYI - we are currently out of TR-3d's, we have a shipment of that will arrive near the end of the month.

High-Level Input From L/R Main Speaker Terminals of Receiver or Amplifier: When your TR1/3 Subwoofer is connected with the High Level (speaker) connections, you have the option of running the main speakers "full range" or rolling off the deep bass by using the high-pass (approximately 100Hz) filter built into these connections on the subwoofer. To hook up your TR1/3 subwoofer via the speaker-level connections simply connect a high quality speaker cable from the amplifier's Right Channel Outputs to the Right Channel High-Level Input Terminals on the subwoofer, repeating this process for the Left Channel. Be absolutely sure when making these connections that Positive goes to Positive (Red/+) and negative goes to Negative (Black/-).

The speakers can now be connected in one of two ways. If you wish to utilize the high-pass filter built into the subwoofer and remove the deep bass from the speakers, simply connect your speakers to the High-Level Out Terminals on the subwoofer as shown.(Figure#1). This connection method will provide a smoothly contoured roll-off of the low frequencies going to the speakers, starting at about 100Hz.

If you wish to run your main speakers full range with no low frequency roll-off, hook them directly to the main speaker output terminals or your receiver or amplifier as in any normal audio system. This is recommended ONLY if your speakers are truly full-range, with significant bass response below 50HZ. If not, you may find that you are overdriving the speakers. You will be able to play your system louder without overdriving the speakers by using the subwoofer's built-in high-level crossover.

All these speaker level connections should be made using quality speaker wire and carefully observing polarity ensuring Positive goes to Positive (Red/+) and Negative goes to Negative (Black/-). It is essential that all speaker level connections be in PHASE meaning: "+" to "+" and "-" to "-". This ensures absolute phase throughout your system. If you experience a great lack of bass, it is likely that one speaker is out of phase (+ and - reversed) with the other, either at the amplifier speaker terminals, at the subwoofer High Level Terminals or on the main speakers themselves.



I have run the Stradas/TR-3D combo both from interconnects and using speaker cables from my amp to the Hi Level inputs then speaker cables from Hi Level out to the Stradas and have found the using the speaker cable method to be superior. Deploying the Stradas in this way removes the stress of a full range load and the presentation improves in many ways. The sound becomes even more spacious and the top end is effortless. I have not experienced any loss in sonics by using the crossover in the TR-3D in any of the tracks I listen to either commercial tracks or of my own compositions which I also mix.
Edited by Xchair - 9/13/12 at 12:37pm

I'm not familiar with the sound of the Pioneer S-1EX speakers, but I imagine that the surrounds will be fine. I think for the center though, you'd want to get a speaker designed to mate with the S-1EXs.

Thx Barry - that is what I was thinking as well and I am not sure I want to spend the money on the equivalent EX centre or can fit it in physically.

No but I did with two TR-1's. Made a lot of difference, all for the better.

I have a Hi-Fi super spur; consisting of a 50mm² pair of conductors for live and neutral (probably bigger than needed really but the wire was long enough off cuts and was reduced in price at the wholesaler, and with my big TL speakers yielded substantially more resultant bass than the 12mm² it replaced) and a 10mm² earth that goes direct to the service head earth.

I had normal 10 amp IEC leads plugged into the TR-1's and into a trailing block from the spur. Changed them for 10mm² Twin & Earth leads that I made myself. Better bass; reduced the sloppy muddle (but not enough), better integration with the Stradas (but not good enough). Doesn't mean that will happen with the latest version TR-3, or on different mains supply.
Edited by Ian AS - 9/14/12 at 5:09am

Your other option is a phantom center. I've been running that way for years with various Gallo speakers with no complaints.

If I recall correctly the high pass filter in the TR-1 is an electrolytic cap in series with the Strada. My experience, and that of many others, is electrolytic caps do damage to the sound quality at bass, mid and treble. With my Stradas I could easily hear the difference between speaker cable of 2 metres and ½ metre. Same cable. Shorter was quite bit better. Many people I know also know this from their own comparing. The Stradas revealed it quite well, even though they don't do much bass. Missing out the amplifiers brass terminal posts and soldering the wires to the capacitors earth star and to the MOSFETs output coil also made an improvement. The brass sounds, err, brassy, a glare and muddle, nasty.

So, filtering the bass off the Stradas is a good move, I wonder if that's just for loud play? Or if it helps them blend with the sub? I felt the problem might be partly that the sub is making sound up to about 1kHz and that needs getting rid off as it slow and messy compared to the fast clean sound from the cross-over less carbon mid units in the Stradas. Or that the TR-1s are just too 'lose' and what bass the Stradas do do is super tight and clean. They sounded better on their own. Then I fitted the big mains supply leads to the TR-1's and that helped.

Maybe one improvement might be to take the leads not to the TR-3D high power inlet, but to your own film caps of the same value with high quality film cap by-pass, then to the Stradas, that's got to be better than an electrolytic? Or does the TR3-D now have film caps?
Edited by Ian AS - 9/14/12 at 5:15am

I actually have AG Reference 3.5 and using REL Britannia B2 subwoofer (roll off set at about 28Hz). As I have also a couple of good quality DIY power cables at home I dared to do an experiment with it and put one on the sub. I was positively surprised what power cables bring to the reproduction of bass. I made my power cords from Tempoelectric power cord (available only directly) and different kind of Oyaide connectors. The most I like Oyaide 079 connectors (gold). So on my opinion it is definitely worth to experiment to at least borrow one better power cable and hear for yourself.

best, d.
Edited by delfincek - 9/14/12 at 4:22am

I've been using Shunyata Venom 3 power cords throughout my rig to great benefit. Nice thing about them is that the Venom 3's are relatively cheap. Haven't scooped one up yet for the TR-3D yet.

Hi guys,

I'm looking around for some speakers, and am considering some Anthony Gallo's.

I have 2 Rhythmik Audio FP15HP subs that I'd be running, so low-end isn't a problem for me.

I took a look at magnepan 3.7s, and they are very good, but I have a few issues with them--I listen to a lot of rock and metal, and the maggies start to get grumpy when I turn it up. I can't get much more than 88 or so DB at my listening position consistently--on some songs its ok, but on others they start to sound strained. Usually when heavy upper mid-bass was playing.

I had them crossed at 80hz.


Anyway, my question for you guys is, assuming my wife would be ok with the reference design look (she probably won't, but maybe she'll be amenable since she hates having walls in the middle of the room (the magnepans)), am I going to be getting much more out of it than I would out of a CL-4, given that my subs have no problem producing clean, accurate bass in the low & mid range?

Now, if I start to pump the volume, I wouldn't want the speakers to fall apart... I want that detail and clarity that I got from the maggies, but I want volume to go along with it. I'm willing to give up a bit of detail if I can play them a bit loud without worrying about damage. (Say, if I wanted to listen at 95 db average at my listening position for a short time, possibly even a bit louder.)

Well, I've heard the Reference 3.5s driven by a pair of Digital Amplifier Company - Cherry Ultra Monos ( http://www.digitalamp.com/cherryMonoUltra.html ), to levels where I couldn't hear my self speak with no break-up what so ever. Now I don't know how many dB that was at the listening spot, but literally, I could not hear myself speaking. We were listening to Tool 10,000 Days by the way. It sounded awesome!

I do sometimes listen at volumes where I cannot hear myself speak.

The maggies did not like 10,000 days. The intro to Jambi would cause crackling if I had it up past 89 or so DB at the listening position (~10ft away).
Of course, that was being driven off a 4311CI, but I spoke with the dealer, and he said he doesn't think I could get more volume out of them regardless of how much power I pushed in--they just don't have the excursion capability.

My wife just took a look at the reference picture and said it looked fine to her (after finding it isn't very large).

So my question is: given that I have subs picking up a substantial portion of the low-end burden, what, if anything, would I be gaining by going with the 3.5's over the CL4?

I read of a guy running 3.5s off a 4311 a few pages back... but I'd probably want to get an external amp. I don't know that I really have the budget for a solid amp for them though... (I could afford 2 of the SAs each running mono... why are they so much cheaper than similarly powered amps? I assume there is some catch, unless its just brand thing... e.g., those mono amps listed in the post above mine are 4x the cost, but similar power to the bridged SA amp...)

Yes, I do. Very, very few "full range" speakers playing without the assistance of a high quality dedicated, powered subwoofer can reproduce the bottom octave of music (16-32 Hz) at high SPLs and low THD. I'm almost certain the same is true with the 3.5s being driven by the sub amp. It's still only a couple of 10 in woofers in relatively small enclosures, being driven by a relatively small amount of peak power.

Most high quality powered SWs have PAs that can produce peak power over 1 kW and drivers with large motors and maximum excursion.

Spend $1-1.5k on a high quality powered SW and you'll never think of the Gallo sub amp again. I run my 3.5s with an 8 year old Paradigm Servo 15a crossed over at 40 Hz and can make the floor vibrate with pipe organ music.

That was me. You have to remember I'm running the 3.5s with a very good sub, so the 4311 doesn't have to drive anything below 40 Hz. I really don't think a separate PA would add a noticeable difference but I could be wrong. If I were looking for a bargain full range external PA for them I'd go with an Emotiva XPA-2 or a pair of XPA-1s. $799 for the XPA-2 or just under $2k for the pair of XPA-1s.

Pretty sure the Gallo sub amps are derivatives of Dayton sub amps, which are very inexpensive pro-audio type amps. See this link..

I have 2 great subs, so I'm all set there.

I guess I'm just not clear on what the difference would be between, say, a pair of SA amps, a pair of XPA-1s, and a byston 4bSST, aside from the fact that the byston would put out less power and be twice as expensive. But I guess that would be a discussion for another forum.

Due to my room, I can only put my mains about 6 feet apart, if that. I sit about 8-10.5 feet from the mains, depending on where they end up during placement.

Further, the right speaker will end up near a sidewall (a little over 2 feet away), while the left speaker is nowhere near a sidewall (16 feet or so away).

Given the above, am I going to run into imaging problems with the 3.5s that might be more easily solved with a different speaker?

Hello there Morik,

I guess I can put some experiences and tips for you. You are asking about what is the difference between two subs and AG SA amp. I tried AG SA ampd with AG Reference 3.5 two times and I was not completely satisfied with the result I got out. I experienced a small degradation in sound, but not on the bass field as it was really good. I experienced a degradation in sound on the mids and highs. Musical picture was not that dead quiet as before. I'm guessing that my AG SA amp brought some of the interference to the speaker crossover which I noted with a very careful listening. On first ball everything was OK and I was almost decided to take it. Then I unplugged AG SA amp and imidiately suspected that mids and highs were just better without it plugged in. I tried it again and yes, I've noted that. Difference is very subtle but still big enough that I did not go for it. For example I did not noticed degradation with rock or electronic music. I noted difference with vocals and more peaceful music where fluidity just gone a little bit, highs and mids become just for a tint a little bit more harsh. I tried Hi and Lo pass and at both it was the same thing. You can read about my experiences also in this thread as we already had some small discussion.

1st trial (post 2138)
2nd trial (post 2254)

In the beginning of this year I purchased brand new REL Britannia B2 subwoofer and I’m very satisfied with the combination. Sub blends perfectly together with my Gallo’s and I just love this deep bass that REL provides. It is even better that through AG SA amp. I put a sub in right corner of the room just behind my right AG 3.5 speaker. Currently I have a crossover set at 28Hz and it is connected via speak-on cable via High Level input for music reproduction. I love it and my wish is that I I would love to have a second one just behind my left speaker . But unfortunately this sub is out of production now and very hard to get second hand. I like it a lot as really gives that important fundament and foot tapping tempo to the music and all other spectrum of the music becomes just more pronounced, stage deeper and wider and mids with more meat on the bones what I like the most.

About placing of the Anthony Gallo Reference 3.5 speakers I experienced quite a lot in my living room. I had it moving all over, closer and more out in the room, nearfiled, more at the back and now I have it like you are worried about. Left speaker is far away from the left side wall and right speaker is just near the right one. On first hand sure everybody would say that is not ideal. But still that was for me the best spot as it give best musical presentation. I did not find a side wall a problem and I do not use anything for damping the reflections as I just don’t hear any problem with sound distortion. My AG Reference 3.5 are not sensitive for that configuration in my room I guess.



I just found out that they love to be 3,0m apart and app. 2,8m away from my listening position. They are tilted just a little bit so they are fireing behind my head and not directly into me. I also discovered that position is only crucial in the vertical dimension. For example if I just stand up from my sweet spot there sure is to be lost a lot in musical dimensionality. But if I sit and move myself horizontally there is really a very wide sweet spot that other speakers does not come close at all.

best, d.
Edited by delfincek - 9/15/12 at 5:38am

Thanks Delfincek.

Due to the forced horizontal location of my seating area, I can't get the speakers more than 6 feet apart. Maybe a bit more if I put one a foot from the sidewall.

What did you find happened at closer positions? Was imaging affected? Did they have a harder time disappearing into the background?

Hiya,
just today i tried once again to move them a little bit around and I found position as mentioned above as best. I moved them forward so that I was app. only 2,1m away from the speakers and speakers were also 2,1m apart those making equilateral triangle with my position where I listen. I found that this position is a little bit to close as musical presentation is not as big as I get when speakers are 3m apart. And also while that close I have the feeling that I'm receiving music just straight into my face. Music is more energetic but I think it is a bit too much and voices of singers are a little bit too thin. Also dimensionality and stage is not as deep as if I put them more apart. I move them just 70cm further back and 90 more apart and I think that like that music become more live and realistic. Voices become more meaty and natural.
In my case my right speaker (tweeter) is only 33cm away from the right side wall and it does not have any side effect that I can notice. It does not distort my overall presentation of the music. Bass units are oriented inwards of course here.

Best, d.

I'm still a little confused over your question but if I read it correctly, I would really try the 3.5s with the 4311 given you're running two good subs. Unless you want to listen at earsplitting levels I think you'll be satisfied.

As far as the comparison of the amplifiers is concerned, the Gallo sub amp again is based on a pro audio product, which means it has a thermostat controlled fan and probably has a lower S/N ration than typical consumer PAs...as the SNR is not important in pro audio applications.

Other amplifiers like most other components usually follow a law of diminishing returns WRT cost. One area where you will typically see a significant difference is in their ability to drive a low impedance load.

On your question about imaging with your speakers so close together, I imagine that is going to affect most speakers similarly.

Ok one more question: Searching through this thread, I see various people bought 3.1s on Audiogon/Ebay. I see there are some good deals on 3.5s there now. I assume that such a purchase would have no warranty from Gallo at all?

I'm guessing its certainly a better deal (money saved is worth much more than a 5 year warranty), though not being able to return if I really didn't like them for some reason, and worrying about whether I'd actually receive the described product (though I'm guessing the risk of that is relatively low with a well rated ebay seller), make it not such a clear cut decision... anyone have any thoughts?

I need feedback from Onkyo 818 AVR owners. I have a set of AG Stradas (L/R/C) combined with AG TR-3 sub. I currently connect them to Onkyo 608 AVR. This combo's performance is acceptable but not great.

Do you think Onkyo 818 AVR would be a better match? Or, alternatively, what other AVR would you recommend to go with the Stradas?

Well my Reference 3.5 speakers are about 6' apart, maybe 7' if measured from the center of the speakers, and I sit about 9' from them. The sound-stage that they develop, with the right recordings, is far wider than the speakers and the depth layering is fantastic, with sounds seeming to come from behind my head, to far deeper than the wall behind the speakers.


It is my understanding that there are factory incentives for the dealers now, so you may want to contact your local authorized dealer to see what type of a deal you can get on a set from them. The price difference may be worth it for the peace of mind. With that said, I can't imagine that any Gallo Reference speaker you buy is a bootleg or copy, likely just some speakers that were obtained via an unauthorized distribution channel.
Edited by barryecohen - 9/21/12 at 4:18pm