Official Anthony Gallo Owners Thread - Page 87

I agree, 6 moons is one of the bigger offenders IMO. 100% subjective review, 0% measurements or double blind listening results. If they really wanted infallible results they would spend a fraction of the time he spent listening to them and have a panel fo 3-5 trained listeners do a DBT among the Strada 2, Strada and 3.5s. Then I would believe they say wiothout measurements.

Also, is it just me or does it seem that increasing the xover to 6 kHz would cause the mid drivers to be very beamy at the high end of that range, resulting in a bad mismatch between the horizontal polar patterns of the mid drivers and the tweeter?

It's not just you. Sounds like the newer Gallos may be returning to the sound of the ur-Nucleus, which crossed over the piezo driver too high and had obvious midrange colorations because of the pattern discontinuity. Perhaps some people prefer that sound.

It's also funny that they're trying to sell an obvious cost-cutting move (from a neo magnet to a ferrite one) as a sonic improvement.

Holy cow, I missed that.

As I've said before I really like my 3.5s & strada CC for the money...but some of the techno gobbledygook that AG puts out is just a bit much.

Name one company that doesn't put out "techno gobbledygook" - specially when releasing a new speaker (or re-designing an old one)

KEF and Revel, as two examples off the top of my head, have had designers who are published in professional journals (AES) rather than having a "go to" audiophile clique publication that publishes claims that are not backed up with measurements. Compare what AG has said in these 6moons reviews, for instance, to what Don Keele has published on his (actually borrowed from the USN) constant beamwidth transducer designs....night and day.

Can you not admit that it's a bit dramatic when a company that comes up with a silly name like optimized pulse technology to describe a group of mechanical changes made to the drivers that are claimed to make it more time coherent? How simple would it have been for him to publish impulse responses of the pre and post "OPT" changes to prove his point? Yet what we get is this rambling discussion of nonsinusoidal signals and "chaotic signals" that aren't used to optimize loudspeakers which is what causes them to sound less than realistic?

Look, anyone who has studied linear systems analysis can tell you that any signal, periodic or not, can be represented as some form of a series or integral of sine waves. The principle of superposition then allows you to conclude that analysis and testing with sinusoidal signals will represent real world musical signals. Parameters like rise time are strictly a function of the bandwidth of the system, or the highest frequency the system (e.g., tweeter) can faithfully reproduce.

Beam me up, Scottie!

What I found interesting in re-reading his description of OPT in the 6moons review of the 3.5 from 2009 is his describing changes he made to get the "propagation patterns" (bka dircetivity) between the tweeter and mids to line up better when this latest set of changes, specifically jacking the xover up to 6 kHz has to cause the mids to become very directional at the upper end of that range. What happens when you mate that with a tweeter that inherently has a broad pattern?

Russ, what I was trying to get at is that it really doesn't matter if they put out "techno gobbledygook" or not. What matters is the final result. The techno talk does help sell speakers to the masses. So do the reviews...whether by legit publications who perform scientific tests or not. Personally, I think all the scientific tests are B.S. There are lots of specs to measure all aspects of electronics, but none of them can tell us about sound quality. And both the techno jargon and the scientific tests can deter subjective judgement when listening due to psychology! How about blind tests? Which magazine or publication performs those??? And even if they did, two listeners can have have two different results as far as which sounds better.

Techno gobblygoo is all over the place in the high-end audio world...not just speakers, but all types of electronics (and yes, even more so on cables!). I haven't researched KEF or Revel's marketing or reviews. After being in this field for decades, I just don't trust anything but my own ears.

And by the way, I couldn't hear anything different in my 3.5's with or without the OPT cable. But I still love the 3.5's (and the Strada as center and surround). I haven't listened to the Strada II yet, but I'll throw my opinion out there when I do.

Gallo is more fond of nonsense propaganda than most.

Had some good reading today at lunch. Came across this today while trying to cypher through some interconect Bu** Sh**. Some of you that have been doing this for a long time may have already seen this article from Arthur Salvatore.

The Audio Press

http://www.high-endaudio.com/magaz.html#Cab


I have only been in the HIFI hobby for a year now , and reading this made me rethink every review I have ever read. I also now understand why some publications will not review certain manufacturers. It opened my eyes to how the process works and how the big boys keep the litle guys down. Makes you wonder how long some of these big companies can keep it going before the likes of Oppo and Emotiva and other internet high value based companies push them out.

Does anyone have any ideas for a cheaper alternative to the Gallo SA to run the second voice coil on the Ref 3.1? It seems that a 2 channel subwoofer amplifier is hard to come by.

You don't need a 'subwoofer' amplifier. Any 2-channel amp with sufficient power, damping factor and ohm ratings will suffice. The Crown XLS2500 works just fine for subwoofers (although I would consider the 3.5's to have bass modules, not subwoofers). 445wpc@8ohms, 775wpc@4ohms.


Max

I'm using this tweak (originally For the 3.1) in my Ref 3.5 and works very well:

http://www.10audio.com/gallo_ref3-1.htm

I'm very skeptical of this resistor tweak, as I am of using a 10 lb, 2000 wpc pro amp like a crown.

Considering something more along the lines of the Dayton sa1000.

Hiya,
Alternative to try can be XTZ Sub Amp 1 DSP that is practically half of the price of AG SA amp with good features to fine tune it.


more info...

There is also a cheaper alternative with XTZ Sub Amp 1


more info...

Anyway AG SA amp did brought some benefits in the bass segment but as I said many time it also brought some minor interference in mids and highs so I did not go for it. Now I have a solution with additional REL Britannia B2 subwoofers and my lowest octaves are sublime and there is no degradation of sound in mids and highs.

I tried also this resistor tweak with my AG 3.5 Reference and at first I thought that it brought some micro extension in the bass but after few months I unplugged it and I discovered that there is practically no difference.

best, d.
Edited by delfincek - 12/27/12 at 12:10am

One clarification on your point that essentially any amp will work - the Gallo SA has crossover adjustments, but this is not necessary if you use the LFE, correct? That is, LFE out to any amp will result in only frequencies under the processor's crossover (likely 80 hz) going to the second voice coil?

Yes. In addition, the XLS2500 that I recommended has even more flexibility. It actually has user configurable crossovers or high or low pass filters, adjustable in increments of 3-4 Hz from 50Hz up (so you could set a low pass filter for 79Hz, 83Hz, 88Hz etc. all the way up to 3kHz for folks using/needing active crossovers).

Even if you don't have an avr with bass management, you could just send a full range signal to the amp and set the amp's LPF. Of course, if you DO have an avr with bass management, you can just bypass the amp's filters. And all this for about $500 street price.


Max

I am using a wyred4sound MC5 500 wpc with ref 3.5's for mainly home theater. I have only connected the speaker to the amp via the "speaker" binding posts. Would this suffice to drive the second voice coil? I am trying to decide SA amp vs a separate subwoofer (Hsu VTF-15H).

Audyssey says 150Hz,(!) but I think they sound better at 120.

Assuming you get 4 x 3.5 and 1 x Strada...

Denon 4520 AVR ~ $2500
5 x Emotiva XPA-1 ~ $5000
5 x HSU ULS-15 ~ $5000
Oppo BDP-105 ~ $1200
Apple Mac Mini ~ $600
JRiver Media Center ~ $50
NAS ~$1500
Apple iPad (remote control host) ~$500
Roomie Remote SW ~ ?
System cabling ~ $500
Rack ~ $1000

Hiya,
25 or 30k USD is a lot of money and you can make wonders with that. Here are some of my dream come true components which I would closely consider if I would have means for that.

If music matter the most then I would first look into some good quality stereo amps and combine them later with a good quality A/V receiver.

STEREO AMPS:
Integrated: Modwright KWI 200 + DAC or even better Pre-Power combo: Modwright LS100 + Modwright KWA 150SE

Both amps KWI 200 and pre LS100 have HT bypass so you can use them also totally independently of A/V receiver. With this you will achieve the best result for listening of stereo sources.

AV RECEIVER:
Something from Lexicon as second hand or maybe Marantz SR7007 or A/V receiver Russ already recommended.

SUB:
2x JL Audio F112 or 2x REL G1(but these are import so they can be very expensive in USA so in my opinion JL Audio is more affordable at your place). Forget about AG SA amp if you will have any of these .

CD PLAYER:
something on tubes from Ayon, eg. Ayon CD-2

CABLES:
I have good results with Anthony Gallo OPT Reference cables but I had even better results with Cardas Golden Cross which i had briefly in my system but they cost. It also depends on the components selected where to go. Anthony Gallo cables are on my opinion very neutral cables so they will give you what you will feed them.

HTPC:
self built HTPC system on Windows platform.

WIRELESS CONTROL:
Asus Nexus 7 as a remote control for flac and MP3 listening.

best,
d.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Instead of 4 X 3.5s, I was thinking of getting 2 X 3.5s and either 2X Reference Stradas or 2 X Reference AV Vertical Side Speakers (this is cheaper and I think 4 X 3.5s is overkill for a room of 700 sq ft). Plus I would get 1 X Subwoofer and 1X Strade Center.

So my questions are:

-Do I need to get 2 X subwoofers, or will 1 X subwoofer be sufficient?

-Do I need to run each of these speakers through their own monoblock amp, or can I run just the 2 X 3.5s through 2 monoblocks and the rest of the speakers, including the subwoofers, through an additional amp?

-Also, I noticed that the 3.5s were designed based on using Spectron Musician III monoblock amps. What do you think about these?

Many Thanks,

J

You can always start with 1 subwoofer and see if you are satisfied with that. I have currently one REL B2 subwoofer that I use for music listening and also HT. It suffices and I achieved a perfect blending with the AG Ref. 3.5s.
REL is a great subwoofer specially for music where it really shines, it has high level and low level inputs that I need. I use high level connection for listening to the music and it is attached directly to my solid state amplifier on the speaker binding posts. I use low level connection only for HT (movie watching) and it is connected to my A/V receiver (sub pre-out). Just recently my taste become a little bit more demanding and I decided that I will go for a second REL B2 subwoofer. I want to achieve even better musical presentation so that L and R channels will have their totally independent subs.
About JL Audio. They are highly regarded subs with great performance but what I miss on them is high level input so that you can use them in a way I use my system.

How you can connect your system:
- You can buy a good Preamp that has HT bypass.
- Preamp can be connected to one stereo amplifier or 2 monoblock amps. This is up to you how you will decide. With two monoblocks you will achieve better result and better control of the speakers. With this combo you will drive front L and R speakers.
- you can hook up also subwoofer in this equation. From speaker binding posts on the amp to the high level inputs on the sub.
- you can buy A/V receiver and you can hook up here directly a center speaker, back L and R speaker and also subwoofer. You will hook up the same subwoofer via sub preout on A/V receiver to low level input on the subwoofer (subwoofer needs to have High Level and Low Level inputs though). A/V receiver will be connected also with your Preamp. You will use L and R pre out on your A/V receiver and you will connect it to your Preamp via HT bypass inputs. That way you can utilize to use your system for music and also for movies and you do not need to change speaker cables or to have two systems.

When you will watch movies you will have all your components on Preamp, amps, AV receiver, subs and HTPC.
When you will listen to the music via CD player your A/V receiver can be switched off. You will have on only Preamp, amps, subs and CD player.
This is exactly the way I use my system.
REL sub offers me to have it connected like this as it allows configuration for volume and crossover separately for Hi and for Lo Level inputs.

About Spectron amps. It is my dream come true to try them once or at least hear them. They are highly appreciated digital amps among the audiophiles. I trust Anthony Gallo that he best knows why he use them.

best, d
Edited by delfincek - 1/4/13 at 1:53am

My suggestions were based on your saying your budget is 25-30k. At that level of budget, you start doing "nice to have" things like using monoblocks. The XPA-1s happen to be an extraordinary value IMO.

Also WRT your budget, I think there are few things you could do to improve the sound more than have multiple subs, which your budget would support. With quad subs, room modes in bass are averaged out, the more subs, the more averaging, the flatter the response, and the higher the headroom (since each sub does less work). You can also increase the crossover frequency of the subs up to their upper limit (~200 Hz usually) since iwth 4 subs distributed throughout the room playing the same signal, you will not be able to localize the higher freqs that would normally be easily localized with one sub.

Also, if your budget is 25-30k, I don't understand why you would be skimping on surround speakers by not getting 3.5s for them also. How else are you going to spend your 25-30k?

Will the new 6 awg Anthony gallo opt speaker wire work with the gallos 3.1

Hiya there,
it is sure possible to use Anthony Gallo OPT speaker wires with Anthony Gallo 3.1 speakers even though they do not have OPT input on the speakers. OPT speaker wire (gray on the pic) is connected together with red speaker wire.

Important!
Just be sure that you connect Anthony Gallo cable's OPT banana plug into the speaker binding post where RED spade connector is connected. Normally this is on the positive (+) speaker binding post. Please see the pic for more details. You can use Anthony Gallo OPT speaker cables also with other speakers.



best, d
Edited by delfincek - 1/8/13 at 12:27am

Thanks for the info. Do you know if they make a larger version beside 3 meters. What is the current price for the cables?

Hiya there,

I read that they come only in onle legth and that is 3m. For price it is best to ask the Roundsound directly but I saw that these cables are not listed there. I also know that cables were designed and made by Chris Sommovigo and his company Xhadow,

best,
d.
Edited by delfincek - 1/10/13 at 10:49am

AG TR-3 (the original, not TR-3D) subwoofer and Strada speaker users. How would you rate the performance of your TR-3 Sub for music and HT?

Any recommendations for better musical subs?

I realise there is a separate AVS SubW forum but I'm more interested in TR3 + Strada experience rather than different speakers.

Thanks

I listen to more Psychedelic Chill-out, Jazz/ Acoustic, Electro and Dub-step than Trance, but Trance on a multi-channel Gallo setup lives up to its name, with startling dynamics and a boundless, reverberant, holographic surround sound stage. Gallo speakers, barring the Reference 5LS, just don't go stupid loud, (above Dolby Reference Level) so the more channels you have, the more relaxed they will sound, so long as you're not a strict stereophile for music. You might be able to squeeze 11.2 channels into that budget and space; I'd go for at least 9.2, (7.2+ height) so a flagship 11.2 channel pre-amp with Audyssey XT32 like the Marantz AV8801 is in order. Audyssey can fill the upper midrange dip on these, at the expense of some ultimate headroom. The Strada 2 are reportedly now 3dB more sensitive, a welcome asset in a larger listening environment. If you want height speakers, consider vertically oriented Strada Centers for better vertical dispersion, unless your listening area will be very wide. A boomy sub with tuneless, overly rounded mid-bass will immediately call the wrong kind of attention to itself with Gallo speakers, so I like the Strada paired with Rythmik DirectServo Subs which are very clean, quick and smart; you can "see" into the bass like you can on the Reference 3.5. They never sound thick, they make it seem as if my mains have suddenly developed well extended bass, more like great headphone bass than a sub, they have musical midbass (important for Gallo speaker integration) and are -2dB @ 14Hz. One Rythmik F15HP can attain Dolby Reference Level, but you'll probably need at least two to really control that listening room and reserve the option to cross the Stradas high, (120Hz+) bypassing the sub's crossover, as these speakers don't have very much output below 100Hz. If you want a slightly thicker sounding sub, check out the ported Rythmik FV15HP or sealed Seaton Submersive. Two Submersives will absolutely threaten your foundation, yet still deliver tight, percussive, tactile bass.
Stradas are rated at 150W, likely so as not to offend potential customers with AV receivers, but they have been known to send a 145W per channel THX Ultra2 rated AV receiver into protect mode at anything over 100dB so get at least 250W for the surround/ wide/ height and 500W for the mains, the front three, the main five or even all channels. You could get two pairs of Reference 3.5 for L,R,RS,LS and couple those with 1KW monoblocks or a 500Wx4 multi-channel amp, powering the remaining Strada channels with a 500 or 250Wx7. Anthony Gallo prefers Spectron Class D amps for their pristine, powerful sound, but a Spectron multi-channel amp would blow half your budget. Class D works well with Gallo speakers, so I'd go with D-Sonic M2 amps, which are available in up to 7 channels, communicate dynamic, naturally open sonics, and represent a great bargain.
This stuff is going to pull like 80 Amps, so some electrical upgrades might be wise. You might also want at least one of these.
Edited by tronic307 - 1/9/13 at 11:05am

This is an interesting thought. This would give you 120 degrees of vertical dispersion and 30 degrees of horizontal dispersion. I agree it may work well for narrower rooms otherwise the 30 deg horizontal may be too narrow for seating at the edges. I wonder, though, if using a regular Strada aimed down at the listening position would be more effective.

I have a 13'x19'x8' room and am debating what kind of surround setup to go with. My rear seating is 2 feet from the back wall so am not convinced that I want to place rears there. I was thinking to do heights instead since my room is too narrow to support widths. I am also thinking to mount the heights directly on the ceiling.

Anyone have any experience with whether the Strada wall mounts offer enough flexibility to aim the speaker towards the listening position if ceiling mounted?