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Lansing, MI - HDTV - Page 43

post #1261 of 2706
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jefbal99 View Post

Lazy rat bastards at WLAJ/WWMT...

Open coverage started out in WS SD, then randomly went to 4x3 when I was making coffee. Had to call and get the WS feed turned back on.

Same thing this morning, cept they are saying that the ABC feed is having an issue after they dropped into SD for a DTV switch website graphic
post #1262 of 2706
WKAR-TV and DT are scheduled to be off the air Friday August 1st from about 10A to 2P for antenna re-tuning to accommodate channel 40.

Programming will continue on Comcast in the metro area.
post #1263 of 2706
Looking for some suggestions for my current setup which is as follows:

* Panasonic HD TV
* TiVo Series 3 PVR.
* Comcast basic cable (not digital)
* Antennas Direct DB4 HDTV outdoor antenna
* Cable and OTA Antenna both go into the TiVo

I've got the current DB4 antenna pointing to the west and am fairly happy with the setup. I was thinking of adding another DB4 antenna pointing to the south-east, feeding it into a combiner (with equal cable lengths), and a pre-amp. Anyone have a gut feeling on if this would be worth the effort?

Thanks,

-TAC

p.s. current antenna is mounted on top of a two story house in a heavily wooded lot (50' trees).
post #1264 of 2706
How many HD cameras do they have there? Several shots sure look like stretchovision.
post #1265 of 2706
Quote:
Originally Posted by crites View Post

Looking for some suggestions for my current setup

What channels are you receiving, or rather what channels are you not receiving that makes you want to make a change?
post #1266 of 2706
Update: Meridian Township's upgrade just went through. 21 (yes, twenty-one) HD channels were added, as follows:

181 NHL
191 Discovery
192 TLC
193 Animal Planet
194 Sci-Fi
195 USA
196 TBS
197 Food Network
198 HGTV
199 National Geographic
200 A&E
201 FSN Detroit
204 TNT
207 Versus/Golf
208 Universal
211 Science
212 History Channel
213 CNN
222 AMC
229 Family
230 Disney

Update: Emailed History/A&E, HGTV, TBS, and TNT to complain about stretching.
post #1267 of 2706
Is it possible to get out of the DirecTV primary receiver lease fee if you buy your own receiver from something like Ebay or do they still charge the lease fee?
post #1268 of 2706
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by johns560 View Post

Is it possible to get out of the DirecTV primary receiver lease fee if you buy your own receiver from something like Ebay or do they still charge the lease fee?

To get out of the lease fee, you must own the receiver and that costs in the $700 range, i believe. Even if you get it off ebay or at a big box retailer, its still leased.

On to other matters...

I have been very tardy in updating the first post in our thread about HDs that are available. Life happens and i haven't been online as much.

I'll be working on that over the next few days to a week.

Any suggestions on improvement are always welcome.

I've completely lost contact with Cory at WLNS. Emails never get returned, last contact was about them getting ready for the Feb 09 switch. Not sure what happened with the 5.1 audio stuff or all the upgrades that were taking place.

I don't watch CBS but for sports and one primetime show. Hell I don't watch the locals that much at all.

I had to realign the D* dish this week because of low signals on the KA birds. If anybody needs help with this, please PM me and I can let you know what I learned.

I was sad to see that Lansing was not included in the HD LiL expansion from D*. After E* stepped up with two of the locals, I was hoping that Lansing might get a bump. Hopefully Q1 of '09.

I've been rewiring my house for a basement remodel. I'll post some pictures on my new rack setup for phone, satellite, cable, internet, etc. I'm pretty proud of it, for an amateur.
post #1269 of 2706
Thread Starter 
FSN Detroit has their August schedule up for events, nice to see all the college football games at the end of the month with the HD tag

Also, FSN Plus with have a spanish language broadcast of the Sat Aug 9th game vs the A's.

http://msn.foxsports.com/id/7042524
post #1270 of 2706
Quote:
Originally Posted by SMWinnie View Post

If you are:
  1. In East Lansing or Meridian;
  2. A Comcast digital cable subscriber;
  3. In an area that has the new HD channels (e.g., DisneyHD, SciFiHD) after the bump from 550MHz to 860MHz; and
  4. Using a TiVo with Cablecards (TiVo S3 or TiVoHD with CCs)
...please let me know whether you have access to the new channels. Comcast appears completely clueless about why my Motorola DVR gets the new channels but my TiVoHD doesn't.

Checking again now that the rollout is hitting more of Meridian.

I'm still having no luck getting anyone at Comcast to try the solution hounddog suggested. TiVo has totally thrown their hands in the air.
post #1271 of 2706
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SMWinnie View Post

Checking again now that the rollout is hitting more of Meridian.

I'm still having no luck getting anyone at Comcast to try the solution hounddog suggested. TiVo has totally thrown their hands in the air.

Have you tried asking for a tech supervisor?
post #1272 of 2706
Thread Starter 
Damn, all of last weeks posts are gone....

Antennaman, if you can recreate your antenna post, i'd love to add it to the first post of the thread.

Also, I've completed all of the updates to the first post (i think). I'll be updating it on thursday after the planned D* reorg and expansion.
post #1273 of 2706
jefbal99,

If your going to update the first post on this thread, you may want to update your information on WHTV-DT. I think they are now transmitting from the WLNS tower (your map shows WLAJ's tower).

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=29706
post #1274 of 2706
Comcast channels by frequency in Meridian Township (substantive re-post due to disappearance of last week's messages)

Recap: I was having trouble with audio dropouts and video freezing/macroblocking on Discovery and USA. I went through the trouble of creating the list below, and found that both are on the same 3-channel mux. I called Comcast, but they refused to believe it could be on their end (since no one else had complained) and insisted that sending a tech was the only option. I declined, and I'm hoping that any of you having similar issues can call Comcast and ask them to make a note of your problem (or at least post here).

Columns are as follows: Channel number, Frequency (MHz), Frequency ID (my personal coding; letter indicates common frequency grouping, number indicates how many channels are at that frequency), Channel name.
181 675 A1 NFL
191 753 B3 Discovery
192 681 C3 TLC
193 747 D3 Animal Planet
194 753 B3 Sci-Fi
195 753 B3 USA
196 639 E2 TBS
197 669 F3 Food Network
198 759 G3 HGTV
199 669 F3 National Geographic
200 759 G3 A&E
201 657 H2 FSN Detroit
202 693 I2 ESPN
203 693 I2 ESPN2
204 639 E2 TNT
205 747 D3 HD Theater
206 645 J2 MOJO
207 741 K3 Versus/Golf
208 669 F3 Universal
209 645 J2 MHD
211 633 L3 Science
212 747 D3 History Channel
213 741 K3 CNN
215 681 C3 HBO
217 681 C3 Cinemax
218 657 H2 Showtime
219 759 G3 Starz
222 741 K3 AMC
229 633 L3 Family
230 633 L3 Disney
231 147 M2 WLAJ (ABC)
232 159 N1 WILX (NBC)
233 153 O1 WLNS (CBS)
234 147 P1 WSYM (FOX)
240 153 M2 WKAR (PBS)
256 765 Q1 Big Ten Network
post #1275 of 2706
Quote:
Originally Posted by pierceive View Post


Recap: I was having trouble with audio dropouts and video freezing/macroblocking on Discovery and USA. I went through the trouble of creating the list below, and found that both are on the same 3-channel mux. I called Comcast, but they refused to believe it could be on their end (since no one else had complained) and insisted that sending a tech was the only option. I declined, and I'm hoping that any of you having similar issues can call Comcast and ask them to make a note of your problem (or at least post here).

I'm in Okemos and having the same audio and video problems on Discovery HD and USA HD.
post #1276 of 2706
The channel Big Ten Network HD is supposed to be going on to, 255, has been live here for a few days now. Sometimes it's just blank and sometimes it is showing Fox Business Channel. Why can't they just turn it on now
post #1277 of 2706
JEFBAL99,

I can recreate my original post in response to Gary B.'s comment regarding "saucer" antennas. I am going to break my response into 4 posts with a little structure this time.
1) Comments regarding "saucer" or "disc" antennas
2) Basic antenna installation techniques
3) Common mistakes/problems I have encountered over the years
4) Distribution primer---how cable, splitters, connectors, pre-amps, post-amps and devices affect signal and comparison of NTSC analog signals to ATSC digital signals.

Mike
post #1278 of 2706
Quote:
Originally Posted by jefbal99 View Post

Damn, all of last weeks posts are gone....

Antennaman, if you can recreate your antenna post, i'd love to add it to the first post of the thread.

Also, I've completed all of the updates to the first post (i think). I'll be updating it on thursday after the planned D* reorg and expansion.

Modified post regarding saucer antennas
My original post was in response to a comment about the “saucer like” omni-directional antenna that Gary B. has had a lot of complaints regarding their viability in the market. Over the last 40 years I have installed hundreds of antennas and dealt with digital signals over HFC networks here in Michigan and in South America. My response to the original post was basically to bring light to the fact that a large percentage of the problems with analog or digital reception lie in the distribution network and not the antenna.
As Gary stated, the saucer antenna is limited in its gain, its ability to reject signals from the side & back and general perception as a viable digital antenna. I assume WKAR gets most of its calls about poor signal from this antenna for three basic reasons: 1) Over the last 10-15 years, this type of antenna is the most installed antenna in the US because the direct satellite providers have used these antennas to pick up local channels and mount them typically just above the k-band dish. 2) These antennas are very easy for do-it-your-selfers to install—many sold by Radio Shack and over the Internet (easy to ship), so for the first two reasons, just sheer numbers would make this antenna the most used antenna today, thereby generating the most complaints . 3) These antennas were installed quickly to pick up a few network channels to provide local presence at the customers home.
Think about the way most Dish or DirecTV saucer installations have been done. The saucer is installed on a post that extends a few feet above the K-band dish in many cases below the roof line. Any transmitter signals behind this low position would be propagated by the house and roof line and the installation would look like an indoor or attic antenna with reduced gain.
Home owners tend to also install these antennas in attics, on decks or at low elevations just because it is easier or they do not want to attempt to climb the 10/12 pitch roof to get the best elevation. Remember, the first principle of antenna installation is HEIGTH, the higher the better in most cases.
In addition, these antennas come in two flavors—amplified and non-amplified. The amplified version is the only one I have used and works well if installed properly and meets the expectation of the end user. This antenna does have some directionality. When I install one, I use a spectrum analyzer to optimize and balance the gain of the desired signals
As to the non-amplified saucers, a pre-amp could be added to increase the gain (some amps as high as 24-26 dB.) I have not added a pre-amp to one and do not have experience as to the outcome either good or bad.
Next post “antenna install basics”
Mike
post #1279 of 2706
Quote:
Originally Posted by jefbal99 View Post

Damn, all of last weeks posts are gone....

Antennaman, if you can recreate your antenna post, i'd love to add it to the first post of the thread.


Also, I've completed all of the updates to the first post (i think). I'll be updating it on thursday after the planned D* reorg and expansion.



A proper installation of any omni-directional or directional antenna should utilize the following guidelines:

Height is everything. I normally install all antennas at least 10’-12’ above the highest roof line. 30’, 40’ & 50’ towers are great. I have put “saucers” or directionals on 30’ yard light poles and old wind mills.

Always try to position the antenna so that trees, buildings and other obstructions are out of line with the signals you are trying to receive.

Keep the coax run as short as possible. Only use RG-6u as opposed to RG-59u. In the distribution primer you will see why this is important given the losses involved at high UHF freqs up to 750Mhz. Coax should be secured every 24”-36” with proper fastening devices. I use tape or ty-wraps down the TV antenna mast or tower and 360 style clamps with a ¼”head using a cordless drill to install. I never use a clamp that has to be installed with a hammer—if you miss, the coax gets flattened, digital does not like coax that is flattened or bent in an acute angle—smooth bends in the coax only.

Use high quality one piece F-connectors (compression type) with good mechanical specs at high freqs and under digital conditions. If you cannot properly apply a good F-fitting, buy cables with good fittings already attached—this means every fitting in the network—one cheap jumper with push on connectors or bad integrity will drive you crazy. Many jumpers that come with the DTV converters VCR’s and other devices have push on connectors and are of very poor quality. I never use a push connector and every F-fitting should be tightened with a 7/16th wrench---if torqued properly, you should not be able to remove F-connecter with your fingers. You must be very careful tightening connectors on devices like the TV, VCR, DVD player, DTV converter as the F-81 connector on the device may turn if too much pressure is applied and the internal connector may break—finger tight, then a little torque with the wrench. Remember, digital signals do not like loose connectors!

Digital signals also do not like water or moisture. Every connection and device outside or in wet areas need to be impervious to water—completely water-proofed and sealed. If you are using 300ohm to 75 ohm matching transformers, splices, grounding blocks or pre=amps, make sure no moisture can compromise the connection or the device outside. I use a special pliable putty type sealer on every connector that 100% covers the whole connector. There are weather boots and other sealers that may work well also.

All outdoor antenna installations should be grounded (does not affect the signal integrity, but is code & might help save a device or protect from fire or electrocution) I always install a coated #10 copper grounding wire to the antenna mast, tower or tripod and bond it to the electrical mast, grounding wire or electrode. I also install a ground-block (F-81 with mounting holes & grounding lug) to ground the coax shield, this should be done at the lowest possible point before the coax enters the building.

Keep splits to a minimum. Only use a splitter that feeds the quantity of devices you are actively sending signal to. Use good quality splitters with an upper band-pass of 1Ghz (1000Mhz) If you are feeding two TVs, use a 2-way splitter, 3 TVs, a 3 way splitter etc. Un-terminated splitter ports can cause reflections that can disrupt digital signals. If you do have an open port, install a 75ohm terminator until you can replace the splitter. Make sure you keep your distribution network balanced. All cables should be home run to a central point and managed from one location if possible. If you have un-active cables in the building, mark them and only install them when they need to become active and terminated with a device like a TV.

If you are hooking your antenna lead to an existing network, try to inspect every inch of this network to make sure it has not been compromised with bad connections, unwanted splits or 300ohm flat lead.

If installing a pre-amp or post amp, make sure the power supply is installed in an area that is easy to get at. If installing a pre-amp, the power supply & power inserter should be installed before any splits, if this is not possible, a special splitter is necessary to pass power only to the antenna in port. I normally only use pre-amps when necessary to overcome the distribution losses and only use a pre-amp to overcome the cable & splitter loss and add a little additional gain for fringe signals. Remember, once you lose the digital info (the 1’s & 0’s) you cannot regain them---amplify early, overcome all combined losses to worst case leg of network.

Once you get to a device, utilize best interface with TV or between devices---HDMI, S-Video, Baseband cables etc. keep these interface cables short as possible, but leave enough slack to move and maintain equipment easily.

If installing a “saucer” antenna, optimize the signal on marginal channels by rotating the antenna until the desired channels are stable (most digital TVs or DTV converters have a simple signal meter feature) two people, two cell phones or FMRS radios make the job easier—one on roof, one at TV charting results. Note: there are also “saucer” antennas with a built-in rotor that has excellent gain and back side rejection—I use on for my primary digital TV.

Summary:
Get antenna as high as possible
Keep trees, buildings out of path between transmitter and antenna if possible
Use best antenna you can afford & best cables & passive devices-digital certified
Directional antenna with rotor with gain is best
Use pre-amp if necessary to overcome network losses
Keep moisture out of network
Tighten all connectors
Remember, most signals are or will be at Ultra High Frequencies and the distribution network cables and passive devices have very high insertion losses!---Digital info---once lost, it’s gone.
Migrate from RF to best available interface at each device whenever possible (TV, VCR, DVR, DVD, etc.)
Make diagram of your network for future reference.

Mike
post #1280 of 2706
Quote:
Originally Posted by ithaca View Post

I'm in Okemos and having the same audio and video problems on Discovery HD and USA HD.

+1; East Lansing
post #1281 of 2706
I'm wondering whether I have a shot at getting WXMI out of Grand Rapids with an attic antenna.

Between Comcast and an OTA attic antenna, we're happy with our Lansing/Jackson OTA reception, so we aren't going to put up a roof antenna just for blacked-out Lions games.

I have a Silver Sensor and a Zenith 901 CECB handy. As a reality check, if I go up there and point the Silver Sensor west should I expect to learn whether it's worth buying a highly directional UHF antenna and a Jointenna?

(TV Fool says I'm 54 miles from the tower, -88dbi in the air, and would need to be 70' AGL to get LOS.)
post #1282 of 2706
SMWinnie,

I don't know where you live, but I can get WXMI with a "silver sensor" antenna from my place a few miles NE of Potterville, but I live on a hill. Good luck.
post #1283 of 2706
Got the update today for the Comcast system in Lansing. The firmware is now 18.43. Yesterday is was still 18.34. From what I've read this should fix the no record light issue.
post #1284 of 2706
Thread Starter 
Great info Antenna Man, I'll add a link to those posts in the first post on thursday when I update it.

Thanks for the info on the WHTV transmitter, I'll update the image.

Good info on the Comcast channel frquencies, but they change very often, so I'm not posting it. I've also pulled the QAM listings because they are different for each area/head end.

Great to have the comcast channel number for BTN HD, I'll add it to the Comcast channel list.
post #1285 of 2706
Good info from comcast at http://www.comcast.com/michigan/
post #1286 of 2706
Thread Starter 
I've started the update process for the first post, including all channel additions to each carrier. I have removed the QAM section because they change to often and I don't have a QAM tuner to track the locals.

Outstanding updates needed:
Graphic showing the location of the WHTV transmitter
Contact info for WSYM Fox 47 Master Control (24 hr newsline goes to WILX)
Contact info for WKAR PBS 23 Master Control

If there is an E* sub on the forum, please validate all the info in the Dish Network section.

jb
post #1287 of 2706
As promised by Comcast, the Big Ten Network HD just went live in Meridian. I have added it to my post listing HD channel frequencies.
post #1288 of 2706
BTN is live here in Delta Township as well. Chs. 65, 255 and in HD on 256.
post #1289 of 2706
It's not live here in Brooklyn. The analog station is still showing the Hallmark Channel, the SD station is still showing Fox Business, and the HD channel says not available. Argh!
post #1290 of 2706
Correction - BTN went live in Meridian for those using analog or cable boxes. Those using CableCards don't get it yet. After the Olympics are done I'm going to raise a big fuss at Comcast because I'm not getting the channels I'm paying for on my Cable Cards. (Like others have reported). I've had techs out several times and many calls, and still nothing is resolved.

Rich
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