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My Journey to BluRay

post #1 of 49
2/16/07 at 12:44pm
Thread Starter 
Up until just 45 days ago I was 100% in the HD-DVD camp. No, I didn't own a player yet, but I wanted to see Sony fail because of the extra DRM scheme in the BluRay format. Add to that the dismal Samsung player, the poor transfers (Fifth Element), my self-imposed $500 maximum player requirement and you had a bonified HD-DVD Fanboy.

But what happened in the past few weeks is why I now believe BluRay will win this format war and do it by summer 2008.

The Journey to BluRay
It all started on a warm Northeast day on January 4th (yeah, it was about 65 F that day). I was sitting on my computer checking out the HD-DVD titles and the new Toshiba A2 player. What the #?$% !!! No analog outputs. I've got a six month old $1,700 A/V receiver that is NOT being upgraded. Well, no matter I'll just move up to the Toshiba XA2. And just like that I dropped my $500 self-imposed maximum player cost requirement.

The journey got much darker as CES 2007 ended - word of a DUAL format player, the LG BH100 was being release VERY SOON! I could have my cake and eat it too. After some research, I was all set to go with the LG when I started thinking - why didn't they put 7.1 analog outs on this thing? Why the doesn't it play CD's?

No biggy - the Sony BluRay doesn't do either of those things or the Pioneer. I started doing some research on why no one supported 7.1 analog when I found out the Panasonic BD10 did. But who cares - BluRay SUCKS!!!

Then after CES Universal didn't announce anything for HD-DVD. The days passed, but still nothing. I knew they would eventually announce something, but then I looked through the list of titles Universal had in their vault and I began to realize there were a few gems, but not much.

I started asking myself, why do I want HD-DVD? Do I want it so I can be a part of why Sony fails or do I want it to enjoy glorious high def content in my home theater? And if the latter, why do I want to miss out on SpiderMan 1/2/3, Pirates 1/2/3, Casino Royale? So I could instead watch the Good Shephard. Miss out on the entire Pixar movies so i could get the Bourne Identitiy and Bourne Supremacy? No Ice Age, Shrek 1/2/3 and instead watch ... ? In my mind I realized that I had run out of Universal titles to counteract the BluRay advantage. Universal couldn't even match Fox as a studio, let alone Sony and Disney as well.

I know its long been a BluRay montra that content will win this war, but I was firmly in the HD-DVD camp that low cost machines would drive the BluRay only studios to format neutrality and then to HD-DVD victory. But when? It then hit me, the answer was NEVER!

[deleted] This format war is over. Sure the fight will continue, but the over whelming studio advantage pushed me, a big HD-DVD fan, over to BluRay.
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post #2 of 49
2/16/07 at 1:00pm
Well, welcome to the dark side =p
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post #3 of 49
2/16/07 at 1:12pm
If only more people would realize that emotions get in the way of satisfying yourself sometimes. Shows alot of maturity on your part, good call dude!
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post #4 of 49
2/16/07 at 1:27pm
I'm following in your footsteps to some degree, but with great trepidation. If Blue Ray was made by anyone other than Sony, I'd probably buy it tonight. But Sony screwed up the PSP so badly that I'm very hesitant to ever follow their lead again. I also notice in reading these boards that many BlueRay backers are every bit as obnoxious as PlayStation fanboys -- no surprise really considering the largest BlueRay install base is the PS3 crowd. I want the same titles you listed that are exclusive to BlueRay, but I don't want to feel so dirty buying a PS3 and supporting people like Kutargi. Plus, a number of previously announced BlueRay titles have been delisted at Amazon over the past few days -- so I'm wondering what's up with that.

Ultimately, I think I may spring for the HD-DVD addon for now and hope things turnaround. If not then get a PS3 for Christmas if BlueRay wins (that way it's not my money going to Sony). At the very least, the addon would make for a nice piece of nostalgia. But HD-DVD needs to do something pretty quickly to show me they are serious about the future. I have money burning a hole in my pocket right now. I'm liable to have the same moment of sanity/insanity you went through and just spring for a PS3.

Thanks for sharing your story. Hope you enjoy your purchase!
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post #5 of 49
2/16/07 at 1:29pm
I must of been in the minority for sure. I mean I intended to own both before I even owned either format. I also seem to get some novalty(sp?) out of running both 1st gen players.
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post #6 of 49
2/16/07 at 1:30pm
Welcome!
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post #7 of 49
2/16/07 at 1:34pm
Come on in, the water's fine!

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post #8 of 49
2/16/07 at 1:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleTheater View Post

I started asking myself, why do I want HD-DVD? Do I want it so I can be a part of why Sony fails or do I want it to enjoy glorious high def content in my home theater? And if the latter, why do I want to miss out on SpiderMan 1/2/3, Pirates 1/2/3, Casino Royale? So I could instead watch the Good Shephard. Miss out on the entire Pixar movies so i could get the Bourne Identitiy and Bourne Supremacy? No Ice Age, Shrek 1/2/3 and instead watch ... ? In my mind I realized that I had run out of Universal titles to counteract the BluRay advantage. Universal couldn't even match Fox as a studio, let alone Sony and Disney as well.

As you've concluded, being against Sony is not a reason to deny yourself HD content. I'm always amazed so many are quite prepared to do so.

As I like to mention now and then, my criteria for choosing was totally selfish. I wanted:

- Full studio support
- Good CE support and player selection
- Computer burner use

Those were my three criteria two years ago. They are today. And Blu-ray is one studio from satisfying all three. Close enough for me to have purchased a PS/3.

I see nothing on the horizon that is going to significantly change this situation. And it is more likely it will improve in all three for Blu-ray than for HD DVD.

But, I don't dislike HD DVD. I don't dislike Toshiba. If HD DVD starts dominating in the future, and a great player is out there, I won't blink about changing my tune.

Gary
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post #9 of 49
2/16/07 at 1:39pm
I was in a very similar position, but it's difficult to remain loyal when the team you are supporting just decides to leave town with no forwarding address. I really tried to support HD but when they cut off my supply of movies, that was the last straw. So, since Feb 1st I decided to switch to BR and man I am in HD (make that BR) heaven. BR is actually trying to win this thing and become the dominant format. HD on the other hand, it seems, just wanted to prove they can win a 100m dash but they are not interested in a marathon. If they are not interested in the long term, I wonder why they even bothered building a lead and then throwing the race. Anyway, I am convinced that content is the most critical component of this "war" and, for this reason, BR will be the format of the future.
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post #10 of 49
2/16/07 at 2:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleTheater View Post

low cost machines would drive the BluRay only studios to format neutrality and then to HD-DVD victory. But when? It then hit me, the answer was NEVER!

I too think that Blu-ray is the better format to buy right now to watch movies because of studio support. The thing is that Blu-ray is not competitive on player price, so the vast majority of people would never consider making the same decision as you for a number of years. Simply, Blu-ray is far too expensive for the mass-market that does not want a PS3.

$500 retail is too expensive for HD DVD too for major adoption, but generally on standalone to standalone they do have around a $300 MSRP advantage. The market that these formats are after will not consider paying $300 to watch movies, let alone paying $300 MORE. I have never read anything which can give reason to why Blu-ray is so much more expensive, except maybe the conjecture that HD DVD is subsidising players. Still if Toshiba considered the situation before going in, I expect that they had to understand that initial volume would be low for both formats considering minimum costs to get in. Meaning, that they would have had to expect a long-term outlook going in.

For me as a Blu-ray owner, every bit of content is good news. The thing is that it matters almost nothing to anyone that will not pay that much for a player. Whose format are most people closest to being able to buy? It's certainly not Blu-ray. Enjoy your player and convice yourself about the future all you want, but as long as HD DVD remains in the game and continues the lower price margins I disagree about which of my players has a better chance of becoming obsolete.
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post #11 of 49
2/16/07 at 2:42pm
Although I still do not own a next gen player, BD or HDDVD, I was initially a big HD DVD fan. I figured hey, get in the market with players that are at a price point where a lot of people can afford. With that you build a good solid foundation of HD DVD fans and then release a myriad of content to totally dominate the market. Well one out of two is not bad... I guess. HD DVD totally squandered their initial market lead on this war. They came out of the gate like gangbusters only to trip and fall a third into the race! Come on, what good is flooding the market with cheaper players ( and even cheaper when the Chinese enter the war in the next few months) when you have no content to play on them?

It's like arming your soldiers with the latest greatest weapon but forgot to equip them with the ammunition. Hey, I am not pleased that BD players are more expensive ( I don't count the PS3- it is a gaming console IMO) but at least you have tons of content and more coming! So I will take the plunge to BD in the near future ( would like a second gen player with 7.1 analog outs ).

My only concern is that Battlestar Galactica is a Universal release But I do not think I would purchase a HD DVD player just for that series- unless I can get one for $199 ( which would probably happen towards the end of the year.
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post #12 of 49
2/16/07 at 2:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by milit View Post

I was in a very similar position, but it's difficult to remain loyal when the team you are supporting just decides to leave town with no forwarding address. I really tried to support HD but when they cut off my supply of movies, that was the last straw. So, since Feb 1st I decided to switch to BR and man I am in HD (make that BR) heaven. BR is actually trying to win this thing and become the dominant format. HD on the other hand, it seems, just wanted to prove they can win a 100m dash but they are not interested in a marathon. If they are not interested in the long term, I wonder why they even bothered building a lead and then throwing the race. Anyway, I am convinced that content is the most critical component of this "war" and, for this reason, BR will be the format of the future.

Let's see why or how studios go neutral:

Right now the incremental revenue for an exclusive studio is sa small after the initial set up costs, that staying exclusive costs them very little lost revenue.

When the market increases, it is inevitable to see studios go neutral. No company will leave money on the table, especially when it is their core business.

The markets now for both formats are too small to matter in a studios decision making process. The home video market is very much about DVD.

How many game makers are now exclusive to xbox and PS3?
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post #13 of 49
2/16/07 at 2:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by den110 View Post

Come on, what good is flooding the market with cheaper players ( and even cheaper when the Chinese enter the war in the next few months) when you have no content to play on them?

For someone that does not have a player, there is a large amount of content. If things continue as they are, by the time these things become affordable there will be so many titles available that most people will not notice that studios are not on board. The same thing, if Blu-ray was cheaper it would be attractive, and people wouldn't take stock that Universal wasn't involved. Put it this way, if I'm an average person and I want to get The Departed - which format am I inclined to buy? Unless Toshiba totally underestimated the PS3's ability to sell for its price point, I think that today's situation was something that they would have considered before they got involved.
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post #14 of 49
2/16/07 at 3:01pm
Welcome.

Many people will come to the same rational decision that you did. If people divorce the emotion from the equation and look at the release lineups Blu-ray has the clear advantage. Plus CE support from multiple vendors. There will certainly be major price cuts for blu-ray players in the future. The most important thing is the studio support (ie movies with actual shipping dates) not vague promises of more movies in the not so near future. No one can deny the level of commitment blu-ray studios have on the software side of the equation. No need to invest time and money in a format only to feel abandoned. People can read the software sections of this forum and see for themselves the level of commitment each side is giving their supporters and make their own purchasing decisions.
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post #15 of 49
2/16/07 at 3:46pm
[quote=alluringreality]For someone that does not have a player, there is a large amount of content.

That is precisely why long-time supporters are leaving in droves. They have had their machines since inception and have bought all the titles and now they are left with precious few options. Based on HD's recent action (or inaction) I guess it is their plan is to get new customers so they can buy all the available discs and to he*l with these who already own most HD DVDs. Yeah, we don't matter. No, wait, BR would gladly take our money and loyalty. Hmmm, nice going HD!!!
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post #16 of 49
2/16/07 at 3:58pm
Simple,

Welcome aboard. I agree with everything you posted in your message. I made the same decision as you around 3 months a go. Blu-ray is on fire now and I see no end to the momentum they have generated. As I always say, "Content Is King."

~Josh
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post #17 of 49
2/16/07 at 4:08pm
I am in the HD-dvd camp with a HD-a1 i picked up used....if BD wins then I will wait a few years and buy a BD for $99 bucks..i see nothing wrong with owning both formats. But not at todays prices. I watch a couple dozen movies a year....so I should not run out of HD-dvd's any time soon
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post #18 of 49
2/16/07 at 4:23pm
My journey to blu-ray hasn't begun. No players cheap enough yet. Lots of blu-ray movies I want, but I'll have to catch on satellite instead
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post #19 of 49
2/16/07 at 4:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by plazman View Post

Let's see why or how studios go neutral:

Right now the incremental revenue for an exclusive studio is sa small after the initial set up costs, that staying exclusive costs them very little lost revenue.

When the market increases, it is inevitable to see studios go neutral. No company will leave money on the table, especially when it is their core business.

The markets now for both formats are too small to matter in a studios decision making process. The home video market is very much about DVD.

How many game makers are now exclusive to xbox and PS3?

Good points!!
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post #20 of 49
2/16/07 at 4:37pm
This is great news for HDDVD!
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post #21 of 49
2/16/07 at 5:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by milit View Post

They have had their machines since inception and have bought all the titles and now they are left with precious few options.

A majority of the people that bought HD DVD probably understood the situation - there were simply not as many studios committed to supporting the format. The thing is that they still bought HD DVD. So in a way you do support my point, a good portion of buyers went with HD DVD regardless of content due to the lower player prices.

Far as I know the formats currently have around the same number of releases. Highdefdigest shows like 160 for HD DVD and about another dozen for Blu-ray. The future counts show around double in favor of Blu-ray. At the current rate, maybe in a year Blu-ray could have more than twice as many movies as HD DVD. At that time, comments of Blu-ray having a comparatively prodigious amount of content might be more relevant.

When it comes to playing movies, what does Blu-ray offer that HD DVD can't match? If you can come up with a reason, then ask - why would someone want to pay more for that supposed benefit? Based on past video game launches and typical electronics trends, at some point HD DVD will likely again have a clear price advantage. So besides a coup of studios, why would large segments of people be tempted to buy Blu-ray? I already own both so I'm most interested in widespread adoption, and (in spite of the troubles I've had with Toshiba products) I still fail to see any real advantage that Blu-ray brings the customer for buying a more expensive player.
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post #22 of 49
2/16/07 at 6:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichFan View Post

I'm following in your footsteps to some degree, but with great trepidation. If Blue Ray was made by anyone other than Sony, I'd probably buy it tonight. But Sony screwed up the PSP so badly that I'm very hesitant to ever follow their lead again.

How did Sony screw up PSP?
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post #23 of 49
2/16/07 at 6:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wreckshop View Post

How did Sony screw up PSP?

It's the hip thing to say now. Didn't you know, Sony is the new Boogeyman.
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post #24 of 49
2/16/07 at 10:02pm
Quote:
When it comes to playing movies, what does Blu-ray offer that HD DVD can't match?

Uncompressed PCM.
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post #25 of 49
2/16/07 at 10:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wreckshop View Post

How did Sony screw up PSP?

They didn't screw it up, per say, it was just a bad idea from the start. They tried to do what they did with the playstation, make really powerful hardware that's packed with features. The problem is that while that (sadly) worked on a console it's a millstone on a handheld. People want light, portable handhelds with cheap games and a long battery life, Sony gave them expensive games (at least to develop) and short battery life. Also a lot of early titles were just PS2 games, so people who also owned a PS2 had little fresh content.

But despite this, the PSP has sold fairly well and Sony have shown that they can maximise the potential of their products. The difference with Blu-ray is that it doesn't have the same flaws in it's concept.
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post #26 of 49
2/16/07 at 11:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleTheater View Post

Up until just 45 days ago I was 100% in the HD-DVD camp. No, I didn't own a player yet, but I wanted to see Sony fail because of the extra DRM scheme in the BluRay format. Add to that the dismal Samsung player, the poor transfers (Fifth Element), my self-imposed $500 maximum player requirement and you had a bonified HD-DVD Fanboy.

But what happened in the past few weeks is why I now believe BluRay will win this format war and do it by summer 2008.

The Journey to BluRay
It all started on a warm Northeast day on January 4th (yeah, it was about 65 F that day). I was sitting on my computer checking out the HD-DVD titles and the new Toshiba A2 player. What the #?$% !!! No analog outputs. I've got a six month old $1,700 A/V receiver that is NOT being upgraded. Well, no matter I'll just move up to the Toshiba XA2. And just like that I dropped my $500 self-imposed maximum player cost requirement.

The journey got much darker as CES 2007 ended - word of a DUAL format player, the LG BH100 was being release VERY SOON! I could have my cake and eat it too. After some research, I was all set to go with the LG when I started thinking - why didn't they put 7.1 analog outs on this thing? Why the doesn't it play CD's?

No biggy - the Sony BluRay doesn't do either of those things or the Pioneer. I started doing some research on why no one supported 7.1 analog when I found out the Panasonic BD10 did. But who cares - BluRay SUCKS!!!

Then after CES Universal didn't announce anything for HD-DVD. The days passed, but still nothing. I knew they would eventually announce something, but then I looked through the list of titles Universal had in their vault and I began to realize there were a few gems, but not much.

I started asking myself, why do I want HD-DVD? Do I want it so I can be a part of why Sony fails or do I want it to enjoy glorious high def content in my home theater? And if the latter, why do I want to miss out on SpiderMan 1/2/3, Pirates 1/2/3, Casino Royale? So I could instead watch the Good Shephard. Miss out on the entire Pixar movies so i could get the Bourne Identitiy and Bourne Supremacy? No Ice Age, Shrek 1/2/3 and instead watch ... ? In my mind I realized that I had run out of Universal titles to counteract the BluRay advantage. Universal couldn't even match Fox as a studio, let alone Sony and Disney as well.

I know its long been a BluRay montra that content will win this war, but I was firmly in the HD-DVD camp that low cost machines would drive the BluRay only studios to format neutrality and then to HD-DVD victory. But when? It then hit me, the answer was NEVER!

[deleted] This format war is over. Sure the fight will continue, but the over whelming studio advantage pushed me, a big HD-DVD fan, over to BluRay.


You never bought an HD DVD player so you never were a true fan. A wolf in sheeps clothing. In any event. It's about HD content not some self-described journey to fandom.
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post #27 of 49
2/17/07 at 1:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by HPforMe View Post

You never bought an HD DVD player so you never were a true fan. A wolf in sheeps clothing. In any event. It's about HD content not some self-described journey to fandom.

Who cares, the point is that he saw the light and that's what counts.
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post #28 of 49
2/17/07 at 6:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by camaj View Post

They didn't screw it up, per say, it was just a bad idea from the start. They tried to do what they did with the playstation, make really powerful hardware that's packed with features. The problem is that while that (sadly) worked on a console it's a millstone on a handheld. People want light, portable handhelds with cheap games and a long battery life, Sony gave them expensive games (at least to develop) and short battery life. Also a lot of early titles were just PS2 games, so people who also owned a PS2 had little fresh content.

But despite this, the PSP has sold fairly well and Sony have shown that they can maximise the potential of their products. The difference with Blu-ray is that it doesn't have the same flaws in it's concept.

Thanks for fielding that one for me, Camaj. I agree mostly with that you said about PSP, and will add a little to it.

My biggest grievance with Sony and PSP is that they only allow UMD-Video to run at full screen resolution. They force you to use reduced resolution transfers for your own videos. In typical Sony arrogance, they act like that beautiful little LCD is theirs, and we should just be be glad they are letting us use it at all. They clearly have the ability to let PSP owners have access to every pixel on the LCD. They clearly don't care about what their customers want.

So while BlueRay has momentum and better family titles, it would greatly sicken me if I end up getting a PS3 after the way Sony has treated me in the past. If the HD-DVD association wasn't acting like they're comatose with a 4-foot hole sitting next to them, I'd be buying a 360 add-on today.
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post #29 of 49
2/17/07 at 7:19am
I keep scratching my head why some many folks HATE SONY, but want to support Microsoft's preferred format HD-DVD.

Do those same folks love Microsoft, or just hate Sony that much more ???

And what is up with "hating" any company, if you don't like them do not buy their products, or anything else they have brought to the world.
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post #30 of 49
2/17/07 at 8:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by plazman View Post

Let's see why or how studios go neutral:

Right now the incremental revenue for an exclusive studio is sa small after the initial set up costs, that staying exclusive costs them very little lost revenue.

When the market increases, it is inevitable to see studios go neutral. No company will leave money on the table, especially when it is their core business.

The markets now for both formats are too small to matter in a studios decision making process. The home video market is very much about DVD.

How many game makers are now exclusive to xbox and PS3?


I agree. That is why when BD has a 3 or 4x title advantage over HD DVD and consumers see the size difference and are buying up BD players in droves, Universal will succumb and go neutral.

But your argument does not hold for why BD'ers will go HD DVD because there doesn't seem to be much reason to do so and the BDA is doing their damnedest to make sure that stays true. They don't want two formats. I don't blame them one bit. I don't want two formats either. And most consumers don't want two formats, either.

Just Universal, Toshiba, Microsoft, and those poor souls last year that invested only in HD DVD because they believed that Universal could carry a format.
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