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What is the deal with Wilson speakers?

post #1 of 79
2/18/07 at 6:23pm
Thread Starter 
OK - showing my gross ignorance here. Have quietly read some of the posts, threads about how amazing the Wilsons are. Frankly found it hard to believe that it could be so - or at least they could be worth the money. I have Maggie 3.5rs that I thought were ok.

Yes, thought - heard my first Sophia 2 (II?)s this weekend. OMG. I really thought my 3.5s were nice, even tho they didn't cost enough to let me post in this forum. But the cute little Sophias are a good notch better.

So I have two questions. How can such a simple looking speaker sound so good (after all, a two hundred dollar Klipsh at BB will have superficially similar components?) And, without trying to start anything, how can they cost so danged much? - I know, free country, charge what you want, etc. I'm guess what I'm really curious about, is why can't I find something that costs an order of magnitude less, but sounds very close. Which, maybe, brings me back to the first question - why, without getting into Wilson's proprietary secrets, do Wilson's sound so much better than other speakers that in theory, could sound as good?
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post #2 of 79
2/18/07 at 6:43pm
Many people think differently than you about Wilsons being the be all and end all of speakers. You need to figure out what you want out of an audio system and go for that system. If Wilson is what you end up liking best, then you should get them, if it is something else, you should get those.

I would put money that the components in the sophia are a great deal superior to low end klipsch speakers though...
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post #3 of 79
2/18/07 at 6:43pm
it is not the parts, it is the positioning of such. and the crossover and the materials.

Any ten guys can take the same parts and make very different things.
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post #4 of 79
2/18/07 at 8:02pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TPigeon2006 View Post

I would put money that the components in the sophia are a great deal superior to low end klipsch speakers though...

I understand. Be all, end all. No - since these were the first Wilsons I have heard, obviously there are other speakers I also haven't heard. But I was impressed. Without having any real idea as to why they sound as good as they do.
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post #5 of 79
2/19/07 at 6:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingvee View Post

I understand. Be all, end all. No - since these were the first Wilsons I have heard, obviously there are other speakers I also haven't heard. But I was impressed. Without having any real idea as to why they sound as good as they do.

I was impressed too. Still like the sound and the look. Preferred them over many others. Then I auditioned Salk HT3's and I was really bitten. See if you can find someone in your area that will audition them for you by checking over at Audio Cirle or with Jim Salk directly. A bargain if there ever was one in speakers.
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post #6 of 79
2/19/07 at 8:02am
Take a look at the Rockport Arrakis speakers. Simply make the Wilson's look weak in comparison. You can see them in this photo from Ultimate Audio Video.

Really, there is no comparison...

http://www.ultimateaudiovideo.cityma...ge/3698484.htm

Company's direct web-site as well: http://www.rockporttechnologies.com/
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post #7 of 79
2/19/07 at 8:25am
Thread Starter 
Wow - sounds like I need to do a lot more research before parting with any money. Sorry to think that before, the only upgrade path I saw was to buy some MG 20.1rs - top of Magneplaner line, Maggies are best, etc......
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post #8 of 79
2/19/07 at 8:57am
Give a call to Ron at Ultimate. Incredibly knowledgable guy and can easily set you up for a demo. When you are spending a good amount of money on truly "top-end" speakers, the dealer you work with is very, very important.

Let him know that Peter sent you - he's a good friend and should be able to help out.
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post #9 of 79
2/19/07 at 9:12am
The most important thing you should do is take a db meter to al your listening sessions to make sure that you are not just liking the louder speakers. All speakers should be playing at the same db levels.
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post #10 of 79
2/19/07 at 10:39am
Flyingvee just to emphasise the Rockport Arrakis are 145K so they are not comparable to Sophias at 14K or 20.1s. My apologies if you had already taken it into consideration.

BTW a comparsion of Arrakis with the MM3s would be quiet interesting.
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post #11 of 79
2/19/07 at 7:52pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dollarman View Post

Flyingvee just to emphasise the Rockport Arrakis are 145K so they are not comparable to Sophias at 14K or 20.1s. My apologies if you had already taken it into consideration.

Holy sweet Mary I'm sorry - yes, that is out of my realm. Sophias are even a touch rich - which is why I was wondering what made them so special. I know I'm trespassing in this forum - the salesman wanted to show me the Maxs, but like an idiot I turned him down. Guess I should have listened, but at 48k, even if I had loved them, would have passed. Like my old Les Pauls, Strats, and Flying Vees too much to trade them for spkrs - Sophias or 20.1s I can swing. Are you sure 145 k isn't a typo?
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post #12 of 79
2/19/07 at 7:54pm
You do realize that Rockport makes MUCH cheaper speakers as well. Arrakis is just their "top-of-the-line".

Amazing though - and even though I was a skeptic, worth every penny!
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post #13 of 79
2/19/07 at 8:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dollarman View Post

Flyingvee just to emphasise the Rockport Arrakis are 145K so they are not comparable to Sophias at 14K or 20.1s. My apologies if you had already taken it into consideration.

BTW a comparsion of Arrakis with the MM3s would be quiet interesting.

Wait... Arrakis? As in DUNE, Arrakis?

Does that mean they have an arid sound? ^_^;
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post #14 of 79
2/20/07 at 6:55am
How about putting the Arrakis against the Wilson X-2 and see where the marbles fall?
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post #15 of 79
2/20/07 at 7:53am
It's been done.

I think Goodwins has had both in. You may want to speak to them about their comparison between the two.
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post #16 of 79
2/20/07 at 8:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterS View Post

It's been done.

I think Goodwins has had both in. You may want to speak to them about their comparison between the two.

Peter


Let's just say that your original (now deleted) post is too funny. IOW you "think" that they went head to head but you have never heard both.
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post #17 of 79
2/20/07 at 9:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by oneobgyn View Post

How about putting the Arrakis against the Wilson X-2 and see where the marbles fall?

You are right. I liked X-2 much better than Dune too .
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post #18 of 79
2/20/07 at 10:16am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TPigeon2006 View Post

You are right. I liked X-2 much better than Dune too .

ok - but if we're going there, I prefer Frank Herbert's original book to any of the comic books.
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post #19 of 79
2/20/07 at 12:20pm
I have heard both now. However, it was not in a side-by-side. I have heard that Goodwins has indeed done exactly that - and thus suggest an unbiased opinion may be had by speaking to them and seeing what their opinion is.
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post #20 of 79
2/20/07 at 2:44pm
I have also heard both but not side by side as well. Of course I am biased because I own X-2's. As for Goodwin's opinion I always take them with a grain of salt.
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post #21 of 79
2/21/07 at 3:07am
One very important question.. to the original poster. Did you hear the Sophias and MG 3.5 with the same gear (amp, preamp, cables, Sources, etc), in the same room?
These can make a world of difference.
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post #22 of 79
2/21/07 at 5:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrantzM View Post

One very important question.. to the original poster. Did you hear the Sophias and MG 3.5 with the same gear (amp, preamp, cables, Sources, etc), in the same room?
These can make a world of difference.

so also the Arrakis vs the X-2

BTW, to the original poster, for the money the Sophia ll is a wonderful speaker.
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post #23 of 79
2/21/07 at 6:56am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrantzM View Post

One very important question.. to the original poster. Did you hear the Sophias and MG 3.5 with the same gear (amp, preamp, cables, Sources, etc), in the same room?
These can make a world of difference.

No, I didn't. And that would probably be worth the hassle, if and when I get close to dropping the dime. At the least, I could ask the dealer, see if it was allowable. Best I could do is listen to the same source material, that I am fairly familiar with.

Dealer had a better pre; while I greatly prefer my power amp, it is definitely different than his (custom Mesa Baron, vs the solid-state unit he was using,) and his cd player was likely better. Again, for sure it cost more. Shoot - if one fully subscribes to cabling differences, his 6k cables alone could have made the difference, compared to my lowly 1k cables.

But even with all of the electronics, and the room, I'm fairly sure that most of the difference came from the Sophias, compared to my Maggies. The dealer I normally go to, which is, duh, primarily a Maggie dealer, always demos new and different electronics for me on 3.6s - and the result is usually incrementally better than my system, or at the least different, but I never hear enough difference to warrant upgrading.

That is a good point tho - now you have me curious, as to how my speakers would sound on their gear, or vice versa. And I hadn't even considered room - which is really a huge difference, at least with Maggies. I don't know about Wilsons and room interaction, but I purchased my 3.5s with a complete system - spkr, cable, pre, power, and cd player. They sounded pretty nice in the room where I auditioned. They were completely different in my room. While I still love the speakers, the only other items I'm still using are the cables and cd transport.

Thanks for the reminders.
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post #24 of 79
2/21/07 at 7:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingvee View Post

No, I didn't. And that would probably be worth the hassle, if and when I get close to dropping the dime. At the least, I could ask the dealer, see if it was allowable. Best I could do is listen to the same source material, that I am fairly familiar with.

Dealer had a better pre; while I greatly prefer my power amp, it is definitely different than his (custom Mesa Baron, vs the solid-state unit he was using,) and his cd player was likely better. Again, for sure it cost more. Shoot - if one fully subscribes to cabling differences, his 6k cables alone could have made the difference, compared to my lowly 1k cables.

But even with all of the electronics, and the room, I'm fairly sure that most of the difference came from the Sophias, compared to my Maggies. The dealer I normally go to, which is, duh, primarily a Maggie dealer, always demos new and different electronics for me on 3.6s - and the result is usually incrementally better than my system, or at the least different, but I never hear enough difference to warrant upgrading.

That is a good point tho - now you have me curious, as to how my speakers would sound on their gear, or vice versa. And I hadn't even considered room - which is really a huge difference, at least with Maggies. I don't know about Wilsons and room interaction, but I purchased my 3.5s with a complete system - spkr, cable, pre, power, and cd player. They sounded pretty nice in the room where I auditioned. They were completely different in my room. While I still love the speakers, the only other items I'm still using are the cables and cd transport.

Thanks for the reminders.

To my ears it is the fundamental difference between a dynamic speaker and an electrostatic speaker. One moves air and the other doesn't....bearing in mind that sound is also felt as well as heard
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post #25 of 79
2/21/07 at 7:53am
I thought all speakers move air. If not ,could I trouble you for an explanation?
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post #26 of 79
2/21/07 at 10:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulwozniak View Post

I thought all speakers move air. If not ,could I trouble you for an explanation?

I think he meant "moves a lot of air" as in "plays loud/has deep bass".
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post #27 of 79
2/21/07 at 10:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingvee View Post

How can such a simple looking speaker sound so good (after all, a two hundred dollar Klipsh at BB will have superficially similar components?)

Vibrating air is easy. Vibrating it with incredible precision is very difficult.
Quote:



And, without trying to start anything, how can they cost so danged much?

Because they can and because it's a very limited production item. You could build any of these high-end speakers for 1/5-1/10 the price if you could mass produce them and sell all of them. But then again, they wouldn't "sound as good" if they were affordable either.
Quote:



why, without getting into Wilson's proprietary secrets, do Wilson's sound so much better than other speakers that in theory, could sound as good?

Because you like the sound? Lots of speakers are as good or better, but if you prefer the sound, then they are better *to you*. Wilson is basically all about rigid cabinets and the ability to play loud with, I'd assume, low distortion. Other speakers have better FR accuracy or better dispersion or other characteristics that others may prefer. Wilson is amongst those "love it or hate it" brands and I hear people go ga-ga and I hear people say they don't understand the attraction. I still haven't heard any of them.
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post #28 of 79
2/21/07 at 10:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

I think he meant "moves a lot of air" as in "plays loud/has deep bass".

John...this is a red letter day because by my recollections this is the first time that you and I have ever been in agreement

I used to own the large Maggies and loved them until I realized that there was no bass articulation.
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post #29 of 79
2/21/07 at 10:20am
Thread Starter 
Just contacted dealer. Gotta give them credit - darned helpful. Sorta like visiting a Lexus dealer, as opposed to, say the Kia dealer. (which I had to visit, since they are also the local Mazda dealer, and I wanted a Miata. )

He even said he would let me drag in my 3.5s, if I wanted. AFAIC, that's going above and beyond the call of duty.

John - I haven't heard any of the other "hi-end" speakers being discussed above. I had always thought that Magnepan made hi-end spkrs. Looks like I have lots of homework to do - but I did like the Sophia IIs. If for no other reason than that they sound a lot like the Maggies (which I have owned, in one version or another ever since the '70s, with my T-1As.) Except that the Wilson is just a bit more open and spacious (hard to believe) - better transient response, while being as smooth as my Maggies, without being harsh or strident.

So all I reallly know is that the Sophia II (2?) is the first traditional speaker I have heard that would make me consider changing teams. And for me, that's something.
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post #30 of 79
2/21/07 at 10:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

Vibrating air is easy. Vibrating it with incredible precision is very difficult.

That is a very profound statement. Profound in both its intent and its simplicity. And needs to be on a plaque in the speaker room of every speaker shop.
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