***Official HSU owners/support thread!*** - Page 76

I'm thinking of adding the VTF3 MK3 to my system. Thought of doing 2 but would way too much overkill. Room is only @ 2500 cubic feet and I see that the VTF3 is designed for up to a 6000 cubic foot room.With that being said and room is 1/2 the size, I should have plenty of room to spare and get phenomenal results from this sub. I have tile floors and think that down firing would not be great for my situation. My question is does the VTF3 clearly outperform the SVS PSD 12 sub? All the reading and reviews are very positive on both and only a $60-$100 difference in the subs including shipping. I want a sub that I can feel when the bullets are fired in the movie Taken. The sub will be used 90% movies, 5% music and 5% gaming and HD tv viewing (sports). I am running an Outlaw LFM-EX1, on an auralex now in the room. The sound is good but from the reading on AVS, I'm inching closer and closer to the VTF3 and it's side woofer and 4" rear firing ports. Also, are there still turbos availabe out there? My friend has one and the sound and feel are something that I've never heard before on any sub, including my own. thanks in advance.

sydneybird -- I think I mentioned in an earlier post that I finally blew both drivers in my old HRSW10s. I drove each of them with a 350 watt per channel Carver amp, so they had plenty of power. Nevertheless, their age had made the driver material so brittle they just couldn't handle the loads provided by movie soundtracks with a lot of LFE.

The VTF-3 MK3 Turbo that I bought to replace the HRSW10s dramatically improved my system. I couldn't be happier. I was never tempted to make an upgrade before because while the HRSW10s drivers held up, they worked decently most of the time but, like yours, bottomed out occasionally. Nevertheless, by the time the drivers blew out they were more than 15 years old so I figured it was time for a change. The VTF-3 MK3 Turbo has been a revelation, particularly with BD movies and HD Codecs. For example, the LFE on the TrueHD soundtrack on the Ironman BD is great. Highly recommended!

Thanks gwsat. I'm going to take it easy on my HRSW10s until I can pull the trigger on a new Hsu, and from your review, it should be a VTF-3 MK3, maybe adding a MBM to my Mirage Omnisat v2's, or maybe use the HRSW10's as a MBM. I guess what your are saying is also a testament to be careful buying vintage subs to save money. I had always wanted to try a pair of TN's but what is the point if the woofs may be brittle. I guess it wouldn't matter as much if the cones were other than paper. It is also possible that driver technology has advanced over the last 10 years to make a sonic difference. I'm still skeptical of driver marketing. Looking at the woofs on the HRSW10, the surrounds are foam so I can definitely see where that can crumble with age. My foam is still in pretty good shape to tide me over.

My theater room in my basement is very long and skinny. (50'X11'X7.5') I use the north half for my theater and the south half for ping pong with a 2ply black cloth divider in the middle. I was wondering what if building a wall to replace the black cloth divider would increase bass output in the theater or not. If I were to build a wall then I could put the sub by the back couch against the new wall if you think that would help. I havn't tried placing the sub behind the back couch yet but that might boost output a little. If any of you guys have any ideas on what I could do BESIDES putting in a wall let me know. otherwise I might have to make a wall. I work at a sawmill so lumber is free, but the other materials aren't. please view the attatchment that I worked so hard to make in paint! thanks

What do you guys consider an acceptable volume for the towers? I use the Onkyo 805 and I just turned my volume up to 57.

The speakers and 3.3 and MBM came ALIVE!

Is that what you mean by playing at referrence levels????

The only reliable way to decide on listening levels for a 5.1 or 7.1 audio system is to set it with an SPL meter, which measures the volume in decibels, then use your own judgment to decide what is loud enough. Radio Shack sells SPL meters for a moderate price. I keep mine near my listening chair. For movies I set my audio system at an average level of about 75 dB for dialog, which results in a maximum level of a little less than 100 dB during most loud passages.

While how you set the relative levels of the speakers in your system is a matter of personal taste, I set all my speakers but the sub at the same level. I set my sub, a VTF-3 MK3 Turbo, at an SPL level 4 dB higher than that of the other speakers, which was Hsu's recommendation.

If you set your speakers at 75 db and your sub(s) at 72-73 db, then you have a flat setting for your system. You will hear much more detail from your speakers as the sub(s) are properly set in relation to your speakers. HSU only recomended a 4 db increase with the 3.3 turbo and not for max output mode.
Bill

I had forgotten that he was using an MBM along with his 3.3. As I have had no experience with such a setup, I can’t disagree with your suggestion, although I would be very interested to hear what Pete_Hsu has to say about the matter. What you say makes sense to me.

Hello,
Would anyone be able to offer any recommendations on setting the gain on my VTF-1?

I generally have it set to about 1/3rd and have had it set at 1/2 for short periods of time.

I've had a hard time figuring out how high I can safely turn up the gain without causing damage. I've turned it up high and heard distortion before - but I've also had it at 1/3rd or so and heard a strange thud noise - which I don't know if that's the sub bottoming out (I guess that would be max excursion)? Or something else.

I've heard some say that some HSU subs suffer from port-chuffing.

Thanks in advance.

At 11 o'clock, would be a good start on that sub.

Have you calibrated it with an SPL meter?
How large is your room?
How far are you seated from sub distance?

The heavy thud you are hearing is "bottoming" probably. You are overdriving the sub, if that is happening. Lower the gain a little bit, or you can cause damage to the driver. Depending on freq vs input signal, the driver will be required to move more at some passages than anothers...When the mechanical clearance of the driver is exceeded you will hear the former, where the vc is glued, hitting the magnet structure which causes the "loud" pop sound.
If you are noticing that you have the sub at good volume, and still it still makes the "pop" sound constantly, call HSU technical support. Leo or Pete will help you from there.

I have calibrated it before - but it's not currently. I found myself changing the gain too often... I have a new preamp and will need to do so again.

Room is 10'x18'
Seated about.......13 feet away.
Sub is toward the front of the room near one of the front speakers. I don't like the placement but I'm a little limited in room placement. I'm not sure if thud is the best word, "thwap" sounds better (I'm sorry that sounds stupid, it just doesn't sound quite like a pop or thud).

I noticed it mostly when watching Transformers - which I know is notorious for its bass. I even played around with the bass extension. It seemed like with bass extension turned off (and one port plugged) - I was less likely to get the noise.

I'd say that I didn't usually have it past the 10'o clock position when I was testing..

One thing that I noticed when trying to use REW to calibrate my BFD (not currently setup) that when pink noise was played through the sub closer to 80 db it started to sound a little muddy. Is that normal?

The sub hasn't had heavy use.. I'm just trying to understand if I'm merely hitting the performance limits of the sub (I just don't know enough about subs to know what to expect).

If you don't have an SPL meter, I highly recommend that you get one. Radio Shack has them for $49.99. I have had my Radio Shack SPL meter for many years and keep it within easy reach of my usual viewing and listening position. With an SPL meter you can easily and accurately set overall listening levels as well as calibrate the output of each of your speakers relative to the others.

It strikes me that your VTF-1 might serve you better if you could figure out a way to place it in a nearfield position, that is right next to where you usually sit when you use your audio system. For many years I used a pair of the old original Hsu HRSW10s. Like you, I had them setup a good distance from my listening location and, like your VTF-1, they would bottom out fairly often. When I replaced them with a VTF-3 MK3 Turbo last year, I setup my new sub is a nearfield location right next to my listening position. The combination of a substantial increase in power, a larger driver, the Turbo, and the nearfield location made a DRAMATIC difference for the better.

Thanks - I really appreciate your input. I actually do have a RS meter - I purchased it 2-3 years ago. I've found it very very useful for a number of things (including checking the noise outside when I projected a movie outdoors to make sure I wouldn't bother neighbors!)

I'll have to look into a way to move the sub closer. Thanks for your experiences too.

I've thought too about getting a larger sub to complement the VTF-1 as well (and possibly putting it at the opposite end of the room (nearfield).

There are actually a couple places the sub would be unobtrusive - but they're both corners and most things I've read have strongly recommended against corner placement (but which is worse? far-field or corner?).

Corner placement is good, because it generally offers more output...
Try front corner placement or nearfield corner placement, and tell us what you find...
At what volume on the receiver are you listening?
Try maximum output mode.(No ports blocked, switch on the 2 ports open configuration)

I'd say -10 on the receiver? Always less than reference.

When I tried maximum output mode it seemed more likely to happen. I know a couple segments that I had problems with had very low (20-25 hz) bass - which is why I thought that it was better to have max output off (and get the lower freqs). In other words, for the same volume, it seemed to be less of a problem with the same segment with max output off.

What exactly does Max Output mode do? I know what unblocking the other port does - but is the sub driven any differently in Max Output? or is there a crossover change?

I just wanted to poke my head in this section as I am a soon to be Hsu owner. I have a pair of ULS-15 on order and can't wait for delivery... I also want to thank Hometheatergeek for allowing me into his home for a superb demo and Pete at Hsu for spending a great deal of time helping me with some issues.

No doubt once I get the subs I will be in here and over on the Hsu form getting everything tuned in.

I believe the recommendation from HSU is not to go beyond the 9 O'clock setting on this sub. 11 O"clock is good only for the STF-1.

9'Oclick would be pretty close to where I've generally kept it - but just surprised that I had problems with it much above that.

Anyone have any insight as to what Max Output actually does/changes within the sub? I would think something... since I believe there is a statement in the manual about it voiding the warranty if the ports are not configured to match the mode..

From my knowledge, if you're running the sub in max output without flipping the switch or having both ports opened, you will risk bottom out the driver and damage it and/or the amp. It is there for a reason. Plugging one port change the acoustic tuning of the enclosure. The switch from One Port Opened or Two Ports Opened is basically a subsonic filter. In order for the sub to gain higher output above 32 Hz (VTF-1 in this case), a higher subsonic filter is necessary in order to prevent the sub from too much excursion (bottom out) as a result of basically change the tuning frequency of the cabinet.

Unless the VTF-1 is used in a larger room (bigger than 3000 cubic feet), one wouldn't benefit much from using the VTF-1 in maximum output mode. In smaller room with the sub in ME (Maximum Extension) while placed in the corner, nearfield placement or not, the additional room gain should allow the VTF-1 to reach beyond 25 Hz extension down to 20 Hz. Believe it or not, but Hsu subs are quite conservatively rated.

In my opinion, depending on your room, I would choose whatever mode that gives you the most linear frequency response possible.

Thank you so much for your response! You answered all of my questions and then some. I knew the switch had to do *something* (I bought a HSU because I know they are respected and well engineered)

I really appreciate it!

Great info. I suspected a subsonic filter of some kind. My concerns about bass with a very heavy emphasis on low 20-25 hz content is what peaked my interest in EQing the sub....... but very cool to understand what happens internally. It's actually amazing how much media out there has a fair amount of content below 20hz!

You're welcome! What size is your room? Like I mention, if you have a medium sized room and corner placement, you should run the VTF-1 in Maximum Extension to take advantage of room gain ensuring lowest extension as possible in you room. In my previous post (now i that i reread it ), I meant to say that you would really only benefits from using Maximum Output in larger room, where room gain is less noticeable and additional headroom is needed to prevent the sub from bottom out in order to fill the room. Sorry for the confusion.

The room rectangular - 10' x 20' with a false wall that takes up 2-3feet of the 20'. The ceilings are about 7'.

I still haven't had a chance to move the sub around... Been busy! It's still up front, which I chose for appearance (WAF?)... not for acoustics.. I have a feeling I'll see a big improvement once I get it moved. That and I'll actually have easy access to the gain knob... Right now since it's behind the false wall (screen & GOM) - I have to move the GOM covered frame to get to the sub. Quite annoying.

Yep. As skool said, it changes where the subsonic filter is applied to prevent damage to the driver...

Ouch.You hear it loud...
So maybe 91/2-10 o'clock is the starting point for you...
Anyway the way to know is with an SPL meter, if you want to calibrate it near flat it is.

I've only heard the noise 5-6 times before. I don't want to make it sound like I'm abusing it! I knew that it "wasn't a good thing" (tm).

Will have to move it around and calibrate it again.

Thanks for everyones response.

The 9 O'clock recommended setting has to do with the subs amplifier (gain). There is a discussion on this point in the HSU forum. Go read the threads in that forum, which is separate and distinct form the AVS forum.

I'm there... Thanks!

Have you tried either front right/left corner or rear right/left corner? I don't see why you need to hide the sub. Does it looks out of place with the rest of your system? Try running it in ME mode and test a couple of movies to see how does it performs. With that room size, there's no reason you would bottom out the VTF-1 once calibrated correctly.

If you're a basshead like I used to be, you may have a hard time listening to VTF-1 or other Hsu subs. Hsu subs are designed for tight, accurate sound with flat frequency response. Once calibrated, only when the source has plenty of bass, then you will hear plenty of bass. Otherwise, you will hear bass as it was recorded. Try to adjust yourself not expecting too much bass all the time. That's one problem many people having a hard time adjusting to. I was one of those people.

I have actually tried left/front and right/front.. but not rears.. There isn't really a place in the rear for it. On one corner there is a landing for the steps and on the other corner it's close to the rack o'equipment. It's not that I want to hide it because it's ugly.. I was just trying to keep all everything hidden to make it look cleaner. It's sort of a rec room - so need to move things around a little bit. Someday I'll have my dedicated room!

I think I understand what you mean though about tight accurate sound - I've been *really* happy with how the sub sounds. It's just some of the infrequent THUMPs that certain scenes have (couple parts in The Incredibles, Transformers, etc) - that seem to just be a little too much for the sub.

I need to start by moving the sub to a better place and recalibrating before I say anything else! Been busy installing new toys in a MA rack. My guess is that it's in the worst possible place now and I've been fidgeting with the gain to make up for that fact too much.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the sub sounded better (simply) with my new Onkyo 886 and some good sub cable (rather than some old 50' run of stereo cable that I used for a while). I didn't trust my older Denon 1803 100% since it's showing its age.

OK.. moved sub and I'm happier - but still feel like the sub just can't handle content that it should be able to.

It's set at 9 O'clock. Preamp volume was set at -20db. It was on Max output mode (2 ports open). Was listening to portions of Iron Man. During portions of it... it just sounded bad (bottoming out??? I don't know). Preamp crossover is set at 80 hz.

Should I contact HSU support?

I just feel like it should be able to keep up with those settings and it's not (and I don't think its ever been able to -- I've always just turned it down to 7-8 o clock.