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***Official HSU owners/support thread!*** - Page 165

post #4921 of 5953
3/18/12 at 1:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_hsu View Post

Is the door to the bedroom closed? What made you move the couch forward? I think if you have the couch where you had it in the posted photos with enough space behind to put the 15H there, you can get better deep bass with the upper bass punch! I am not too familiar with the SMS. Can you print out response curves from it's software? Do what I suggested above - put the sub at your listening position (old and new listening positions), run the responses with the door to the bedroom open and closed. Post all the curves and we will see which combination is best. If you have the SMS, I will pick the position that gives the highest output in the low bass while not having any terrible dip in the rest of the bass. You don't need to aim for a smoother response - the SMS will take care of that.

I moved the couch because it gives me a better surround imaging. I had a little more bass before, when the couch was about 3' from the wall, but it sounded less melodic and a bit more boomy.

I'll do what you ask and send you the graph pics as soon as I get home

EDIT: I could not thank you enough for all the time you are spending on this forum helping us. You are a real soldier! MANY THANKS!
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post #4922 of 5953
3/18/12 at 1:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsgrise View Post

I moved the couch because it gives me a better surround imaging. I had a little more bass before, when the couch was about 3' from the wall, but it sounded less melodic and a bit more boomy.

I'll do what you ask and send you the graph pics as soon as I get home

EDIT: I could not thank you enough for all the time you are spending on this forum helping us. You are a real soldier! MANY THANKS!

Sounds good! Don't work so hard on a Sunday! What company makes their employee work like a slave on a Sunday???

If the SMS smooths out the subwoofer response, why would the sub sound less smooth or less melodic or more boomy in one location versus another? Maybe the main speaker response at the various LP is affecting this? Did you have the Yamaha re-equalize the main speakers when you move the LP? If you can, measure the frequency response of the main speakers at the current LP and the previous LP.

The main speakers are crossed over at 80 Hz, correct? Make sure all speakers are crossed over at 80 Hz. If the main speakers are set to large, you will get strange interactions and because the SMS only works on the subwoofer. If the SMS gets the subwoofer to be flat, any bass from the main speakers will mess it all up.
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post #4923 of 5953
3/18/12 at 3:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsgrise View Post


EDIT: I could not thank you enough for all the time you are spending on this forum helping us. You are a real soldier! MANY THANKS!

You are most welcome!
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post #4924 of 5953
3/18/12 at 8:05pm
I love my VTF 3.3 with turbo.. sounds absolutely amazing with music, kick drums and toms never sounded so full of impact and resonance
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post #4925 of 5953
3/18/12 at 8:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by intoflatlines View Post

I love my VTF 3.3 with turbo.. sounds absolutely amazing with music, kick drums and toms never sounded so full of impact and resonance

Nice!
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post #4926 of 5953
3/19/12 at 9:43am
I would like to say that Dr Hsu has been helping me with placement the last few days. I'm doing the REW graphing and the heavy work moving my subs around but he's been made a lot of decent suggestions and taking time to explain sub 101 stuff to me. This is after i've owned my subs for over a year.

Seriously, thats some kind of support.

Jim
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post #4927 of 5953
3/19/12 at 9:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sputter1 View Post

I would like to say that Dr Hsu has been helping me with placement the last few days. I'm doing the REW graphing and the heavy work moving my subs around but he's been made a lot of decent suggestions and taking time to explain sub 101 stuff to me. This is after i've owned my subs for over a year.

Seriously, thats some kind of support.

Jim

Indeed...it is very impressive. I am the same from the HSU thread as well, just my real name here.
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post #4928 of 5953
3/19/12 at 9:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sputter1 View Post

I would like to say that Dr Hsu has been helping me with placement the last few days. I'm doing the REW graphing and the heavy work moving my subs around but he's been made a lot of decent suggestions and taking time to explain sub 101 stuff to me. This is after i've owned my subs for over a year.

Seriously, thats some kind of support.

Jim

I agree HSU and Oppo have support second to none IMO.
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post #4929 of 5953
3/19/12 at 10:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

Might not be bad if the AVR is at -12 on sub output it all works together that is why you see sub volume (gain) at 9 o'clock and AVR at -3 or 4. for some posters remember you can run it so hot you have no headroom.

I thought 9oclock was the recommended starting position. So, to go up to 11 didn't seem like a big difference (unless the AVR was also at +X db. It just sounded odd to hear that 11oclock is grounds for questioning the subs long term reliability.

I have my AVR set at +0db, with the sub set betweem 9 and 10.5 (depending on what I'm listening to) which is why I was asking. I thought 9oclock was the recommended starting position, give or take a little. So, hearing Dr. Hsu say what he said makes me wonder what exactly is pushing the sub...(?).

I will say this: I have one of the larger rooms being discussed here. It's 15' x 30' x 8' with a huge ~10' opening to the front door/stairway opposite the sub location. I don't get that thump in your chest intensity (the sub is about 8' from LP), but I do get a lot of very impressive bass.

I don't typically go above -10db on the AVR volume. So, I wonder...how much headroom did I have? Is it possible to put #'s on the recommended limits of this sub based on volume settings? For example, is this acceptable for long term reliability?

Sub Level @ 9oclock
AVR Sub Gain +0db
AVR Volume 0db

If so, what about this?

Sub Level @ 11oclock
AVR Sub Gain +0db
AVR Volume 0db

I guess only Dr. Hsu can say...but, I wonder if there are tolerance levels appropriate to be mentioned for everyday use, or occasional use, or for rare use, etc.

Just trying to learn more for my own peace of mind.
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post #4930 of 5953
3/19/12 at 10:37am
Considering that your receiver's 0 is not necessarily mine or others, and that you have to take into consideration your signal level as well..I think variables are too many to make a call but we shall see what the Doctor says.
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post #4931 of 5953
3/19/12 at 10:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

I agree HSU and Oppo have support second to none IMO.

Can't tell for Oppo but I only have A+ comments on every levels of HSU Research.
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post #4932 of 5953
3/19/12 at 10:54am
As Luis pointed out different output levels for different AVR's if I were to run my sub
out at 0 and 9 o'clock on the sub it would be way to much as it is at -5 on my AVR
sub out to the VTF15H gain level of 8:30 is level matched and great for my room.
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post #4933 of 5953
3/19/12 at 11:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

As Luis pointed out different output levels for different AVR's if I were to run my sub
out at 0 and 9 o'clock on the sub it would be way to much as it is at -5 on my AVR
sub out to the VTF15H gain level of 8:30 is level matched and great for my room.

It all depends on the room volume, dimensions, construction, layout, etc.
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post #4934 of 5953
3/19/12 at 11:23am
Maybe Ive missed the boat on something, but...

No matter what the receiver, and no matter what program is used to calibrate (i.e. YPAO, MCACC, etc), isnt the +/- settings what the receiver adjusts to make them 75db (I think thats considered "reference"?) levels at the listening position?
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post #4935 of 5953
3/19/12 at 11:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackangst View Post

Maybe Ive missed the boat on something, but...

No matter what the receiver, and no matter what program is used to calibrate (i.e. YPAO, MCACC, etc), isnt the +/- settings what the receiver adjusts to make them 75db (I think thats considered "reference"?) levels at the listening position?

Actually at -0dB it's suppose to be 85dB and 75dB at -10dB. 85dB is considered "reference" with 20dB of headrooms for all channels except for the LFE (.1 or .2) that has 30dB of headroom.
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post #4936 of 5953
3/19/12 at 12:12pm
Ok, so that makes sense. Given the three parameters above, there's still the unknown in the source material. I understand Dr. Hsu knows this equipment better than us (certainly me!), and has the most experience with it...But, what exactly is "pushing" this sub?

Edit: That's a rhetorical question (unless someone knows the answer) :P
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post #4937 of 5953
3/19/12 at 2:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by swgod98 View Post

I thought 9oclock was the recommended starting position. So, to go up to 11 didn't seem like a big difference (unless the AVR was also at +X db. It just sounded odd to hear that 11oclock is grounds for questioning the subs long term reliability.

I have my AVR set at +0db, with the sub set betweem 9 and 10.5 (depending on what I'm listening to) which is why I was asking. I thought 9oclock was the recommended starting position, give or take a little. So, hearing Dr. Hsu say what he said makes me wonder what exactly is pushing the sub...(?).

I will say this: I have one of the larger rooms being discussed here. It's 15' x 30' x 8' with a huge ~10' opening to the front door/stairway opposite the sub location. I don't get that thump in your chest intensity (the sub is about 8' from LP), but I do get a lot of very impressive bass.

I don't typically go above -10db on the AVR volume. So, I wonder...how much headroom did I have? Is it possible to put #'s on the recommended limits of this sub based on volume settings? For example, is this acceptable for long term reliability?

Sub Level @ 9oclock
AVR Sub Gain +0db
AVR Volume 0db

If so, what about this?

Sub Level @ 11oclock
AVR Sub Gain +0db
AVR Volume 0db

I guess only Dr. Hsu can say...but, I wonder if there are tolerance levels appropriate to be mentioned for everyday use, or occasional use, or for rare use, etc.

Just trying to learn more for my own peace of mind.

Can you post a detailed drawing of your room and adjoining rooms as well? Indicate where the sub is currently placed and where you sit in that space.

Do you have any means of measuring the frequency response and SPL? Can you tell us what is the peak SPL reading at your chair when you are cranking it hard?

The 15H is specifically designed to withstand a lot of overdriving. So, you can be assured that if you are driving the 15H too hard, there are not many if any subs out there that will be able to be played that hard and has better long term reliability.

What we hope to do is to find out how to get the most SPL at your listening chair from the 15H. If we can improve the output at your LP by 6 - 12 dB, the long term reliability of your sub goes up quite a bit, plus you get lower distortion and more headroom at the same time. I succeed to do that for a few of you on these forums recently. I hope I can help you do that as well. Of course, not everyone is that lucky... In that case, consider adding a second one later...
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post #4938 of 5953
3/19/12 at 2:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by swgod98 View Post

Ok, so that makes sense. Given the three parameters above, there's still the unknown in the source material. I understand Dr. Hsu knows this equipment better than us (certainly me!), and has the most experience with it...But, what exactly is "pushing" this sub?

Edit: That's a rhetorical question (unless someone knows the answer) :P

I guess my idea of 'pushing the sub' is driving it into soft clipping over 10% of the time. Indeed, so much depends on program material too. Tron would drive most subs to the limit even if you don't play it very loudly since it's so overly bass heavy.
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post #4939 of 5953
3/19/12 at 3:07pm
I had posted this when I bought the sub to determine best placement, but decided that location #1 was the best looking position and it sounded just fine. So that's where it is and it is likely going to stay



This picture is not 100% to scale, it is an estimate. The room size is ~ 14x35 (including the kitchen area, which is attached).

What exactly is soft clipping? And what's the difference in output level from 9oclock to 11oclock?

Unfortunately, I don't have a meter that's weighted correctly for bass readings.
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post #4940 of 5953
3/19/12 at 3:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by swgod98 View Post

I had posted this when I bought the sub to determine best placement, but decided that location #1 was the best looking position and it sounded just fine. So that's where it is and it is likely going to stay



This picture is not 100% to scale, it is an estimate. The room size is ~ 14x35 (including the kitchen area, which is attached).

What exactly is soft clipping? And what's the difference in output level from 9oclock to 11oclock?

Unfortunately, I don't have a meter that's weighted correctly for bass readings.

What is the distance from your ear to the TV wall when you sit in the main LP?

The marking at the bottom left labeled 'to front door' - how large is the space there? I assume the front door is not directly on that wall.

Your meter has only A weighting? No C weighting?
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post #4941 of 5953
3/19/12 at 4:59pm
Sorry Dr Hsu but I didn't have time to draw a layout of my room yet... I'll do it as soon as I can. In the meantime, I was wondering how to find out if my VTF-15H is clipping? Any noise or lights?

Thanks!
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post #4942 of 5953
3/19/12 at 5:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsgrise View Post

Sorry Dr Hsu but I didn't have time to draw a layout of my room yet... I'll do it as soon as I can. In the meantime, I was wondering how to find out if my VTF-15H is clipping? Any noise or lights?

Thanks!

Nope. Also, we designed the soft clipping circuit to work very well so it's hard to tell that it's being activated. So, don't worry too much. We will maximize it's output at your listening position.
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post #4943 of 5953
3/20/12 at 9:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_hsu View Post

What is the distance from your ear to the TV wall when you sit in the main LP?

The marking at the bottom left labeled 'to front door' - how large is the space there? I assume the front door is not directly on that wall.

Your meter has only A weighting? No C weighting?

TV distance is 10'. Sub distance is 8.5'.

The area just outside the living room (labeled "to front door") is about 10'x10'x20' and connects the front door, a hallway into a room into the front of the house, a bathroom, and the stairway leading up along the top edge of the photo (right to left). This area is actually open to the second floor, which is why it's ~ 20' high.

I have an A weighted meter (cheapo). Don't have the money to invest in a more expensive one at this time.
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post #4944 of 5953
3/20/12 at 10:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by swgod98 View Post

TV distance is 10'. Sub distance is 8.5'.

The area just outside the living room (labeled "to front door") is about 10'x10'x20' and connects the front door, a hallway into a room into the front of the house, a bathroom, and the stairway leading up along the top edge of the photo (right to left). This area is actually open to the second floor, which is why it's ~ 20' high.

I have an A weighted meter (cheapo). Don't have the money to invest in a more expensive one at this time.

Your current sub location should be great. What SPL meter is that? Even the Radio Shack meter has a C weighting! It is worthwhile investing in at least a Radio Shack meter, or get REW. With either one of those (REW preferred), you can get the bass set accurately.
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post #4945 of 5953
3/20/12 at 10:38am
If you are lucky you may find a $15 Radio Shack analog one. I did like two weeks ago.
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post #4946 of 5953
3/20/12 at 12:25pm
If you have an iPhone, download the Logitech UE SPL app, it has C weighting
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post #4947 of 5953
3/20/12 at 2:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahjinoh View Post

If you have an iPhone, download the Logitech UE SPL app, it has C weighting

The only problem is that the iPhone mic as a built in crossover to cut the frequencies below 80Hz. iPhone SPL apps won't work for level matching a sub to mains.
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post #4948 of 5953
3/20/12 at 2:54pm
I could do with $15 for an analog version, but have never seen one available. And I don't have an iPhone...blast!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_hsu View Post

Your current sub location should be great. What SPL meter is that? Even the Radio Shack meter has a C weighting! It is worthwhile investing in at least a Radio Shack meter, or get REW. With either one of those (REW preferred), you can get the bass set accurately.

It does sound good. And that's all I want. I'm not really looking for better sound. At 9oclock, 0db gain, with volume up to -10db (about as loud as I can handle), it sounds great. I put it at 10.5oclock when I want to break windows.

I was just wondering what exactly is "pushing" the sub...because based on the settings I use, I don't think I'm pushing it. Based on the output I get, I think it's going to break every time
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post #4949 of 5953
3/20/12 at 3:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsgrise View Post

The only problem is that the iPhone mic as a built in crossover to cut the frequencies below 80Hz. iPhone SPL apps won't work for level matching a sub to mains.

I don't understand why Apple is so stupid as to have a low pass filter on the mic input! Don't they know their customers LOVE bass? And they want to use their iPhones to do all those acoustic measurements??
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post #4950 of 5953
3/21/12 at 12:34am
Dr.Hsu,I bought a used vtf3ho/turbo about five months ago.I am so very impressed with its performance with movies and music.it can be subtle or it can be a beast but it is always impressive.thank you for such a fine product.
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