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***Official HSU owners/support thread!*** - Page 183

post #5461 of 6213
I scrolled thru your manual on Pioneers site and some of their older receivers and regular VSX units require a patch cord/rca plugged in your monitor out of your receiver then ran to a rca input on your tv/flat screen. According to your manual, it is an older version of the on screen guide and can become very confusing. Your manual is your guide but once your on screen guide is visible its more fun and provides more of a learning exercise to maximize all available options. I cannot stress the huge improvement the standing wave measurements and being able to really see what our room issues are. This is gold and people pay gobs of money to have a pro come in and provide what our receivers already provide. Being able to really shape our time alignment is so powerful. Time constant options and available 3D viewing via PC will really enable you to do everything possible with placement of subs, towers, and surrounds to deal with first the most important...acoustics. I enjoy doing everything I can physically to make the electronic even that much better. I see myself purchasing 2 VTF 15H in the future. Truth in Engineering...


Brian in Bakersfield...
post #5462 of 6213
Thank you Brian for researching my problem. I posted earlier that I did eventually get the OSD to come up on my tv through the HDMI connection. I had to change the input on the tv and it popped up. You seem to have a wealth of knowledge about all the different options that our receivers offer to fine tune the sound. When my sub comes on Wednesday, would you be willing to walk me through the MCAAC setup so I can achieve the best sound?
post #5463 of 6213
Sure! I will be down in Orange County wed and thurs next week so it may take me some time to respond. I will be in both Dr. Hsu's area and also Ascend Acoustics, I will be providing my hearing health services in 2 Optometry offices so I will be getting updated on some software I will be using. I will scroll thu this thread and check out past posts to.

Brian in Bakersfield...
post #5464 of 6213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hspecialist View Post

Sure! I will be down in Orange County wed and thurs next week so it may take me some time to respond. I will be in both Dr. Hsu's area and also Ascend Acoustics, I will be providing my hearing health services in 2 Optometry offices so I will be getting updated on some software I will be using. I will scroll thu this thread and check out past posts to.
Brian in Bakersfield...

What settings did you use on the sub and receiver when you ran MCAAC?
post #5465 of 6213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hspecialist View Post

Yes, Advanced MCACC and THX Select 2 processing and certification. You friend have a solid receiver. Mine does not have the THX processing, sucks for me!
With your on screen menus you should access the pro EQ thru the manual selection. When it comes to the correction point it should ask if you will be measuring multi point standing waves, select yes with the last point being your listening position. This is completely different from the multi point measures if you sit in multiple seats which in my case allows up to 6 different presets. The multi point measurement is by far one of the greatest things within a room correction. You will need to choose your processing delay as well and mine has the following choices to process: 0-20ms, 20-40ms, 30-50ms, 50-80ms, 80-120ms. I can suggest the 20-40ms for extreme resolution and clarity with a listening distance of the mains being 12 feet or so and subs being 14 feet to main listening position. The 30-50ms is also sufficient for said listening distance. Advanced MCACC allows a reverb measurement seperately which really is the same as the multi standing wave measures. With the reverb measure also multi point you will see on screen the response and if you download the program from Pioneer site you can save your results to flash drive and view your results with every bit of acoustical information for PC viewing in 3D or 2D. All this is exactly why I chose a Elite receiver, so much to explore!
Brian in Bakersfield...
Dr. Hsu, check me out on LinkedIn...Brian Handy biggrin.gif

I see that you now work for Ascend!
post #5466 of 6213
Dr. Hsu, where would be the best spot for my new sub? Here is a pic of my room setup:

room.png
post #5467 of 6213
That is a tough space. Can you move your chair facing the TV directly back a bit more? Right now you are sitting in the middle of the length of the room where you have the least bass.

I would place the sub in the front right corner.
post #5468 of 6213
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_hsu View Post

That is a tough space. Can you move your chair facing the TV directly back a bit more? Right now you are sitting in the middle of the length of the room where you have the least bass.
I would place the sub in the front right corner.

The chair next to the staircase is the chair I always sit in. Is that the one you want moved back? I can definitely move it back. How should I place the sub in the right corner? Caddy corner?
post #5469 of 6213
Dr. Hsu, awaiting official announcement and thank you for viewing, its a honor sir! This year was my 10 year anniv. of earning my Ph.D in Engineering so, its a honor sir.

Biglen, i have the first 3 presets as full auto with all 3 available target responses using the THX suggested 80hz even with capable mains. I then copied all said programs to last of the presets and ran the pro EQ with the 3 standing wave measures for each target response still using the 80hz crossover setting. Now, I plugged my tower ports (tuned to low C) and now my standing wave issues are higher in frequency so I left the said 80hz. I may plug one of the subs ports (dual sub setup) on each enclosure to detune them now that my standing waves are higher in freq and very different now that I plugged my tower ports. Any movement of any of the speakers used with Advanced MCACC really requires running full auto again and I suggest this anytime things are moved, then running the Pro EQ. I am learning that the Pro EQ side of things makes decisions purely based on what the original full auto has recorded and measured. Very interesting and explains the huge WOW factor when one reruns full auto again then progresses to the Expert or Pro side of the correction program when one gets a new sub per se. I am truly intrigued by the standing wave measures and its reasoning and decision making. I am also exploring crossover points and true reference level listening, 85db rms with 20db headroom.

Brian in Bakersfield...
post #5470 of 6213
Quote:
Originally Posted by biglen View Post

The chair next to the staircase is the chair I always sit in. Is that the one you want moved back? I can definitely move it back. How should I place the sub in the right corner? Caddy corner?

What are the dimensions of your room? I would sit against the back wall if that is practical. If that is too far from the TV, I would sit around 2/3 of the way back.

Which sub are you getting or got? Subs are pretty much omnidirectional, so angle it any way you like for aesthetics.
post #5471 of 6213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hspecialist View Post

Dr. Hsu, awaiting official announcement and thank you for viewing, its a honor sir! This year was my 10 year anniv. of earning my Ph.D in Engineering so, its a honor sir.
Biglen, i have the first 3 presets as full auto with all 3 available target responses using the THX suggested 80hz even with capable mains. I then copied all said programs to last of the presets and ran the pro EQ with the 3 standing wave measures for each target response still using the 80hz crossover setting. Now, I plugged my tower ports (tuned to low C) and now my standing wave issues are higher in frequency so I left the said 80hz. I may plug one of the subs ports (dual sub setup) on each enclosure to detune them now that my standing waves are higher in freq and very different now that I plugged my tower ports. Any movement of any of the speakers used with Advanced MCACC really requires running full auto again and I suggest this anytime things are moved, then running the Pro EQ. I am learning that the Pro EQ side of things makes decisions purely based on what the original full auto has recorded and measured. Very interesting and explains the huge WOW factor when one reruns full auto again then progresses to the Expert or Pro side of the correction program when one gets a new sub per se. I am truly intrigued by the standing wave measures and its reasoning and decision making. I am also exploring crossover points and true reference level listening, 85db rms with 20db headroom.
Brian in Bakersfield...

What are the settings on the actual sub?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_hsu View Post

What are the dimensions of your room? I would sit against the back wall if that is practical. If that is too far from the TV, I would sit around 2/3 of the way back.
Which sub are you getting or got? Subs are pretty much omnidirectional, so angle it any way you like for aesthetics.

Here is a pic showing the dimensions:

Snap2-11.png
post #5472 of 6213
Nice drawing! Is this your 'man cave' in the basement? Given the room is decently deep, I would put your chair so the back of the chair is 18" - 24" off the back wall and put the sub behind the chair. Place it sideways so it's only 15" deep. Line the woofer directly behind your head. I would set it to two ports open, EQ2, Q=0.3.
post #5473 of 6213
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_hsu View Post

Nice drawing! Is this your 'man cave' in the basement? Given the room is decently deep, I would put your chair so the back of the chair is 18" - 24" off the back wall and put the sub behind the chair. Place it sideways so it's only 15" deep. Line the woofer directly behind your head. I would set it to two ports open, EQ2, Q=0.3.

Hahahahaha, it IS my man cave in the basement. I have everything I need down here. I have a fridge filled with beer, a bathroom, a killer sound system, and a 60" LCD. What more could a man want? I forgot to mention I ordered the VTF-2 MK4 and it will be here Wednesday. I appreciate your suggestion about moving the chair further back, but the chair is about 9.5ft from the screen and I feel very comfortable from that viewing distance. I thought the rule of thumb with viewing distance was double the screen size ? That would be 10ft for my 60" and I'm pretty much there. Regarding the sub settings, are those what I use for MCAAC, or after I run MCAAC? I bought the sub because it goes down to 18hz, so will those settings get me there?
post #5474 of 6213
Because i'm thinking Dr. Hsu suggests the mentioned settings based on room dimensions and or architecture of the physical room, my vote would be set your settings physically on the sub then run your MCACC. I would just be so curious what Advanced MCACC picks up on the standing waves.

My opinion cool.gif

Brian in Bakersfield...
post #5475 of 6213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hspecialist View Post

Because i'm thinking Dr. Hsu suggests the mentioned settings based on room dimensions and or architecture of the physical room, my vote would be set your settings physically on the sub then run your MCACC. I would just be so curious what Advanced MCACC picks up on the standing waves.
My opinion cool.gif
Brian in Bakersfield...

Brian, I'm getting confused when you mention "Advanced" MCACC. Is that different from the regular MCACC that I run?
post #5476 of 6213
Your Elite receiver is equiped with Advanced MCACC. There are going to be 3 levels of room correction. 1. Full auto. 2. Expert. 3. Pro EQ

You will need to run the full auto correction, copy that into another preset, then run Expert if you want to keep it simple, or run the multi point standing wave/aco pro EQ. Anytime enclosures are moved or new purchases are included the full auto needs to be rerun to recognize the distance, down to .5", and all other dimensions.

You have a awesome receiver and I love my Elite to! Your sub action will be so solid! Now, it may be necessary to talk about a second one to smooth the response acoustically biggrin.gif
post #5477 of 6213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hspecialist View Post

Your Elite receiver is equiped with Advanced MCACC. There are going to be 3 levels of room correction. 1. Full auto. 2. Expert. 3. Pro EQ
You will need to run the full auto correction, copy that into another preset, then run Expert if you want to keep it simple, or run the multi point standing wave/aco pro EQ. Anytime enclosures are moved or new purchases are included the full auto needs to be rerun to recognize the distance, down to .5", and all other dimensions.
You have a awesome receiver and I love my Elite to! Your sub action will be so solid! Now, it may be necessary to talk about a second one to smooth the response acoustically biggrin.gif

Can you explain what it is meant by "smooth bass response"? Thank you!
post #5478 of 6213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hspecialist View Post

Your Elite receiver is equiped with Advanced MCACC. There are going to be 3 levels of room correction. 1. Full auto. 2. Expert. 3. Pro EQ
You will need to run the full auto correction, copy that into another preset, then run Expert if you want to keep it simple, or run the multi point standing wave/aco pro EQ. Anytime enclosures are moved or new purchases are included the full auto needs to be rerun to recognize the distance, down to .5", and all other dimensions.
You have a awesome receiver and I love my Elite to! Your sub action will be so solid! Now, it may be necessary to talk about a second one to smooth the response acoustically biggrin.gif

Brian, here are my MCACC options:

photo8.jpg


photo7.jpg


photo5.jpg


photo6.jpg
post #5479 of 6213
Good, shoot a pic of what your screen looks like when you select the advanced eq on the reverb screen. At a listening distance of 10 feet at your main spot, you may want to choose the 20-40ms option if it gives it to you. 30-50ms at a 10 ft distance may "lag" with a loss of detail and resolution.

You will want to measure all three spots once your in the pro eq. Based on your drawing, use one for the other chair since it would be easy to prop the mic, the other on the other side of your listening position, and of course at your listening spot. Make sure you account for compressed cushions as if you were sitting when you place the measurement mic. Now i'm going off what your manual says and it would be easier in person of course. It is really powerful and can really make a difference once you start playing with the multi wave measures, and different measuring locations.
post #5480 of 6213
manual MCACC is access to the Expert on your first screen, sorry was feeding my face with the wifey when i was writing. The Expert should provide you the option of setting up all 3 target curves from a single mic location, front align which sets your rears to the matching response of your fronts with no EQ to your mains, symmetry which phase aligns the left and right channels, and all channel adjust or flat.
post #5481 of 6213
Quote:
Originally Posted by biglen View Post

Hahahahaha, it IS my man cave in the basement. I have everything I need down here. I have a fridge filled with beer, a bathroom, a killer sound system, and a 60" LCD. What more could a man want? I forgot to mention I ordered the VTF-2 MK4 and it will be here Wednesday. I appreciate your suggestion about moving the chair further back, but the chair is about 9.5ft from the screen and I feel very comfortable from that viewing distance. I thought the rule of thumb with viewing distance was double the screen size ? That would be 10ft for my 60" and I'm pretty much there. Regarding the sub settings, are those what I use for MCAAC, or after I run MCAAC? I bought the sub because it goes down to 18hz, so will those settings get me there?

Unfortunate that it's usually the case that the best distance for video is where the bass is the weakest. At 9.5 ft, you are almost in the middle of your room where you have the least amount of bass. Luckily for you, there may be hope:

Now, since this is your man cave, is it possible to move the TV to the middle of the room and you sit near the end next to the refrigerator? biggrin.gif That way you get the perfect viewing distance and also sit where bass is strongest. Using MCAAC to then equalize the response flat will be great. Sitting in the middle where bass is weakest and using MCAAC to equalize the sub flat will make the system run out of headroom fast. You can also just lean over and get your beer! tongue.gif
post #5482 of 6213
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_hsu View Post

Unfortunate that it's usually the case that the best distance for video is where the bass is the weakest. At 9.5 ft, you are almost in the middle of your room where you have the least amount of bass. Luckily for you, there may be hope:
Now, since this is your man cave, is it possible to move the TV to the middle of the room and you sit near the end next to the refrigerator? biggrin.gif That way you get the perfect viewing distance and also sit where bass is strongest. Using MCAAC to then equalize the response flat will be great. Sitting in the middle where bass is weakest and using MCAAC to equalize the sub flat will make the system run out of headroom fast. You can also just lean over and get your beer! tongue.gif

If you look at my pic of the room, the TV is actually set back in that recessed area(it was an old closet that I removed the sliding doors). The TV and two front tower speakers fit perfectly in there so it's not really a good idea to pull all of that out of that spot.
post #5483 of 6213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hspecialist View Post

Good, shoot a pic of what your screen looks like when you select the advanced eq on the reverb screen. At a listening distance of 10 feet at your main spot, you may want to choose the 20-40ms option if it gives it to you. 30-50ms at a 10 ft distance may "lag" with a loss of detail and resolution.
You will want to measure all three spots once your in the pro eq. Based on your drawing, use one for the other chair since it would be easy to prop the mic, the other on the other side of your listening position, and of course at your listening spot. Make sure you account for compressed cushions as if you were sitting when you place the measurement mic. Now i'm going off what your manual says and it would be easier in person of course. It is really powerful and can really make a difference once you start playing with the multi wave measures, and different measuring locations.

Do you want those pics now, or after I get the new sub on Wednesday? Here's what it looks like now:

photo9.jpg
Edited by biglen - 7/30/12 at 8:25pm
post #5484 of 6213
Quote:
Originally Posted by biglen View Post

If you look at my pic of the room, the TV is actually set back in that recessed area(it was an old closet that I removed the sliding doors). The TV and two front tower speakers fit perfectly in there so it's not really a good idea to pull all of that out of that spot.

Oh well. You will have up to 10 dB less bass that way... Depending on how much bass you are looking for, you may need a second VTF-2 MK4.
post #5485 of 6213
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_hsu View Post

Oh well. You will have up to 10 dB less bass that way... Depending on how much bass you are looking for, you may need a second VTF-2 MK4.

Hey Doc, I forgot to put a corner in my original drawing. Behind my recliner, there is a corner wall that sticks out 2' 1". How about I put the sub in that corner facing towards the wall that the computer desk is against? I put the sub in the pic, it's the black box behind the chair.


basement-1.png
Edited by biglen - 8/1/12 at 8:22pm
post #5486 of 6213
That should be fine.
post #5487 of 6213
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_hsu View Post

That should be fine.

Will I still lose 10dB in that corner?
post #5488 of 6213
Losing 10 dB (roughly) at the standing wave frequency (31 Hz for an 18 ft length) is because you are sitting in the middle of the length of the room. Does not change too much based on where the sub is placed.
post #5489 of 6213
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_hsu View Post

Losing 10 dB (roughly) at the standing wave frequency (31 Hz for an 18 ft length) is because you are sitting in the middle of the length of the room. Does not change too much based on where the sub is placed.

So if I move my recliner back closer to the sub in the corner behind me, it will sound better?
post #5490 of 6213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hspecialist View Post

Sure! I will be down in Orange County wed and thurs next week so it may take me some time to respond. I will be in both Dr. Hsu's area and also Ascend Acoustics, I will be providing my hearing health services in 2 Optometry offices so I will be getting updated on some software I will be using. I will scroll thu this thread and check out past posts to.
Brian in Bakersfield...

Hey Brian, my sub came today and I ran Auto MCACC. Can I post some shots of the results and tell me what you think?
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