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***Official HSU owners/support thread!*** - Page 191

post #5701 of 6214
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhskyTangoFoxtrt View Post

I think Dr. Hsu answered your question. It is his recommendation, as designer of your subwoofer, to leave it 'ON' since it does not consume any additional power or affect the reliability of the amp. Using a splitter is a workaround that is just boosting the gain.
What are the levels in your AVR?
Where is your crossover?
Where is the LPF of LFE?


Ok now I have a question. I don't use a splitter just a straight digital coax cable from sub to avr. My question is do I need to leave sub ON, or Auto or does it matter in my case?
post #5702 of 6214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Kamp View Post

Better yet what sub is he using? Last I saw he wasn't currently using an HSU sub, probably why he didn't like the answer.
Shady has it right, adding a splitter will up the input. It would also work to lower the gain on the sub, and increase the receiver out level.
A splitter is a few bucks, Bond could always try if not getting the answer he wants.
You are indeed correct. Partly. I just returned an stf2 and am currently using a Klipsch RW-12d. I didnt say that I didn't like the answer. I said that it did not answer the question. I asked twice if a splitter would increase the signal and cause the sub to come on at a lower volume. I did not ask if it was ok to leave the sub on or how much power it used in "standby" mode. My question has been asked by other people in other threads and there have been many different answers. I thought perhaps the good Dr. could provide a definitive answer. I just received a Mediabridges splitter from Amazon. For anyone else wondering, it does indeed provide more output from the sub. I turned the receiver from +2 to 0 and the sub from 0 to -2. This seems to provide roughly the same output. Thanks to all for the responses.
post #5703 of 6214
Quote:
Originally Posted by asere View Post

Ok now I have a question. I don't use a splitter just a straight digital coax cable from sub to avr. My question is do I need to leave sub ON, or Auto or does it matter in my case?
You can do either one. If you have been happy with auto then there is no reason to change.
post #5704 of 6214
The trim is high due to the gain on the sub. You need to reduce it.

Are you using Dynamic EQ?
post #5705 of 6214
Quote:
Originally Posted by asere View Post

Ok now I have a question. I don't use a splitter just a straight digital coax cable from sub to avr. My question is do I need to leave sub ON, or Auto or does it matter in my case?

It doesn't matter. You can leave it on if you like.
post #5706 of 6214
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhskyTangoFoxtrt View Post

I think Dr. Hsu answered your question. It is his recommendation, as designer of your subwoofer, to leave it 'ON' since it does not consume any additional power or affect the reliability of the amp. Using a splitter is a workaround that is just boosting the gain.
What are the levels in your AVR?
Where is your crossover?
Where is the LPF of LFE?
He said it does not consume any more power. He did not say that it does not affect the reliability of the amp. If both of those were the case then why even have an "auto" option? Just get rid of that and either have it off or on.
post #5707 of 6214
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhskyTangoFoxtrt View Post

The trim is high due to the gain on the sub. You need to reduce it.
Are you using Dynamic EQ?
How do you figure? I am at 0 on the receiver and -1 now on sub. No reason to do a recalibration just because I added a splitter.
post #5708 of 6214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

You are indeed correct. Partly. I just returned an stf2 and am currently using a Klipsch RW-12d. I didnt say that I didn't like the answer. I said that it did not answer the question. I asked twice if a splitter would increase the signal and cause the sub to come on at a lower volume. I did not ask if it was ok to leave the sub on or how much power it used in "standby" mode. My question has been asked by other people in other threads and there have been many different answers. I thought perhaps the good Dr. could provide a definitive answer. I just received a Mediabridges splitter from Amazon. For anyone else wondering, it does indeed provide more output from the sub. I turned the receiver from +2 to 0 and the sub from 0 to -2. This seems to provide roughly the same output. Thanks to all for the responses.

It does not provide more output from the sub. The subs max output is the same. What the splitter does is increase the input to the sub, just like turning up the receiver out level. Either way you have to turn down the gain on the sub as I stated before. Roughly the same output is not the same output. Glad it worked out for you.

The definitive answer has been answered several times in many different threads over the years. Google search "will rca splitter increase subwoofer level"

Here is an avs one

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1361317/is-there-any-difference-between-a-single-rca-sub-in-and-a-l-r-rca-sub-in
Edited by Luke Kamp - 11/29/12 at 11:37am
post #5709 of 6214
I'm missing it, but I don't see what the frequency response is, for the VTF-3 MK4? It looks close to the MBM-12 MK2, which does 50 - 150 Hz with similar power specs.
post #5710 of 6214
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhskyTangoFoxtrt View Post

The trim is high due to the gain on the sub. You need to reduce it.
Are you using Dynamic EQ?

Sorry. This was not directed in your direction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

He said it does not consume any more power. He did not say that it does not affect the reliability of the amp. If both of those were the case then why even have an "auto" option? Just get rid of that and either have it off or on.

True. He did say it here though:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/808485/official-hsu-owners-support-thread/2910#post_18642341

This is directly from the manual under troubleshooting:

"...turn the subwoofer ON/AUTO/OFF switch to the ON position. It does not use any more power and does not affect reliability."

When I read the above, it struck me odd that it even has an AUTO if that is the case, so I emailed Dr. Hsu about it.


Here is the wording of my Question and his answer:

Q:
"I noticed in the troubleshooting section that if you set the subwoofer to “ON” rather than “AUTO” it does not use any more power and does not affect reliability. So my question is, if that is true, is there any advantage at all to using the “AUTO” setting?"

A:
Poh S Hsu: "I personally would simply set it to 'on'. Some customers feel comforted to have an auto mode, so we provided one."



As mentioned, it's also in the Owners Manual of the sub you purchased.
Edited by WhskyTangoFoxtrt - 11/29/12 at 11:40am
post #5711 of 6214
Quote:
Originally Posted by petaylor View Post

I'm missing it, but I don't see what the frequency response is, for the VTF-3 MK4? It looks close to the MBM-12 MK2, which does 50 - 150 Hz with similar power specs.

It's on the product page:

16 Hz Ported, 22 Hz Ported or Sealed

The MBM-12 is a mid-bass module and like you discovered, will reproduce 50-150 HZ.
post #5712 of 6214
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeeArSix View Post

I recently got a VTF2-MK4 after my Epik Sentinel crapped out. I use my home theater for both music and movies. I use the front 2 speakers and sub for 2.1 channel listening through an Emotiva USP-1 pre-amp and use the home theater bypass feature on it to also use the front speakers for movies.

I set the gain on the sub to about 12 o'clock to get the bass level to my liking for listening to music. The problem is that when I did an Audyssey calibration (onkyo 707), It gave me a -15db trim level for the sub. I don't want to have to adjust the gain on the sub each time I switch from music listening to movies, so I looked into possible solutions and read up on attenuators to reduce the subwoofer signal level coming from the AVR.

1. Will a line level attenuator work on the sub output?
2. If so, will it in any way damage the sub?
3. If this is safe to use on the sub. I looked up a few on Amazon (links below). Any suggestions on choosing between the 6db or 12 db?

http://www.amazon.com/Harrison-Labs-Line-Level-Attenuator/dp/B0006N41AG
http://www.amazon.com/Harrison-Labs-Line-Level-Attenuator/dp/B0006N41B0/ref=pd_sim_sbs_e_1


And just for reference, the room is 13 x 17ft with openings to the hallway and kitchen.
media_room.pdf 216k .pdf file

-15 means that you sub volume is too high. It’s reducing the sub channel level to compensate. You should turn down the volume on the sub and rerun Audyessy until the level in the AVR is plus or minus 3.

If you like your bass louder for music I would think that raising the level in the AVR would be the best way. Then you can get the level back correctly for movies. If you adjust the volume on the sub it’ll be difficult to get it back to the original calibrated position.
post #5713 of 6214
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeeArSix View Post

I recently got a VTF2-MK4 after my Epik Sentinel crapped out. I use my home theater for both music and movies. I use the front 2 speakers and sub for 2.1 channel listening through an Emotiva USP-1 pre-amp and use the home theater bypass feature on it to also use the front speakers for movies.
I set the gain on the sub to about 12 o'clock to get the bass level to my liking for listening to music. The problem is that when I did an Audyssey calibration (onkyo 707), It gave me a -15db trim level for the sub. I don't want to have to adjust the gain on the sub each time I switch from music listening to movies, so I looked into possible solutions and read up on attenuators to reduce the subwoofer signal level coming from the AVR.
1. Will a line level attenuator work on the sub output?
2. If so, will it in any way damage the sub?
3. If this is safe to use on the sub. I looked up a few on Amazon (links below). Any suggestions on choosing between the 6db or 12 db?
http://www.amazon.com/Harrison-Labs-Line-Level-Attenuator/dp/B0006N41AG
http://www.amazon.com/Harrison-Labs-Line-Level-Attenuator/dp/B0006N41B0/ref=pd_sim_sbs_e_1
And just for reference, the room is 13 x 17ft with openings to the hallway and kitchen.
media_room.pdf 216k .pdf file

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom C View Post

-15 means that you sub volume is too high. It’s reducing the sub channel level to compensate. You should turn down the volume on the sub and rerun Audyessy until the level in the AVR is plus or minus 3.
If you like your bass louder for music I would think that raising the level in the AVR would be the best way. Then you can get the level back correctly for movies. If you adjust the volume on the sub it’ll be difficult to get it back to the original calibrated position.

That's the issue, I don't want to turn the down the volume on the sub. The AVR isn't on when I listen to music, I listen to music through an Emotiva USP-1 pre-amp which doesn't let me adjust the bass level, which is why I have to manually set it on the sub. If I turn down the volume on the sub for movies, then I have to manually turn it up for music.
post #5714 of 6214
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhskyTangoFoxtrt View Post

It's on the product page:
16 Hz Ported, 22 Hz Ported or Sealed
The MBM-12 is a mid-bass module and like you discovered, will reproduce 50-150 HZ.

Super! Thanks!
post #5715 of 6214
Is having the sub gain at 9 o'clock and avr dbs at +/-3 the same as having the gain at 10 o'clock with avr dbs at+/-3 as far as volume goes?
post #5716 of 6214
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhskyTangoFoxtrt View Post

Sorry. This was not directed in your direction.
True. He did say it here though:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/808485/official-hsu-owners-support-thread/2910#post_18642341
This is directly from the manual under troubleshooting:
"...turn the subwoofer ON/AUTO/OFF switch to the ON position. It does not use any more power and does not affect reliability."
When I read the above, it struck me odd that it even has an AUTO if that is the case, so I emailed Dr. Hsu about it.
Here is the wording of my Question and his answer:
Q:
"I noticed in the troubleshooting section that if you set the subwoofer to “ON” rather than “AUTO” it does not use any more power and does not affect reliability. So my question is, if that is true, is there any advantage at all to using the “AUTO” setting?"
A:
Poh S Hsu: "I personally would simply set it to 'on'. Some customers feel comforted to have an auto mode, so we provided one."
As mentioned, it's also in the Owners Manual of the sub you purchased.
Thanks
post #5717 of 6214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Thanks

You're welcome. Good luck and enjoy!
post #5718 of 6214
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeeArSix View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeeArSix View Post

I recently got a VTF2-MK4 after my Epik Sentinel crapped out. I use my home theater for both music and movies. I use the front 2 speakers and sub for 2.1 channel listening through an Emotiva USP-1 pre-amp and use the home theater bypass feature on it to also use the front speakers for movies.
I set the gain on the sub to about 12 o'clock to get the bass level to my liking for listening to music. The problem is that when I did an Audyssey calibration (onkyo 707), It gave me a -15db trim level for the sub. I don't want to have to adjust the gain on the sub each time I switch from music listening to movies, so I looked into possible solutions and read up on attenuators to reduce the subwoofer signal level coming from the AVR.
1. Will a line level attenuator work on the sub output?
2. If so, will it in any way damage the sub?
3. If this is safe to use on the sub. I looked up a few on Amazon (links below). Any suggestions on choosing between the 6db or 12 db?
http://www.amazon.com/Harrison-Labs-Line-Level-Attenuator/dp/B0006N41AG
http://www.amazon.com/Harrison-Labs-Line-Level-Attenuator/dp/B0006N41B0/ref=pd_sim_sbs_e_1
And just for reference, the room is 13 x 17ft with openings to the hallway and kitchen.
media_room.pdf 216k .pdf file

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom C View Post

-15 means that you sub volume is too high. It’s reducing the sub channel level to compensate. You should turn down the volume on the sub and rerun Audyessy until the level in the AVR is plus or minus 3.
If you like your bass louder for music I would think that raising the level in the AVR would be the best way. Then you can get the level back correctly for movies. If you adjust the volume on the sub it’ll be difficult to get it back to the original calibrated position.

That's the issue, I don't want to turn the down the volume on the sub. The AVR isn't on when I listen to music, I listen to music through an Emotiva USP-1 pre-amp which doesn't let me adjust the bass level, which is why I have to manually set it on the sub. If I turn down the volume on the sub for movies, then I have to manually turn it up for music.

Oh, well then, never mind. That's above my pay grade. redface.gif
post #5719 of 6214
Quote:
Originally Posted by asere View Post

Is having the sub gain at 9 o'clock and avr dbs at +/-3 the same as having the gain at 10 o'clock with avr dbs at+/-3 as far as volume goes?

It would be louder at 10 o'clock.

I could be wrong, but I suspect that you might be still a bit confused, so if you’ll please bear with me. Setting the sub at 9 o’clock with one port open, EQ1 and Q=0.7 is a starting point for running something like Audyssey. Once you've run it you then check where the receiver set the sub level. Ideally you want it to be somewhere between +/- 3 dB. If it’s more than that in the positive direction that means that the sub volume is too low. The receiver is raising the sub level to compensate for it. You then turn up the sub volume a little bit and rerun Audyssey. Repeat till the sub level in the receiver is +/- 3 dB. If it’s in the negative direction that means the sub volume is too high. You then lower the sub volume and rerun Audyssey till you’re in the +/- 3 dB range. Ideally the sub volume should be at 9 o’clock, but due to varying factors (room acoustics, distance, etc.) it can be +/- in either direction.

If I remember correctly, when you have the receiver at +/- 3 dB for the sub level in the receiver the volume on the sub itself is something like 10-10:30. That’s kind of high. So if you haven’t already, post a sketch of your layout with measurements so the good doctor and others can give you some suggestions on how to get the volume on the sub closer to 9 with the receiver sub level at +/- 3 dB. This may include moving the sub to a different location.

When that is done then you can look at changing the one port open, EQ1 and Q=0.7 configuration to suit your tastes (unless you’ve already done that per suggestions from Dr. Hsu).

I hope this helps.
Edited by Tom C - 11/29/12 at 5:56pm
post #5720 of 6214
Just looking for some input from you guys. Looking at replacing an older 10" klipsch sub. The candidates I'm deciding between are: Hsu VTF-2 MK 4 and the Epik Legend. The Epik is on sale right now for $399 + free shipping. The Hsu is also on sale but for $519 + $64 for shipping. I haven't heard either sub. Just looking for some good feedback. Thanks
post #5721 of 6214
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeeArSix View Post

That's the issue, I don't want to turn the down the volume on the sub. The AVR isn't on when I listen to music, I listen to music through an Emotiva USP-1 pre-amp which doesn't let me adjust the bass level, which is why I have to manually set it on the sub. If I turn down the volume on the sub for movies, then I have to manually turn it up for music.
Sounds to me that if you adjust the sub gain to how you like it with the emotiva then run audyssey and leave it at whatever it sets it at. My Sony ES 4400 sets the sub level at -12 with sub gain around 9:00 and I level match everything with an SPL meter. Sounds great to me so I'm not really concerned that it's not near 0.
Edited by ambesolman - 11/29/12 at 7:24pm
post #5722 of 6214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom C View Post

It would be louder at 10 o'clock.
I could be wrong, but I suspect that you might be still a bit confused, so if you’ll please bear with me. Setting the sub at 9 o’clock with one port open, EQ1 and Q=0.7 is a starting point for running something like Audyssey. Once you've run it you then check where the receiver set the sub level. Ideally you want it to be somewhere between +/- 3 dB. If it’s more than that in the positive direction that means that the sub volume is too low. The receiver is raising the sub level to compensate for it. You then turn up the sub volume a little bit and rerun Audyssey. Repeat till the sub level in the receiver is +/- 3 dB. If it’s in the negative direction that means the sub volume is too high. You then lower the sub volume and rerun Audyssey till you’re in the +/- 3 dB range. Ideally the sub volume should be at 9 o’clock, but due to varying factors (room acoustics, distance, etc.) it can be +/- in either direction.
If I remember correctly, when you have the receiver at +/- 3 dB for the sub level in the receiver the volume on the sub itself is something like 10-10:30. That’s kind of high. So if you haven’t already, post a sketch of your layout with measurements so the good doctor and others can give you some suggestions on how to get the volume on the sub closer to 9 with the receiver sub level at +/- 3 dB. This may include moving the sub to a different location.
When that is done then you can look at changing the one port open, EQ1 and Q=0.7 configuration to suit your tastes (unless you’ve already done that per suggestions from Dr. Hsu).
I hope this helps.

Which one is the flattest response?



68,68,66,75,75,71,66


68,74,66,72,67,64,60


75,76,70,72,70,64,64


76,76,73,73,73,66,60


76,72,71,75,64,64,66
Edited by asere - 11/30/12 at 5:53am
post #5723 of 6214
Quote:
Originally Posted by neo samurai View Post

Just looking for some input from you guys. Looking at replacing an older 10" klipsch sub. The candidates I'm deciding between are: Hsu VTF-2 MK 4 and the Epik Legend. The Epik is on sale right now for $399 + free shipping. The Hsu is also on sale but for $519 + $64 for shipping. I haven't heard either sub. Just looking for some good feedback. Thanks

Haven't heard the Epik, but I am a Hsu owner. I chose the Hsu because it is so customizable to your own preferences and the bass is nice and tight.
I also had done a lot of reading in this thread and did my research in various sub threads.
post #5724 of 6214
Quote:
Originally Posted by neo samurai View Post

Just looking for some input from you guys. Looking at replacing an older 10" klipsch sub. The candidates I'm deciding between are: Hsu VTF-2 MK 4 and the Epik Legend. The Epik is on sale right now for $399 + free shipping. The Hsu is also on sale but for $519 + $64 for shipping. I haven't heard either sub. Just looking for some good feedback. Thanks

Easy decision now. Epik Legends are sold out.
post #5725 of 6214
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeeArSix View Post

I recently got a VTF2-MK4 after my Epik Sentinel crapped out. I use my home theater for both music and movies. I use the front 2 speakers and sub for 2.1 channel listening through an Emotiva USP-1 pre-amp and use the home theater bypass feature on it to also use the front speakers for movies.
I set the gain on the sub to about 12 o'clock to get the bass level to my liking for listening to music. The problem is that when I did an Audyssey calibration (onkyo 707), It gave me a -15db trim level for the sub. I don't want to have to adjust the gain on the sub each time I switch from music listening to movies, so I looked into possible solutions and read up on attenuators to reduce the subwoofer signal level coming from the AVR.
1. Will a line level attenuator work on the sub output?
2. If so, will it in any way damage the sub?
3. If this is safe to use on the sub. I looked up a few on Amazon (links below). Any suggestions on choosing between the 6db or 12 db?
http://www.amazon.com/Harrison-Labs-Line-Level-Attenuator/dp/B0006N41AG
http://www.amazon.com/Harrison-Labs-Line-Level-Attenuator/dp/B0006N41B0/ref=pd_sim_sbs_e_1
And just for reference, the room is 13 x 17ft with openings to the hallway and kitchen.
media_room.pdf 216k .pdf file

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom C View Post

-15 means that you sub volume is too high. It’s reducing the sub channel level to compensate. You should turn down the volume on the sub and rerun Audyessy until the level in the AVR is plus or minus 3.
If you like your bass louder for music I would think that raising the level in the AVR would be the best way. Then you can get the level back correctly for movies. If you adjust the volume on the sub it’ll be difficult to get it back to the original calibrated position.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeeArSix View Post

That's the issue, I don't want to turn the down the volume on the sub. The AVR isn't on when I listen to music, I listen to music through an Emotiva USP-1 pre-amp which doesn't let me adjust the bass level, which is why I have to manually set it on the sub. If I turn down the volume on the sub for movies, then I have to manually turn it up for music.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom C View Post

Oh, well then, never mind. That's above my pay grade. redface.gif
Just to close the loop on this. I emailed the man himself (Dr. Hsu) and he says there's no reason an attenuator wouldn't work and shouldn't damage the sub.
post #5726 of 6214
Right, just saw that. Don't know when they will be in stock again. So now I will look into the SVS Pb 1000 as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhskyTangoFoxtrt View Post

Easy decision now. Epik Legends are sold out.
post #5727 of 6214
Quote:
So now I will look into the SVS Pb 1000 as well.
IMO, you should seriously look into it before end of day today, because that's when the free return shipping offer ends.

The PB-1000, according to Ed Mullen of SVS, is comparable to the PB12-NSD in all ways except for maximum output - to me, that means it's a solid performer. It costs $499, shipped, so it's a good value. And with free return shipping, there's no risk involved in demo-ing one.

If you like it, you're set; if you don't like it, it cost you nothing other than a bit of time and effort.

Just my 2¢... smile.gif
post #5728 of 6214
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

IMO, you should seriously look into it before end of day today, because that's when the free return shipping offer ends.
The PB-1000, according to Ed Mullen of SVS, is comparable to the PB12-NSD in all ways except for maximum output - to me, that means it's a solid performer. It costs $499, shipped, so it's a good value. And with free return shipping, there's no risk involved in demo-ing one.
If you like it, you're set; if you don't like it, it cost you nothing other than a bit of time and effort.
Just my 2¢... smile.gif

Performance wise it is not going to match the VTF2, but since return shipping is free, there is no risk. Its specs are almost identical to a VTF1.
post #5729 of 6214
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Performance wise it is not going to match the VTF2, but since return shipping is free, there is no risk. Its specs are almost identical to a VTF1.
IMO, the PB-1000 is a much closer match - if not an outright superior sub - to the VTF-2...for less money and free shipping both ways. And if the PB-1000 is actually "almost as good as the PB12-NSD" (my paraphrasing of Ed Mullen's comment), then it is a very solid performer.

If nothing else, the OP should give it a no-risk try. Who knows - he may even like it! smile.gif
Edited by eljaycanuck - 11/30/12 at 3:47pm
post #5730 of 6214
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

IMO, the PB-1000 is a much closer match - if not an outright superior sub - to the VTF-2..
Lol gimme a break! The specs do not support your claim at all.
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