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***Official HSU owners/support thread!*** - Page 197

post #5881 of 6200
You need to get an SPL meter and run a frequency sweep to be sure. I think there is a frequency sweep on the Hsu disc. Play it back with your SPL meter in the listening position and look for dips and spikes in the meter's readings.
post #5882 of 6200
Quote:
Originally Posted by asere View Post

How can I tell if there is a null? I am not saying I have one but what can I do to find out? Just learning here!

A null is where a particular frequency have little output at that position. For example, if you sit in the middle of a 28 ft room, you will be sitting at the null of a 20 Hz signal.
post #5883 of 6200
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_hsu View Post

A null is where a particular frequency have little output at that position. For example, if you sit in the middle of a 28 ft room, you will be sitting at the null of a 20 Hz signal.


I already did the crawl and it is in the right place so how can I test for Nulls? Do I use spl at listening position or move spl around the room and what tracks do I play?
post #5884 of 6200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime316 View Post

Hey Doc,

Got a small mystery for you:


I have dual 15" subs in my home theater and thought they sounded a little over the top on heavy bass scenes. I checked where Audyssey set them last and the value was -1.5. That's well within acceptable range.

I then turned the subs' gains down a notch and ran Audyssey again and this time I got -12. mind you, I turned them down and not up. I had to turn the sub's down to almost 0 to get a reading of -3 again when it had set the sub put to -1.5 at about 9 o'clock before.

Anyone have any ideas why this would happen? I moved nothing in the room but a couple pillows on a couch.

I just set up a second VTF-3 Mk4 in a ~4000 cubic ft. room. Stacked in a quasi corner (ports and driver fire into the room, not the corner.) I use a mono Anti-Mode and XT32. I gain matched the subs, ran AM then XT32 and my results were bizarre.

I'm comfortable with Audyssey and was confident in my prediction of what i should see and it was different everywhere than what it should have been. Fooled around for a few hours and got a result that was exactly what I predicted it should be.

My conclusion is that multiple subs confuse Audyssey more than I thought it would smile.gif

My guess is that your first setup was wrong, and your current is right. But, what do you mean by "zero?" Do you mean just off the knob being physically bottomed out? Or just off the first tick mark? If you're between the first and second tick marks (second = 9:00) that sounds right based on my experience with the VTF-3 - I'm a little below 9:00 on both - but if you're below the first tick, that sounds a little suspicious.

Did you gain or level match the subs? As part of the setup routine that got me the results I expected, I gain matched them using the bass test tone from the AVR during Audyssey setup, while simultaneously setting them for 75db as per the AVR. Originally I had used a test CD and gain matched them as a separate process.
post #5885 of 6200
Unless you are using Audyssey's SubEQ which only comes with some receiver's that have Audyssey MultiEQ XT32 (but NOT the Onkyo 818), Audyssey treats all the subs as one sub, which can cause problems. If your subs are out of phase with each other, you can actually get a decrease in output with respect to a single sub, not an increase. With an SPL meter, check how the subs phase is at listening position by running some test tones and comparing the responses of different phases. Keep the setting that gives you the highest readings on your SPL meter, but make sure to check them at different frequencies. Write down the results of each frequency with the subs in a particular phase configuration and compare them.
post #5886 of 6200
Quote:
Originally Posted by asere View Post

I already did the crawl and it is in the right place so how can I test for Nulls? Do I use spl at listening position or move spl around the room and what tracks do I play?

Are you interested in having great bass in just your seat, or you want a good even distribution?
post #5887 of 6200
Quote:
Originally Posted by fjames View Post

I just set up a second VTF-3 Mk4 in a ~4000 cubic ft. room. Stacked in a quasi corner (ports and driver fire into the room, not the corner.) I use a mono Anti-Mode and XT32. I gain matched the subs, ran AM then XT32 and my results were bizarre.

I'm comfortable with Audyssey and was confident in my prediction of what i should see and it was different everywhere than what it should have been. Fooled around for a few hours and got a result that was exactly what I predicted it should be.

My conclusion is that multiple subs confuse Audyssey more than I thought it would smile.gif

My guess is that your first setup was wrong, and your current is right. But, what do you mean by "zero?" Do you mean just off the knob being physically bottomed out? Or just off the first tick mark? If you're between the first and second tick marks (second = 9:00) that sounds right based on my experience with the VTF-3 - I'm a little below 9:00 on both - but if you're below the first tick, that sounds a little suspicious.

Did you gain or level match the subs? As part of the setup routine that got me the results I expected, I gain matched them using the bass test tone from the AVR during Audyssey setup, while simultaneously setting them for 75db as per the AVR. Originally I had used a test CD and gain matched them as a separate process.


I kept running Audyssey and kept getting -12db settings. Finally, I disconnected one sub and ran it again and got it to give me a -3.5, hooked the other sub back up and gain matched it and left it at that. I didn't even feel like watching a movie at all that......lol.
post #5888 of 6200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime316 View Post

I kept running Audyssey and kept getting -12db settings. Finally, I disconnected one sub and ran it again and got it to give me a -3.5, hooked the other sub back up and gain matched it and left it at that. I didn't even feel like watching a movie at all that......lol.

If you left them in separate locations when matching that is level matching. To gain match they need to be in the same location while setting gains on the subs. My two subs had different gain settings to be matched when I pulled mine out to middle of room taped the corners of one, and swapped to same location and close mic'd each time.

Here is a good thread on the subject.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1282064/two-subs-gain-matching-vs-level-matching
post #5889 of 6200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Kamp View Post

If you left them in separate locations when matching that is level matching. To gain match they need to be in the same location while setting gains on the subs. My two subs had different gain settings to be matched when I pulled mine out to middle of room taped the corners of one, and swapped to same location and close mic'd each time.

Here is a good thread on the subject.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1282064/two-subs-gain-matching-vs-level-matching


Thanks. It seems I am level matching instead of gain matching. I guess i'll try gain matching them this weekend.
post #5890 of 6200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Kamp View Post

If you left them in separate locations when matching that is level matching. To gain match they need to be in the same location while setting gains on the subs. My two subs had different gain settings to be matched when I pulled mine out to middle of room taped the corners of one, and swapped to same location and close mic'd each time.

Here is a good thread on the subject.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1282064/two-subs-gain-matching-vs-level-matching


Excellent thread, thank you!
post #5891 of 6200
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_hsu View Post

Are you interested in having great bass in just your seat, or you want a good even distribution?

I want good even distribution?
post #5892 of 6200
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Unless you are using Audyssey's SubEQ which only comes with some receiver's that have Audyssey MultiEQ XT32 (but NOT the Onkyo 818), Audyssey treats all the subs as one sub, which can cause problems. If your subs are out of phase with each other, you can actually get a decrease in output with respect to a single sub, not an increase. With an SPL meter, check how the subs phase is at listening position by running some test tones and comparing the responses of different phases. Keep the setting that gives you the highest readings on your SPL meter, but make sure to check them at different frequencies. Write down the results of each frequency with the subs in a particular phase configuration and compare them.

I have SubEQ, but decided to utilize the Anti Mode instead (can't do both.) I'm in the process of upgrading speakers, so will have to do it all over again soon, and from scratch. My intention with the sub was to get it in and working, then later, when I have to do the setup from scratch, to address phase.

Thanks for the reinforcement though smile.gif
post #5893 of 6200
I have the VTF3 MK4. I was told some bluray movies can go below 10 hz. What mode on the sub is best to get it this low? One port open or 2 ports?
post #5894 of 6200
While that is a nice sub it has no chance to give usable output below 10 Hz.
post #5895 of 6200
Quote:
Originally Posted by asere View Post

I have the VTF3 MK4. I was told some bluray movies can go below 10 hz. What mode on the sub is best to get it this low? One port open or 2 ports?

The short answer is you won't, max extention is one port open though. You'll need to spend much more to chase that freq.
I have dual 15Hs and the lowest I get 13hz before it drops off.
post #5896 of 6200
Quote:
Originally Posted by sputter1 View Post

The short answer is you won't, max extention is one port open though. You'll need to spend much more to chase that freq.
I have dual 15Hs and the lowest I get 13hz before it drops off.

So when watching a movie what mode is better 2 ports open Q3 EQ2 or 1 port open Q3 EQ2? It's been explained before but I am still very confused. If 2 ports is better for mid bass but some movies go lower than 20hz won't 1 port open be better?
post #5897 of 6200
Quote:
Originally Posted by asere View Post

So when watching a movie what mode is better 2 ports open Q3 EQ2 or 1 port open Q3 EQ2? It's been explained before but I am still very confused. If 2 ports is better for mid bass but some movies go lower than 20hz won't 1 port open be better?
Yes I run mine 1 port open eq1 q=7. That will allow the sub to reach its lowest limits.
post #5898 of 6200
Quote:
Originally Posted by asere View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sputter1 View Post

The short answer is you won't, max extention is one port open though. You'll need to spend much more to chase that freq.
I have dual 15Hs and the lowest I get 13hz before it drops off.

So when watching a movie what mode is better 2 ports open Q3 EQ2 or 1 port open Q3 EQ2? It's been explained before but I am still very confused. If 2 ports is better for mid bass but some movies go lower than 20hz won't 1 port open be better?

It's a preference man. Play it like you like it. smile.gif I won't tell you how many times I've altered my settings over the past two years. I'm not sure if the MK4 will play in sealed mode but if it can, then try that too.
It boils down to what you prefer.

P.S. don't forget the Q settings, you might like it higher rather than Q .3 (5 is good). You can very easily get OCD about it, being able to measure helps to combat it, or atleast cut down on OCD time.
post #5899 of 6200
Just found out Im getting a nice March bonus, Ill be adding a second VTF15h to the mix smile.gif.
post #5900 of 6200
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

Just found out Im getting a nice March bonus, Ill be adding a second VTF15h to the mix smile.gif.



Nothing is better than the mutiple 15H owners club no matter what sub others say they have. It took me a while to integrate both of them into my theater though.
post #5901 of 6200
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

Just found out Im getting a nice March bonus, Ill be adding a second VTF15h to the mix smile.gif.
+1 me too! I should be pulling the trigger in the next week. Grats!
post #5902 of 6200
I am itching to add a second 15H. Tax refund is coming. Who knows, if I is large enough I will also pull the trigger.
post #5903 of 6200
Quote:
Nothing is better than the mutiple 15H owners club no matter what sub others say they have. It took me a while to integrate both of them into my theater though.

Do you need Audyssey XT 32 to dial in multiple subs?
post #5904 of 6200
You don't need it, it just makes it very easy. It also only really works for two subs, not more.
post #5905 of 6200
Quote:
You don't need it, it just makes it very easy. It also only really works for two subs, not more.

Does Multi EQ XT work for EQ-ing two subs?
post #5906 of 6200
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Does Multi EQ XT work for EQ-ing two subs?

Sub EQ HT on board if you want them calibrated with individual distance, trim.
post #5907 of 6200
MultiEQ XT treats any subs connected to it as a single sub. This won't be optimal setting for these subs. In that case, I would place the subs in the optimal location first by testing some sweeps with an SPL meter, then run Audyssey, and then test for an optimal phase settings with an SPL meter and some test tones. There are things you can buy to flatten out the FR past that point too, outboard equalizers, but that gets a bit more involved.
post #5908 of 6200
Looking to see best bang for buck...

Emotiva/Outlaw 3 channel vs 5 channel amps

Connecting to Onkyo TX706 AVR
Speakers: HSU-15 Hybrid (with VTF-15 sub)


Do i really need the 5 channels, or can i get by with the front 3 by amp, and surround by AVR?
thanks
post #5909 of 6200
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlm86 View Post

Looking to see best bang for buck...

Emotiva/Outlaw 3 channel vs 5 channel amps

Connecting to Onkyo TX706 AVR
Speakers: HSU-15 Hybrid (with VTF-15 sub)


Do i really need the 5 channels, or can i get by with the front 3 by amp, and surround by AVR?
thanks
What kind of speakers?
post #5910 of 6200
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlm86 View Post

Looking to see best bang for buck...

Emotiva/Outlaw 3 channel vs 5 channel amps

Connecting to Onkyo TX706 AVR
Speakers: HSU-15 Hybrid (with VTF-15 sub)


Do i really need the 5 channels, or can i get by with the front 3 by amp, and surround by AVR?
thanks

Have you tried the HSU speakers with just the Onkyo? What are you wanting more of? A doubling of power is 3 db so not sure if its worth it to you. Unless you are out of juice with your receiver, I don't see the point. If you want an external amp and if its 3 or 5 channel can only be decided by you.

There have been several discussions. Here are a couple links that may be of help.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1356517/avr-w-power-amp-vs-built-in-amp
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1448143/pairing-avr-w-external-amp-3-channel-or-5-channel-or
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