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***Official HTIB Alternatives Thread*** - Page 103

post #3061 of 3363
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiplingif View Post

I bought a really crappy RCA HTIB last week and decided to do it right. My absolute max budget with shipping and all is $1250. Here is what I came up with a lot of input from a friend:

Reciever: Onkyo TX-SR 606 $397.98
Front L&R: JBL ES30 $249.99
Center: JBL ES25C $159.99
Sub: Bic Acoustech H-100 $249.00 ($30 shipping)
Rear L&R: Energy C-100's $118
Total: $1204.96

Thoughts? This is my first time and I'm a total newbie, so feel free to show your knowledge and ramble :-) Thanks!

That’s a decent budget…you really owe it to yourself to get out and listen to some different speakers. Grab a handful of CD’s and go to some places that you’ve researched. There are plenty of options even at the budget level and you’ll be able to sort out the kind of sound you like.

Some online retailers have free shipping both ways if you don’t like them:
http://www.aperionaudio.com/product/...08,20,250.aspx
http://www.aperionaudio.com/product/...09,29,253.aspx
http://www.aperionaudio.com/product/...13,20,261.aspx

Your Energy surrounds from VANNS are a good deal because they’re on closeout – I’d consider the Energy C-100 all around, get a C-C100 on eBay (out of stock everywhere else), and either stick with your BIC sub or look at SVS, HSU, or eD.

Another good value on closeout is the KEF IQ series:
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it...kef-iq5-walnut
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it...ef-iq2c-walnut
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it...-iq1-black-ash

…and SVS, a very well regarded sub manufacturer, has a 5.1 system for $999 that gets good reviews: http://www.svsound.com/products-sys-sbs_black.cfm

The Onkyo SR606 was a good value last year, but now it’s way overhyped and there are better receivers (only in my opinion) from Yamaha, Marantz, HK, etc…

Take some time, get into it, and have some fun!
post #3062 of 3363
Quote:
Originally Posted by ickysmits View Post

Your Energy surrounds from VANNS are a good deal because they're on closeout - I'd consider the Energy C-100 all around, get a C-C100 on eBay (out of stock everywhere else), and either stick with your BIC sub or look at SVS, HSU, or eD.

The Onkyo SR606 was a good value last year, but now it's way overhyped and there are better receivers (only in my opinion) from Yamaha, Marantz, HK, etc

I feel dumb asking, but if the SR606 was a good value last year, and the price has gone down, wouldn't it be an even better value now? Which receivers would you suggest I look into that cost less than the $400 I can get that for?

And, I'm a bit confused by your advice. Are you suggesting I just get 2 sets of the C-100's and the Center C-100? I was under the impression 3-way speakers were the way to go for the front?

Thank you for the links so far though. I'll look into those and see how I like them :-) $1250 is the absolute max, but I have no problem getting a great system for less! Haha
post #3063 of 3363
Sorry, I just kind of threw a bunch of stuff out there. I kind of misspoke about the SR606, it’s a pretty good receiver and has plenty of good qualities. There are others and it’s good to get a handle on some of the features that may or may not be important to you. $400 is a good price point to start comparing some of the different models.

First off, do you have a Blu-ray player and is lossless audio (TrueHD, DTS-MA, etc..) important to you?
Some receivers can decode these new audio codecs, some can accept the audio codec after it has been decoded by the Blu-ray player, and some can’t do either. Take a look at this list of these BR players and their audio capabilities to give you an idea about what I’m talking about: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1050507

Now, the SR606 and Yamaha HTR-6160 can decode these lossless audio codecs but it might not matter, for example, if you use a PS3 to watch BR movies because it only sends a decoded signal to the receiver. A lot of BR players decode these audio formats internally.

The Marantz SR4002 and Harman Kardon AVR 247 can’t decode the newer audio codecs but they can accept the decoded signal from the player.

In my opinion audio codecs aren’t the most important consideration when selecting an AVR:
-Does it have enough inputs? (Optical, coaxial, HDMI, etc…)
-Do you care about 7.1 or is 5.1 enough?
-Do you need pre outs so you can add an amplifier someday? (don’t underestimate this option as you might want to get speakers that need more power – the SR606 doesn’t have pre outs)
-Is video upconversion important to you? (some, like the Marantz above, require a component cable in addition to an HDMI cable to see its on screen display and to view non HDMI video sources)
-What are the common issues with the AVR (the SR606 is famous for running hot and I’m not sure about the others)
-Do you like how it looks?

I suggest you read some of the articles in the receiver section, get an idea about what is important to you, and ask some comparison questions. There maybe other good suggestions I'm not aware of.


The JBL speakers could be very good but I just don't know much about them. Three way speakers aren’t always better than two way speakers so it’s a good idea to listen first – and speakers are very subjective. I only recommended the Energy C-100 all around because they are such a good price and kind of a hot commodity right now.

I’d have to steer you to the speaker section because there are almost endless suggestions for speakers in the $800 price range. You can get a lot of ideas there. ($800 search)
post #3064 of 3363
Well, I have nothing now but a Coby upconverter DVD player. Im moving into an apartment this summer and will then be buying a HDTV (probably an LCD around 42") and then possibly a bluray and a dvr or something to that effect.

I just liked the look of the Onkyo because every indication is that it is "future proof". So, if it is a good quality for a decent price and will last me and all my needs for the time being, I think that is the way to go, you know?
post #3065 of 3363
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiplingif View Post

I just liked the look of the Onkyo because every indication is that it is "future proof". So, if it is a good quality for a decent price and will last me and all my needs for the time being, I think that is the way to go, you know?

Nothing is really "future proof" and that phrase makes me cringe. But if you like the Onkyo and you know it's all you'll need for a long time, go for it, it's a decent unit.
post #3066 of 3363
I am really confused. I wanted to buy a HTIB but the more that I read the more confused I get. It seems that HDMI inputs are desireable but since Samsung has none that eliminates them from the list even though they have a HT-BD2T model that includes blu ray. Oky HS6100 and HS7100 have HDMI inputs but there are reported HDMI switching problems and lengthy warm ups and mediocre speakers so I guess this is a pass also.

I don't have the money for a top of the line system but I wanted a HTIB to play music and movies via HD DVD and also a Blu Ray player. (I already have a HD DVD player but have not yet bought a blu ray). I still want to be able to use the feed from DTV for normal TV without having to turn on the HTIB (Wife does not like surround except for movies) I also own a old laser Disk player which I still like to play on occasion.
My TV is a Sony 60 inch HD projection that has 2 HDMI inputs but the sound is not great for movies even in surround sound mode.

If any one has similiar requirements as mine and has some advice, I would appreciate some help.
post #3067 of 3363
No HTIB is going to have exceptional speakers. That's the reason why they sell so cheap. The Onkyo's mediocre speakers are the best you'll get from any other brand as well. If you're okay with mediocre, they're a good deal, but don't expect exceptional sound out of any of them.

That's why this thread exists. The Onkyo (and other mentioned brands) receivers are very good, and if paired with better speakers (either name brands like Polk, Infinity, Energy) or well respected internet direct brands (AV123, SVS, Axiom, etc.) you can get a better deal, although you'll either pay more up front or have to build it over time.

You have to decide that for yourself.

For your requirements, you just need to get the right receiver, whether it be an included one in a HTIB or a standalone. The advantage to Onkyo, Yamaha, and a few other brands is that they use the same or very similar receivers to their standalone lineup, enabling you to expand to better speakers later and have most if not all the switching requirements you need.
post #3068 of 3363
I've been lurking on this site for quite a while, and learning everyday. Looking forward to continuing the journey...even if the missus doesn't!

Based on info from this thread, I've been slowly moving away from a 3-year old Yamaha HTIB. First step was to replace the less than stellar speakers with 4 x Polk M30s and a CS1. Even Mrs Luddite could discern the immediate difference these speakers made.

I'm now looking to make the last two steps, replacing the sub and the AVR. I'm still doing research on the sub, but looking at the PA-120 and BIC H-100 to continue to get the most bang for the buck.

I thought I knew what I wanted in the AVR department. Had my heart set on the Yamaha 663, but now I'm wondering if this is the right receiver for me or could it be overkill.

I've got to admit, I don't really understand all the nuances of putting together a home theater system, but I'm trainable. What confuses me is knowing exactly what I need the receiver to do as opposed to what the tv and Blu-Ray player already does.

The rest of my system includes a Samsung 52A550 tv and a Sony BDP S350 Blu-Ray player. TV signal is via a Scientific American Explorer 8300 cable box. All have HDMI connections.

System is used 75% for movies and 25% for music in a room 15' x 21'. Room size is subject to change (military member constantly moving to new locations/homes).

Intent is to hook everything up via HDMI and make the viewing pleasure as simple as possible (Mrs Luddite also uses the system...sometimes without adult supervision).

Based on the parts/pieces I already have, what is the best AVR out there for under $400 that will provide the best bang for the buck without too many unnecessary features. Looking primarily for 7.1 capes, even though only set up for 5.1 right now.

I know the Onkyo 606 is looked on favorably here, but based on concerns about overheating and the confined space the AVR will fit into, it's probably not the best choice for me.

I truly appreciate your learned opinions. Help this luddite continue to move beyond the constraints of a HTIB and into the promised land of the true home theater.

Thanks in advance.

Cheers

Soup
post #3069 of 3363
Check out the Harmon Kardon AVR 254: http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=91729
post #3070 of 3363
Thanks for the info. Since price is about the same for this and the 663, any advantage of the HK over the Yamaha?
post #3071 of 3363
Some people prefer Harmon-Kardon's sound. They also pad their specs less than the others, which some consider a plus.
post #3072 of 3363
Thanks for the added info.

I've learned a little more reading thru the "Best AVR for <$400" thread. Let me amend the question somewhat.

Since I wont have any analog devices plugged into the AVR (just a blu-ray player and comcast HD cable box) and since my blu-ray player (Sony BDP S350) should decode the latest digital codecs, do I really need an AVR that does video upconversion or decodes the latest codecs? If not, what is the best value AVR that will meet my needs since I'll only be using this for HT most of the time and music some of the time?

Thanks again for taking the time for feedback. I value the info gained and the willingness of the members here to share that info

cheers
post #3073 of 3363
You may not have much of a choice on whether the AVR decodes or not. Most HDMI audio ones also decode now.

Some of the Sonys don't, but I think there are better choices.
post #3074 of 3363
You don't absolutely need a receiver that upconverts video or decodes the latest codecs - but as Tulpa mentioned, many of the newer models do all this anyway. You could step down to a more basic receiver but I wouldn't unless you're on a very tight budget.

You could look at the Marantz SR4002 for a receiver that can handle audio decoded by a BR player: http://www.accessories4less.com/make...und-NEW/1.html
And Accessories4less is an authorized dealer. However it's an older model and the shipping might push it up to around $330.

Also have a look at the Yamaha HTR-6160 for about $350: http://www.buy.com/retail/product.as...73&dcaid=17902


Oh, and make sure to get Mrs Luddite a universal remote like the Logitech Harmony to make all this easier.
post #3075 of 3363
I'm on a vastly constrained budget (buying a new home and car this year), but wanted to move into home theater from an ancient Sony ES receiver that did prologic paired with white van speakers and a pair of bookshelves an audiophile friend built for me out of generosity (5" drivers, silk horn tweeters, not sure of the specs and he can't remember). I understand the idea of buying your speakers primarily and then upgrading receivers after the speaker budget has been met, but I'm honestly just not that picky (yet pickier than the "common man") when it comes to sound quality, so I knew well enough to get an Onkyo AVR due to their overbuilding habits and history, and I knew I'd have to bite the bullet to throw speakers together for 5.1 (with a future outlook toward 7.1) that I can enjoy *now* while saving my pennies in the speaker fund for the big-boy brands in the future. I started out looking at the Onkyo 6100 all in one box system, but was thankfully talked out of that by a salesman at Accessories4Less. At the end of the day, I went with buying a TX-SR606 AVR separately (fantastic receiver, I'm all over the owner's thread and you should be too if you're considering it or looking for a ~$300 7.1 HDMI switching AVR; Audyssey more than makes any difference between this package and another brand negligible IMO), and bought 80 lb.s of their HT speakers from another set in the form of the SKS-HT540. It was frustrating that there've only been two folks on this entire site to review the 540 package they bought (both liked it very much BTW), so I'm going to elucidate a bit for those in similar situations.

I'm thrilled with the sound for movies and music (I'm not an audiophile, I do like clear sound, I tend to favor brightness, I like my bass tight, but I'm coming off of some very sloppy 12"s with teeny tiny magnets so take this with a grain of salt).

Currently I'm only employing the front three speakers and sub from the package (each with two 5" drivers, a 1" floating tweeter, and back ported) and my audiophile friend's bookshelves, so the timbre matching is fantastic all around for 5.1 (Audyssey set all my crossovers at 80Hz). The subwoofer has far more power than I need it too (we live in an apartment); I can feel the bass physically at even low volumes (granted Audyssey EQ has something to do with that). The Onkyo fronts and centers are bigger than the average HT bear, but that was exactly what I wanted (they're very nicely proportional around a 46" Aquos and I'm breaking my wife in on the idea of some glorious towers for the future). The reason I backed away from the 6100 was the sensitivity rating of the speakers: each has a 3 1/8" driver and sensitivity ratings around either 76 dB/W/m (you can't find *that* info on the Onkyo website). The fronts in the 540 package have 86 dB/W/m sensitivity ratings, the rears (which are vastly smaller and at this point untested till I get some more 16 AWG wire to run a 6.1 setup) are 82 dB/W/m.



The sound is crisp and provides very smooth imaging transitions. I get the giggles every time I run the THX audio setup on some of my discs just for fun. The sub and having a more powerful center have really woken up my HT from the 4.0 setup I was running (with the w-v speakers and bookshelves) prior to the arrival of the 540's. I'm honestly taken aback at how much more engrossing movies are and how much sound I was missing before. I look forward to seeing how much farther this comes up as these make their progressive way back to a bedroom setup when I can afford better quality speakers a piece at a time to replace them, but in the meantime, I'm very, VERY pleased with this setup.

I understand the logic of the speakers-first camp, but for someone on a budget, who wants 5.1 or 7.1 now and vacuum tube amps with reference speakers later in life, I seriously doubt you can put together a better package for $519 (AVR and speakers both refurbs [you can buy an untested product for more, but why?], granted I had my bookshelves before, but if I used the included surround speakers I doubt I'd be much less pleased; I may have to test that out and report back).

I'll put my flame suit on now and my feelings don't hurt easy so have at; I'll probably just reply that I wish I could afford Infinity Beta 50s and a top of the line HSU sub like you.

Edit/Update: I've now mixed in one of the smaller surrounds as the 6th channel for the few DVDs I have with 6.1 sound. I'll say this, the sound is considerably lesser from this speaker, Auddysey sets the crossover at 120 Hz, and I don't disagree. I don't know that I would be that dissapointed with these as my surrounds and back surrounds due to the matched voice, but they certainly aren't as good as the bookshelves I'm using now (Mr. Obvious). As an aside, what's up with 6.1 remixing? It seems like they just make up content to fill that channel and give it some use. So far, so unimpressed with the addition of a 6th channel, but I'm sure that'll change when I get bluray later this year and run 7.1 with the HD codecs.
post #3076 of 3363
Hey, I have a Logitech Z-5500 5.1 set that I'm planning on upgrading the satellites on as a decent system and then might later upgrade to a proper AVR and sub. The Z-5500 is a decent starting point as it handles Dolby decoding and has coax and toslink inputs outputting 60wx5 along with a massive 190w 10" sub... Not bad for $250 PC surround.

At first I was looking at the Fluance HTXB set, but hated the color. Next found the Yambeka Audio 5.0 set and was impressed by the looks, but I have no idea how they sound (though they get good reviews and are made in the same factory as the Fluances and the lower end Polks). Then someone pointed me toward this thread and there seems to be a ton more options than I had previously thought.

Now I'm still a penny pincher, so my budget for a 5.0 speaker set is around $300. I like the Polk R300/R150/CSR combo, but am I missing any other serious contenders in this price range?
post #3077 of 3363
Gents

Thanks again for the great info. I ended up getting a Denon AVR-888 at closeout price. Price was less than either the HK or Yammy I was looking at. Also ordered the PA-120 sub as well, so my HT is complete...for now.

All in all, spent approx $800 and built a system of 4 X Polk M-30s, Polk CS-1 center, PA-120 sub and Denon AVR-888. Never could've got there without the info on this site, and the great folks sharing their knowledge.

Now all I've got to do is wait for all the parts and pieces to arrive, then it's Christmas in Feb!

Thanks all!

Cheers

Soup
post #3078 of 3363
After more research, I've come across the Speaker company and am particularly interested in their P6-PR bookshelves. They are supposed to be comparable to Polk/JBL/Infinity lines. For $90 a pair they could be a great deal. However I've also found BIC DV62's for $90 a pair. I'm thinking of getting 3 sets for perfectly matched surround sound.

Anyone have experience with these speakers or have any advice on which way to go?
post #3079 of 3363
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpartacusMagnus View Post

After more research, I've come across the Speaker company and am particularly interested in their P6-PR bookshelves. They are supposed to be comparable to Polk/JBL/Infinity lines. For $90 a pair they could be a great deal. However I've also found BIC DV62's for $90 a pair. I'm thinking of getting 3 sets for perfectly matched surround sound.

Anyone have experience with these speakers or have any advice on which way to go?

I'd go with the Energy C-100 on closeout for only $30 more per pair.
post #3080 of 3363
I believe this is the correct place to post this, but if not lemme know where to put it. After loads of research and talking to members on here (thanks for all your help) I think I have finally come to a decision on my theater system. I just want to figure out what cables and wires I will need. Here is what I will have

47" Vizio HD LCD
Onkyo 606
Onkyo 540 speakers
DirecTV HD DVR box
Belkin iPod dock
Panasonic BD 60 (when it comes out)

Also, is there a difference in running everything through the receiver and only having 1 HDMI cord from receiver to Tv, or running 3 HDMI cables to TV (receiver, DirecTV box, BD player)? Thanks
post #3081 of 3363
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blake1547 View Post

I believe this is the correct place to post this, but if not lemme know where to put it. After loads of research and talking to members on here (thanks for all your help) I think I have finally come to a decision on my theater system. I just want to figure out what cables and wires I will need. Here is what I will have

47" Vizio HD LCD
Onkyo 606
Onkyo 540 speakers
DirecTV HD DVR box
Belkin iPod dock
Panasonic BD 60 (when it comes out)

Also, is there a difference in running everything through the receiver and only having 1 HDMI cord from receiver to Tv, or running 3 HDMI cables to TV (receiver, DirecTV box, BD player)? Thanks

Hey, Blake, didn't want you to just have me to deal with, but guess I'll field this one. It should probably have gone (and in future go) in the TX-SR606 Owner's thread, because it's mainly a question about connecting up the 606. You'll obviously need an HDMI cable or two (three once you've got your BD player). Monoprice.com and BlueJean cable are great (there are links at the top of the AVS Forums page under sponsors). You'll also need to grab some 16 AWG speaker wire for your connections and I'd recommend banana plugs like before. The only questions you need to ask yourself between running all three to the TV or all to the AVR then AVR to TV are these:

1) Do you want to use your AVR for switching (if so, run them there)
2) Do you need to have separate TV calibrations for the inputs (if so, run them to the TV; I only have one calibration on my TV for all inputs and am happy FWIW)
3) Do you want to have the True HD and Master HD audio? (if so, you'll need the BD connected to the HDMI of the AVR as that's the only way that sound gets relayed).

What I think you might be worrying about is signal degredation? The HDMI for the 606 repeats the signal exactly as its output. It can downscale if you want it too, but it won't touch the signal otherwise. You won't have any visible difference between the two methods of connection as far as picture quality.

Hope this helps. Come join us in the 606 owner's forum anytime.
post #3082 of 3363
Need some advice on a decent home theater system.

Keep in mind I don't know jack about Audio or surround sound systems. I had planned on buying a HTIB but after some research for the past few days I have come to the conclusion that it may be better buying the pieces individually.

I live in an apartment right now so I won't be blasting the sound to loud but I am not sure how much longer I am staying here as I am considering buying a house. So i am looking for a receiver that I could easily upgrade later.

I need several HDMI connections for the following:
Sony Bravia LCD TV
COMCAST HD(No other choice)
XBOX 360
PS3 (Future Purchase mainly for blue ray but gaming is a nice addition)

I have around $1000-$1200 to spend...

After doing a little research on the site I have found the following might work:
Onkyo TX-SR606
Energy C-300
Bic H-100

Purchasing the 3 of these would put me around $1,100 right now.
Would these work well together for a nice system?
post #3083 of 3363
Need some help with a cheaper receiver recommendation, I know there are a few that everyone likes in the 250 and up range, I'm hoping for cheaper? I'm currently running a Pioneer VSX-812k and its not bad, however it only crosses over at 100hz, or higher, in my apartment using a subwoofer is not gonna fly since i'm on the second floor so I'm trying to get the most out of my floorstanders and cross them over at 60 or 80hz so I can get as much midbass and not feel like i'm listening in a tin can. 100hz and my left and right set to Large sound decent, but was thinking about upgrading to a receiver that could get me a lower cross over point so that when I move out I have not only that, but when I hook up a sub, cross it over at 80 and I should have a well rounded system..100hz in a subwoofer gets boomy for me. Any help?
post #3084 of 3363
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesixty4 View Post

I live in an apartment right now so I won't be blasting the sound to loud but I am not sure how much longer I am staying here as I am considering buying a house. So i am looking for a receiver that I could easily upgrade later.

Maybe reconsider the Onkyo SR606 because it doesn’t have pre-outs to add an external amplifier. When you move into a house you might want more power but you’d be stuck with the 606 and not able to upgrade – just something to think about.
post #3085 of 3363
Quote:
Originally Posted by ickysmits View Post

Maybe reconsider the Onkyo SR606 because it doesn’t have pre-outs to add an external amplifier. When you move into a house you might want more power but you’d be stuck with the 606 and not able to upgrade – just something to think about.

Thanks for the reply...
I just got the tv installed today and I have my Z5500 connected to it right now and it sounds fine. I think I am going to hold off on purchasing a nice system until I move into a house.
post #3086 of 3363
FYI, Vanns, today only - Velodyne VX-10 Subwoofer (Gray) $150 shipped - a good vendor, sometimes it takes a little work but they will fix their mistakes
post #3087 of 3363
Hello, I have posted here a couple times and so far have gotten no response. I orginally was planning on getting the HT-S5100 from Onkyo, then after researching looked at getting the 7100, then the 9100THX. Well then I started researching more on here and everyone said to get the best you can afford. Below is the setup I am currently considering:

Onkyo 706 reciever $550 at Vanns
BIC F12 Sub $226 on Amazon
C300 Energy Fronts $125 each at WWStereo
C-C50 Energy Center $79 at WWStereo
C100 Energy Rears and Surrounds $119/Pair at Vanns

This comes to around $1350. I will also need stands for the rears and surrounds. My question is do I need this much of a setup?? I have the following:

61" Samsung LED DLP
PS3
Nintendo Wii
DirecTV HD DVR
Looking to buy Oppo 980H

My room where the speakers will be setup is about 20'x12' with cathedral ceilings. I really need some guidance here as I am going crazy trying to figure out what to do. I would prefer not to spend the $1400 if I can get away with the 7100 or 9100. But, that being said, if it truly does make a difference and the speakers that are included in the HTIB are that crappy...then I am willing to do it. Will the setup I put together above be too much for my setup (overkill)? Please help me out here. Also, does anyone know some inexpensive stands that will work with the Energy C100's if I decide to go that route? Thanks in advance...
post #3088 of 3363
It's not overkill. Only you can say if it's overkill for your wallet, really.

Soundwise it'll probably in all likelihood sound better than the Onkyo systems.

I went from an Onkyo HTIB, kept its receiver and upgraded the speakers. No contest, the upgraded speakers were way better than the Onkyo ones, and I don't regret my purchase at all.
post #3089 of 3363
Now I'm wondering if I should get the Bipole C-R100's for the sides and C-100's for the rears. Or maybe just get the C-50's with the Bipoles??
post #3090 of 3363
Just pulled the trigger! I ended up getting:

4 C-300's
1 C-C50
2 C-100's
Onkyo 706

Not sure if I will use a 5.1 with the 300's (and put 100's in another room) or do a 7.1. Now I am just looking for a sub! Any suggestions?
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