The Official Sony 2007 KDS-(XX)A2020 [NO PRICE TALK] SXRD Owner's Thread - Page 105

Yes, it does not matter whether you can see the problem yet. The objection would be based upon the lack of any meaningful relief, and your having to give up all of your legal rights in exchange.

Sony's extended optical block warranty runs through August, and your extended service plan may require that you go through them until that expiration. Bluish blacks is a known manifestation of optical block degradation, so they should replace it for free.

What splinke said. Look at my posts over the past couple pages and you'll see that I had exactly the same issue, exactly the same questions, exactly the same anxiety, and exactly the same situation with the extended warranty provider (go to them first: they'll likely just bump it over to Sony directly, but if not, you're still covered, right?).

Bottom line: you're having OB failure. You can get it replaced for free, now. Do it: you'll be shocked at how bad your set looked once the new one is in, and will kick yourself for not having done it sooner.

And if you have a problem with the new OB, you may have some recourse (for time being, at least, through Sony) for a replacement set. But you have to have the replacement done first.

RE: whether this is an "Easy sell" for a repair tech: in my experience, it can be a little tough, depending on who you get. I took it to one place and the tech (the owner of the shop, no less) flat-out told me he wouldn't replace it even though it was covered, because (in his idiotic words) I should only expect a new TV to operate well for three to five years, and that I should accept the limitations (and failures) of SXRD technology -- he closed by saying "this is just what they look like," and told me my memory of deep blacks was tainted by seeing newer, better displays. He was a moron and a real @sshole about it. So I had my warranty folks set up an in-home appt. with a different shop. That tech looked at it and said, after I showed him how bad it was, that "it didn't look too bad" and that he "wouldn't have seen the blue border/blooming if I hadn't pointed it out." But he happily replaced the OB anyway, and when he saw the results, he basically said, "Wow, that old OB really DID look like crap compared to this!" Lesson learned for him, I guess, and this guy said he'd done dozens of OB replacements.

Moral of story: be polite but firm, confident, and insistent. Show them in a fully-darkened room if you can/need to how blue it is (which you can accentuate by turning the set off after it's at full blue-brightness: the contrast between the glowing screen and the off screen really shores it up; letterbox bars on a dark movie do well for this too in a dark room). Somebody will do the replace; you might just have to be a little patient.

And for anyone who cares, Sarah just replied to my message regarding the slight green/yellow corner/side issue, asking simply for my OB replacement claim number and phone number. We'll see what comes of this...

Update:
Holy crap. She just replied to my response, saying she's located my file and to "give me until tomorrow to see what I can do"!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Once you get on her radar, she's pretty prompt in getting back to you
from what I have read.

Hmm. You guys are starting to have me second guessing my judgement now. I wish I had yellow staining problems because that is usually localized and easy to diagnose on a grey screen. On the other hand, it sounds like bluish blacks affect the entire display area and could be easier to miss. They are also, apparently, harder to convince a service tech of.

I'm thinking my OB may just be deterioriating a lot slower than most here because I'm in a cool climate with a basement TV setup. My OB sees a lot less heat due to a below average ambient room temperature.

I can just imagine the number of people who will miss the boat on this. Gradual degradation of a feature that affects the whole screen is a tough one.

Let me ask you guys this. When you first turn on your TV, during the bulb warm up period before a picture is displayed, do you see any odd patterns (i.e. a donut shape in the center)? If the optical block is good, should the screen stay completely black until it starts up? There's no odd patterns at all once the picture comes on...again, a grey screen shows nothing unusual. By the way, I'm still on my original light bulb (no bulb warning) for what it's worth.

I should mention, I watch my TV in the basement where it is completely dark. If I turn on my 50A2020, it puts out (leaks) enough light (sitting on an external input with no source signal) that I can find my way around the room to turn on a lamp.

Steelguy,
Get it replaced.
Without a doubt.
If you have trouble convincing the first guy, go to the next.
Mine started like yours only to develop the yellow stain later.
it was easier with the yellow, but you should be able to get it addressed with the blue black. Just be persistant.

nw

^^^^^

Echo that. Yours sounds exactly like mine was. You can get that replaced like I did; just be persistent if you have to (and you may not have to). Do it now: whatever happens after, you won't regret it.

Thanks guys. I posted a pic on the I Have a Defective Sony TV Facebook page. I'll see what kind of feedback I get on it. Does Sarah Kepler still monitor that page? I got a reply from Scott Fuentes.

You can search for Sarah directly on FB; her page is the one with the Sony profile pic. I'd recommend sending her a private message through her page, with the pic. Since this is your first OB replace, she'll probably just give you the contact info for setting up the service call (and possibly authorize said service).

Now, this is info you could get direct from Sony's website, but establishing a relationship with Sarah is (I think) important in case anything else happens down the line (bad replacement OB, possible set replacement after a second failure, etc.). She's really, really nice and helpful.

My strongest advice is to be as polite as humanly possible, saying what you'd like but not being pushy or aggressive about it. I merely mentioned to her that I thought my second OB might be manifesting early signs of possible failure -- and left it at that, in her court, no pictures, no demand for a replace, nothing -- and she jumped right on it and said she'd see what she could work out for me over the next couple days. Part of that is simply her being really professional and as accommodating as she can be, but I think that part of it also has to do with establishing a respectful rapport.

But that's all looking/planning ahead for what MIGHT happen. In the shorter term, she'll point you to where you need to go to get this done and help in the process. Piece of cake.

Thanks. I took your advice and sent Sarah a PM at Facebook (with picture attachment). Scott sent me a PM referring me to the Main Customer Service number: 800.222.7669

I was going to call, but it sounds like I'd be wise to wait for Sarah. I've got to say this whole process seems like it could be filled with pitfalls. I'm sure it was worse before Sarah arrived on the scene, but I can't help being full of questions now.

It took me 36 months to notice my first OB failure -- even with everyone else discussing it here for quite some time now. What if the repair is "successful" and I go 3 years before the next one fails? What if the next OB fails immediately, but I receive firm buyout offers I can't afford? This TV was a very generous wedding gift. It is the only HDTV in my household.

I now have one kid and another planned for the near future. In this economy, I have to be very cautious when jobs aren't secure. I just wish these TV's would (at least) last as long as a typical mid-range CRT did 10 years ago. I've got a couple of those that still work great.

If everything works out great, and I get a replacement offer I can accept, I'm still not looking forward to the ackward conversation I'll be having with the relative who bought me this wedding gift. But, I guess that's the least of my worries at this point. Sorry to get off topic.

STG, we're so very much in the same boat it's scary. Except for the part about the set being a generous wedding gift (we bought ours as a gift to ourselves before our son was born), and the adding second child soon part (we just did that), we're totally in the same situation: it's our only TV, we certainly can't afford another, and the potential for a "replacement offer" that has us shelling out hundreds or more out of pocket is scary as hell. It IS a crapshoot, and I have to admit that when the OB was replaced and it looked great, part of me said, "Oh crap; now I have something that I'll be waiting for to break for the next three years like last time." So when I noticed the green/yellow discoloration, faint as it is, part of me also jumped for joy, but was (still is) filled with dread for the same reasons we've just mentioned. What if in Sony's opinion it's not "bad enough"...yet? What if by some miracle it doesn't get any worse and I accept an offer for an EX500 or EX700 which will never be the "dream TV" that the SXRD was, and could be if working properly? What if I get an offer that's borderline -- say, "$500 for a replacement because it's not as bad yet as it could be" -- and turn it down hoping for something better when/if it does get worse, and then I find myself completely SOL because Sony's policies change in the meantime? And, and, and. It sounds really petty to say that this is stressful -- there are so, so many more important things to be worried about, right? -- but it is. I really do wish that Sony would simply nut up and establish a clear, consistent, and honest plan for rectifying its affected customers' problems: a little official good faith doesn't seem like much to ask for. Fortunately, I believe that Sarah IS a "good faith actor" amidst all of this, and that she really does do all she can in her capacity to help folks out as best she can. I hope that this pans out well for the both of us (and all of us, of course).

From Sarah's direction (though I had no advance notice of this), the tech who installed the replacement OB will be over tomorrow at noon to confirm the green/yellow discoloration on the new one. I presume that this means a replacement offer is in the near future...right?

On that note, I stopped by Best Buy today to get a look at the 60ex500 and 60ex700 that they seem to be putting on the table for replacements. Both looked nice enough (though not "working sxrd nice" to my eyes: these were still the best displays on the market when not crapping themselves), but it was impossible to discern their PQ characteristics because they were mounted for display about 10' above floor level. The torch mode and blinding flourescent light contamination is bad enough, but on top of that you're going to try to sell these displays by putting them at a height that completely falls outside the viewing angle? Idiots.

Unit purchased from Costco in Sept 07, yesterday started video cycling every 40 seconds. Audio uninterrupted. Anyone ever experience this failure mode? If so what was the solution? Thanks.

I had this issue; a tech shop was unable to replicate it or find the source of the problem. But this seemed to solve it:

1) Turn off TV and unplug.
2) Disconnect all HDMI-connected components.
3) Unplug all HDMI components.
4) Wait 10-15 minutes.
5) Plug in all HDMI components
6) Reconnect all HDMI components
7) Plug in TV and turn on again.

Again, I think this what made it work again for me (something about HDMI capacitance, or something). I have heard that this problem might also be a signal of a bulb that's about to go.

Good luck!

I just tried this. No relief, same issue. Thanks. Any other suggestions?

Well, when I took mine into the shop and they failed to replicate the issue (the morning they took it I had gone through the procedure I described above), they eventually gave up and cleaned all the interior wiring/cable connections. I don't know what did it, but this problem hasn't manifested for me since that day (and my set was turning off and then on every 30-90 seconds for a week to that point).

Are you still on your original bulb? That could (emphasis: could) be causing the problem if it's near the end of its life (which seems to be between 4500 and 10,000 hours: nice target, huh?). If nothing else, do you have any warranty coverage left through Costco?

You could also try what I suggested again, this time leaving it overnight powered off/unplugged/disconnected. And doing some kind of dance around it, covered in chicken blood.

Update: OB is now on order. How long does it usually take for the local company doing repairs to get the block from Sony? Are they new or remanufactured blocks (i.e. same Sony part number?). Anyone know if the KDS-XXA2000 and KDS-XXA2020 share the same optical block part number? They may not have originally, but could receive identical blocks for repair I'd imagine.

In my case, the OB was sent to the repair shop via 2-day FedEx, and they installed it in my home the day it arrived; your milage may vary depending on the repair shop's schedule and practices (they may want to bring your set into their facility, but to be honest it's not necessary for them to do so). The whole repair takes about an hour, and most of that is removing and then reinstalling all the parts that surround the OB, which is nestled in the center of the bottom of the set. [If they do it in-home and you're going to be around, watch them while they do the work: it's really interesting to see the guts of one of these sets!]

I don't know if the replacement OBs are new or refurbs, or some mix of both. The "new" one they installed appeared to be "off-the-line new" given the way in which it was packaged, but who knows. Even the tech said he couldn't be sure. My new OB did have a manufacture date (could have been a rebuild date) on the box of 6/10, and the part number was different than that on the old OB. It was also slightly physically different: the lens housing was a bit smaller in diameter -- it could have been a 2000, or a 3000, or a redesigned 2020, but it sure wasn't the same thing that was in there originally. The tech did say that he was told (grain of salt?) that these were redesigned OBs which incorporated a UV filter to protect from degradation, and that Sony did a limited production run of them for use as replacements. I might buy this argument, as manufacturers of pretty much any product are legally required to produce a reasonable number of additional replacement parts to make sure they can fulfill warrantied repairs and the like...but if there was a redesign, in my case and others' there are still some serious QC issues: e.g., yellow/green haze on mine. He also noted that the reason the entire OB has to be replaced is that the internal parts are so complex and precisely aligned and integrated that it would be completely impractical to do what seems like the logical thing: simply swap out the old, degraded panels with new, pristine ones. Again, if you can take a look at the OB when the tech takes it out: you'll see how complicated this chunk of machinery is.

Hope your repair goes smoothly and that the new OB is either wonderful or complete crap, depending on what you hope to happen from this point out.

I left it unplugged and unconnected overnite for about 10 hours and used chicken bones. Upon restarting same issue. Bulb is original and has 6963 hours on it. Costco 2 year warranty period is expired. I suppose I could try to clean the innards, is there a service manual available?

Well, you really went all out; though I did say chicken blood, not bones.

Having seen the inside of one of these sets and the dozens upon dozens of tightly-packed cable connections, I really don't think you'd want to attempt a cleaning yourself, even with a service manual. [Don't know where to find one of those, BTW, but it's probably not difficult.]

My bulb was replaced at 6600 hours after it started to dim and flicker intermittently. That may have contributed to the "solution" to the power issue I had. If you've noticed any flickering or dimming (the latter can be hard to spot, because it's fairly gradual), you likely need a new bulb; you're about in the mid-range of the replacement window most people encounter. IIRC, I have read reports here and elsewhere that need for a bulb replace and this issue you're having are sometimes correlated. The problem is that, if it's more complicated than this, you could spend $150 on a bulb and then find that it doesn't work and you need more expensive repairs, which might not be worth it to you out of warranty.

I'd contact Sony and find out which repair sites in your area are authorized/endorsed by them, and give one of them a call and ask to speak directly to a tech. They might be able to tell you right off what the problem is, or what it could be, and what it might run to fix it. You could also schedule an in-home diagnosis, though that might cost you up to $100...but it could be something that saves you money in the long run.

Final note: If you purchased your set with a credit card, check that card's "member benefits": many extend the manufacturer's warranties significantly, and while I think that 3+ years is really pushing it, it's worth checking. Some also have "lemon coverage" for major electronics, and this might qualify if it's a diagnosed power source failure issue. Dig through the fine print on one of those annoying pamphlets the card issuers seem to send every few weeks, or go online, and you should find out if you have any recourse there.

Update: The tech Sony sent to confirm the replacement OB issue just left. I thought I'd have to convince him of the issue, but once the set warmed up he said "Wow, that's pretty bad. You've got a donut starting in the middle too!" And sure enough, there it is today: a nice green donut.

Should be hearing something from Sarah by Monday; fingers crossed!

Thanks for the good advice. AmEx automagically throws in an additional year of warranty coverage. I called Sony and got the name of a local repair service and they are coming Monday. AmEx told me they would pay for the diagnostic visit and then make a determination as to whether to authorize the repair or refund me my purchase price.

So for the moment I am hopeful that this will all work out. I don't keep chicken blood around any more, just the bones.

So here's the offer on the table after my second OB failure:

- Another Optical Block repair under warranty or
- the KDL60EX500 refurbished at no charge along with a 90 day warranty

Really?

I wonder if I should take the second OB repair just so it can fail (and it will, of course) and see if they come back with something better.

Any advice? I had hoped for a new, full-warranty replace offer of the ex500, with a possible option at some cost to upgrade to the ex700. I don't know if they consider counteroffers (would presume they don't).

Have to say I'm really disappointed. Really disappointed.

UPDATE:
After cooling down a bit (my expectations exceeded reality, I think), considering this further, and doing a bit of research on AVS, I've decided that the 60ex500 sounds like a far better option than the 60ex700 (too many pq issues with the 700 series, especially regarding uniformity: that would drive me nuts). I sent Sarah a list of questions regarding the refurbed units, including asking whether the warranty period can be extended and if (at a reasonable cost to me) a new, full-warrantied 60ex500 would be an option. I'm fine with either of those options; will report back when I hear her response.

UPDATE 2:
So here's the deal, or at least MY deal: 1) The new (3rd) OB or refurb 60ex500 offer is final; 2) To get a new 60ex500 would cost me $1400 (!), a new 60ex700 $1620 (!!!); 3) There is the possibility to purchase an extended warranty through Sony, but I have to confirm this through their warranty service; 4) Still waiting on an answer for what kind of same-model exchange they offer on refurbs in the event that I get one that's problematic (e.g., one that someone else returned for flashlighting or other problems which Sony simply repackaged, deeming it "good enough"). I'm 99% sure I'm just going to bite the bullet and take the refurb replacement.

FINAL UPDATE!
Just bit the bullet on the replacement. For anyone who's wondering (and I think others might have noted this too), here's the deal on how it works:

1) I have to send, via certified mail, the model/serial sticker off the back of the set before they ship the replacement, which should ship within 48 hours of their receiving the sticker. This will pretty much make the SXRD un-resellable through most channels, but I think I'll just craigslist it and see what I can get. All in all, the rep said it should take a couple weeks max for processing and transit, which is standard ground from a regional center.

2) Sony does sell extended warranties for refurbed products, up to 3 years, at the same rate and with the same coverage as for their new products. So if you're willing/able to put down $120 for two years or $200 for three, the extremely short 90-day warranty included shouldn't be an issue. I'm going to go for at least a 2-year, just to be safe.

Finally: I think my days here are coming to an end. It's weird to say this given the circumstances of our coming together, but it's been a pleasure drifting in and out of here and discussing with you all. Thanks for all who have helped me out; I hope I've occasionally returned the favor. I'll keep peeking in, but will mostly be haunting the official XXex500 thread from here on out; hope to see some of you there at some point (unless you get even better replacement offers than I did )!

I have a KDS-50A2000, found your post from the A2000 thread. Factory OB was bad, replaced, second one largely improved though still have magenta in the UL and LR corners and green in the LL corner. Tech came back to confirm it's bad.


Hence was offered the following...
either another OB replacement at no cost (wow!)
or the KDL-52W5100 refurb, 90 day warranty, at no cost

I asked about the EX/NX models and got the same inflated cost as you received and some song and dance about the pending litigation and not being able to go lower on price:
KDL-52EX700 for $1178.00 plus local sales tax
KDL-46NX700 for $994.00 plus local sales tax
KDL-46EX700 for $873.00 plus local sales tax

I'm going to take the 52W5100 as it's the only reasonable option outside of small claims court.


I called Sony about this and they told me that they cannot sell an extended warranty on a refurb. Let me know if you're successful though. SquareTrade supposedly can, I've emailed them to find out, though others in the A2000 thread state they need a bill of sale or approximate replacement cost of the set and Sony won't provide that. If it was new they could just take the original MSRP but not for a refurb... I was also referred to a company called Assurant but browsing their website they look to only sell to companies and not the end user. Anyone else have experience getting an extended warranty on a refurb?

Hmmm...this is about to piss me off in a huge way if true. The CSR I spoke with over the phone yesterday didn't hesitate in saying that they could cover the refurb, and he was quick to note that the price of the warranty would be based on the list price of the model as new, and that for refurbs they only offered coverage at the 2- and 3-year levels (no 4-year). He sounded like he knew what he was talking about...but then again, how many times have we heard equally confident "this is how it is [for why OBs fail, for what replacement who gets and when, etc.]" statements which are wildly different?

I'm going to take the 60ex500 offer regardless, but if I can't get that warranty I'm going to...well...I guess do nothing, because what the hell can I do at this point?

I had a sony(servicenet) warranty on my a3000 and let me tell you from experience, it was a bitch to collect on. Sure they would fix it until the original value ran out but then the plan was worthless. It was not a replacement plan, it was a repair plan. Trying to invoke the lemon clause even after 7 OB replacements was impossible to get them to do. I did finally collect but not after going through many "guerilla warfare" type actions and them crying uncle.

Would like to know, if you're able to acquire the extended warranty.

I've been following this thread for a couple of years now and have a 60A2020 that started to go bad (blacks are purple and B&W material is contaminated) about a year after I got it in June 2007.

I have a number of HDTVs and for large screen viewing I use a JVC RS35, so it's more of an annoyance and outrage to me rather than not having anything to watch.

When it first showed signs of going bad I called Sony. They offered to "arrange" for a service tech to look at it......the only problem was that "I" had to pay for the "service call" (some ridiculous amount), so I told them to forget it.

However, now, after taking everything into consideration in this thread and what Sony has done (or not done) for the victims of their defective TVs and how they've handled the whole thing in general, this is what I decided to do;

I'm going to make a video of the defects and then, using a number M80's, I'm going to blow up this worthless piece of Sony junk and put a copy on U-tube.

P.S. Does anyone remember the commercial Sony ran years ago where they showed a Sony TV as the generations of a family aged, the only constant was the Sony TV that remained through it all? THOSE DAYS ARE GONE!

I'd like to make one where Sony's regular warranty is 7 days and they brag about offering an extended warranty for a total of 30 days. But it's a "limited" warranty and one of the conditions is that you can only watch the TV at certain times and use Sony specified settings.

I was told to contact SonyStyle again once the unit was delivered; I should have it by this time next week, and will report back as soon as I make the attempt!