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JVC DLA-RS1 Owner's Thread - Page 6

post #151 of 8724
Now that the projectors are arriving, Daylight Savings starts....... tough in those situations without a bat cave.......

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #152 of 8724
With its already very high On/Off CR and less than ideal light output at D65, a CC filter is the last thing you'd want to add to this PJ. The only appreciable effect would be less lumens.
post #153 of 8724
Quote:


They are not double boxed?

Unfortunately, no. I just shipped one today standard overnight FedEx...but first opened it, added a double siding of cardboard and packing air bags all around.
post #154 of 8724
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackLT View Post

Rob or other -
With these arriving now...

Just thinking it might be a good idea if someone could post suggested "out of the box" quick settings to get started?

The early reports suggested D65 pretty much out of the box,
but now I'm not sure, if thats the case or just how to quickly get close to that?

What's the best setup to get started with a HDTV box or DVD player?

So we don't jump the gun and make rash judgements

Not a bad idea, but I don't know that anybody has any suggestions for OOTB quick settings at this point. Several people got the RS1 today, so we may get some people chiming in on that. But I would think everyone will at least use Digital Video Essentials or similar disc for initial settings as this doesn't take too long anyway.
post #155 of 8724
I would appreciate some quick OOTB settings. Anybody?
post #156 of 8724
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Ballentine View Post

I would appreciate some quick OOTB settings. Anybody?

Step 1. Power On

That's it!
post #157 of 8724
Well based on get grey I decreased my contrast to -7 and the brightness is at +1.

Here is a question...do I want to set hdmi on the pj to enhanced or normal when using the Tosh A-1 player? I have it on normal which is the default.
post #158 of 8724
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagercola View Post

Step 1. Power On

That's it!

so funny I forgot to laugh...
post #159 of 8724
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlindo View Post

Well based on get grey I decreased my contrast to -7 and the brightness is at +1.

Here is a question...do I want to set hdmi on the pj to enhanced or normal when using the Tosh A-1 player? I have it on normal which is the default.

My guess is that you have it right. If you didn't I think your brightness setting through your calibration would have come out much differently.

Here's a quick experiment. Change the HDMI setting, then recheck your Brightness pattern and see if blacks are now crushed or way to white. If so then your previous setting was correct. Let us know what you find.
post #160 of 8724
I did try both and when set to enhanced the brightness needs to be decreased to -8.

I *think* there is slighty more shadow detail when set to normal but if there is it is a minor change.
post #161 of 8724
What ceiling mount goes with the RS 1?
post #162 of 8724
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlindo View Post

I did try both and when set to enhanced the brightness needs to be decreased to -8.

I *think* there is slighty more shadow detail when set to normal but if there is it is a minor change.

Then that proves the Normal setting was correct. Then again the Enhanced setting I think would be technically correct too just as long as you have the brightness setting set accordingly. At any rate I'd go with the one that gets you closed to brightness of 0. And you should not have any noticeable difference at all in shadow difference if your settings are correct.
post #163 of 8724
I figure since this is the owner's thread I will whip out my impressions thus far.

First off I am not a hardcore video guy meaning I like a nice accurate picture but I do not spend hours tweaking nor do I have the knowledge like many fine folk here do. I used to be more into trying to tweak things for ages but over the past couple years I have grown to just watch and appreciate the movie rather than nitpick the image. With that in mind my feedback may not be all that useful for many here who require to know every in & out of this machine and all that jazz which some of the big video guys here will no doubt need to pass along. Also, I have never owned a "higher end" PJ since I've been in this front projector game from mid 2002 on. I just never could justify dropping 10+ grand on a PJ when I knew how much the market changes each year. The closest I have had to a higher end PJ would be the Epson PowerLite Cinema500 LCD pj that I got in mid 04 which at the time was pretty well thought of, at least it was based on the reports/feedback I read at the time. My other PJs have been (in order) the Panny Ae100, Sanyo Z1, Sanyo Z2, the Epson, and then the Sanyo Z5 which I got as a temp PJ until the RS1 came out. So yeah, I'm not a guy who can compare this to a bunch of top PJs and can only compare it to the PJs i have owned, my Pioneer Elite RPTV and a few plasmas.

With all that out of the way let me just say that I think this projector is pretty amazing. I can't believe how clear, sharp and smooth the image is. I find the colour reproduction to be very nice (it doesn't look oversaturated to me but apparently the tests say it is), shadow detail to be quite good and the black level is very nice. Anyone who thinks this PJ will cause their room to go totally dark on a fade to black will be letdown because it won't so just know that going in. Make no mistake I think the black level is damn good but I will say based on all the hype I probably had unrealistic expectations going in so it isn't like I was blown away...still, it is the best black level I have seen.

I found the image to have some nice depth and punch on low APL scenes and it totally destroys every previous PJ I have had in this area. Bright scenes to me looked incredible as well and had a very nice 3D effect to them and reminded me of a plasma. To think that some DLPs would have more dpeth in these types of scenes is pretty crazy to me (in a good/impressive way) as the RS1 is IMO very impressive.

The craziest thing was when I turned it on and went to view the pixels at the screen. I was expecting small pixels (obviously) but these things are TINY. I have no clue how someone could tell how much the convergence is off and then try and fix it because I tried and couldnt really tell. Speaking of, I think my red may be off a half pixel or maybe 1/4...I honestly can't tell nor do I really care because at any real seating distance there is IMO no way I or anyone else I know could tell. I do wish the unit had power focus so I could just stand at the screen and do my thing. The Epson ahd that and I loved it. Manual focus either requires a bunch of back and forth action or someone else helping. For the RS1 I had my buddy help me focus it.

I found the fan noise to be a non-issue on the normal lamp setting and even on high lamp mode it didn't seem to be THAT bad...at least not as bad as I was expecting based on what some have said here on the forum about it. I don't have my ceiling mount for it yet so I just had it on a tv tray table and had my Toshiba A1 beside it on another table. To me the JVC is about equal in volume to the A1 and I had both within a couple feet of me.

The image was plenty bright on my screen which is a 106" diagonal DaLite HCCV and I think anything brighter would have been hard on my eyes. I will say that where I had the table the zoom was pretty much maxed out so the brightness will decrease when I ceiling mount it as my mount position is about 5 or so feet further back.

I saw no issues of colour uniformity. If this unit has it it is so minor that I can't be bothered trying to strain to see it. Having come from 5 LCD pjs I know full well what this issue looks like (and it is something that annoys me) and believe me, if my RS1 had an issue with this I'd have seen it during the greyscale patterns I was viewing.

Colour temp seemed to be pretty accurate but I am sure one could tweak it a bit to get it even more accurate. For me personally I won't spend the time on this because it seems good enough for me.

I viewed mainly hd dvds (didnt want to move my PS3 from my stand to peep bluray) some high def cable and some regular DVDs. HD DVDs looked great as did the regular DVDs I checked. HD cable looked not bad but this pj made seeing all the macroblocking and other artifacts much easier than my Z5 or the Epson before it. In fact, I think if you feed this thing a mediocre signal and it will chew it up and spit it out. I was really impressed with how well DVDs looked on it as I was expecting them to not be that good. Obviously the HD DVD quality easily trumped DVD but I wouldn't hide in shame watching good transfered DVDs on this thing.

My unit does have the bright corner thing but it appears only really in the bottom left corner. Despite this, I will say it is a non issue because it is barely noticeable and I'd have to be looking at the area to see it and the screen would have to be full black or close to full black for it to be seen. Obviously it'd be nice if this issue wasn't there but at least for me it isn't a big deal. I have seen this type of issue on LCD mointors and it si 20 times worse on those than the PJ. Really, at elast on my RS1 this bright corner thing is barely visible. You have to stare at the area for a couple seconds to make out the brighter area and even then you need a bit more time to funny adjust. I think those who say it is very noticeable must have saw a unit that had it a lot worse than mine does.

I guess that is basically it for my initial feedback of this projector. I think it is a steal for the price and I can't see myself upgrading for a few years....and I am a believer in 1080p displays. I know it isn't just the resolution but you can easily tell the resolution had a big factor in the greatly superior PQ this has over the Z5 or Epson.

Oh and one more thing...this unit is damn sharp. Despite all the reports of it being sharp I didn't know what to expect going in and I have got to say the sharpness impressed me.
post #164 of 8724
Thanks Rob for the detailed impressions and glad to hear you are enjoying it.
post #165 of 8724
ROB... glad you're enjoying your PJ so much. I've contemplated a few of your prior recent PJs so it's nice to hear this is a major improvement (as it should be ). I plan on having mine for many years!
post #166 of 8724
Oh yeah one more thing...I plan to re-watch every hddvd/bluray that I peeped on my Z5 because it is that much a difference on this thing. All the extra detail I saw in Kong and MI3 was crazy, not to mention how much depth, richness and smoothness the image had.
post #167 of 8724
Thanks for the review! Use binoculars when adjusting the focus. Then you can do it by yourself.
post #168 of 8724
Quote:
Originally Posted by erkq View Post

Thanks for the review! Use binoculars when adjusting the focus. Then you can do it by yourself.

Yes, exactly binocs are the call. I actually greatly prefer manual lens focus - it just helps me move the lens back and forth exactly to dial in the sweet spot.
post #169 of 8724
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the review/comments Rob, good job!
post #170 of 8724
yeah i have used binocs before on a previous pj but I find binoculars sorta hurt my eyes. I chalk that up to my eyes being crap. heh

One thing I frogot to mention. When I was viewing some HD cable on the box I was flipping through channels and some have that video junk at the top of the image whihc is supposed to be in the overscan area. I am sure people know what I am talking about. Anyway, on the RS1 there is an option called masking which has 3 settings- Off, 2.5, 5%. I figured this was overscan and that selecting the 2.5% would zoom the image up but it doesn't work like that. What it does is I guess knock out the pixels in that range so you get a little black windbox around the image and I am guessing you can then increase the image size to compensate for this and the area blacked out will be in your screen boarder. It's not a big deal for the few channels that has this issue but I wish it worked like an overscan setting instead and just kept the projected image outline the same and just zoomed the material to compensate for the % you select.
post #171 of 8724
Nice job Rob! We are about half an hour away from firing up the RS-1 and Ruby in a side-by-side (more accurately ceiling/table) comparison. I'll give some quick/simple comments later tonight.

Jim
post #172 of 8724
Great job Rob!

I'm a little disappointed you weren't blown away by the black level. I would have thought that would have been one of the biggest areas of improvement. Can you tell us a little about the light conditions in your room? Is there any ambient light, light walls, etc.?

I covered every surface in my room with black velvet (except the floors - getting a dark carpet) and hid all of my equipment behind the couch. I'm hoping for some decent black levels.
post #173 of 8724
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlindo View Post

yeah i have used binocs before on a previous pj but I find binoculars sorta hurt my eyes. I chalk that up to my eyes being crap. heh

One thing I frogot to mention. When I was viewing some HD cable on the box I was flipping through channels and some have that video junk at the top of the image whihc is supposed to be in the overscan area. I am sure people know what I am talking about. Anyway, on the RS1 there is an option called masking which has 3 settings- Off, 2.5, 5%. I figured this was overscan and that selecting the 2.5% would zoom the image up but it doesn't work like that. What it does is I guess knock out the pixels in that range so you get a little black windbox around the image and I am guessing you can then increase the image size to compensate for this and the area blacked out will be in your screen boarder. It's not a big deal for the few channels that has this issue but I wish it worked like an overscan setting instead and just kept the projected image outline the same and just zoomed the material to compensate for the % you select.

Yes the masking is just that - it blanks the area. The advantage is that no scaling occurs to remove that material (if say you are watching a 1080i signal). The 2.5% is rather high for a first step above OFF. I would have preferred something like 1% as normally the junk I see is just a single line or two of pixels at the top.

Of course one alternative in this situation if such minor masking is needed is to not use this feature at all, and instead just zoom the picture out a bit larger than the screen to get the junk on the black masking/frame surround the screen.
post #174 of 8724
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

The 2.5% is rather high for a first step above OFF. I would have preferred something like 1% as normally the junk I see is just a single line or two of pixels at the top.

Or would it have been that much harder allow the blanking to have been separately user programable for left, right, top, bottom (in units of pixels rather than %) ?. A couple of lines off the top might be all that is needed. Why take a hit on the other edges ?

Brent
post #175 of 8724
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwishred View Post

Or would it have been that much harder allow the blanking to have been separately user programable for left, right, top, bottom (in units of pixels rather than %) ?. A couple of lines off the top might be all that is needed. Why take a hit on the other edges ?

Brent

Time to market. That would have been nice too, but remember every feature no matter how small takes time and $ - and when you start doing lots of little things that begins to add up quickly. That's the type of thing that external VPs typically will let you do - not realistic to expect that level of control from the pj (although it would have been nice for sure).
post #176 of 8724
Great review Rob. Thanks a ton.

-tony
post #177 of 8724
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Derks View Post

If the output is 600 lumens in normal mode and after CC filtering and boosting red gain to max then output can be still 600 lumens (instead of the 670 lumens in dynamic mode) In comparison to the normal mode there is little or no light loss. However the black levels are improved because there is also light loss from the filter in dark scenes. Overall the dynamic range will improve. How much wil depend on the available headroom.

I suspect that you won't actually have 600 lumens with a CC filter no mater how you adjust - there is some loss in the filter. I've done quite a few of these...

Unless this projector is very different from previous JVC UHP, a magenta filter is probably going to be a better choice to improve contrast. However, with the contrast this projector already has, it's going to take an expensive filter, glass with good AR coatings, and even then I'm not sure what the impact will be on intra-scene contrast.

William
post #178 of 8724
Quote:
Originally Posted by erkq View Post

Thanks for the review! Use binoculars when adjusting the focus. Then you can do it by yourself.

I never thought of that... What a great idea! Thanks!
post #179 of 8724
Quote:
Originally Posted by wm View Post

I suspect that you won't actually have 600 lumens with a CC filter no mater how you adjust - there is some loss in the filter. I've done quite a few of these...

Unless this projector is very different from previous JVC UHP, a magenta filter is probably going to be a better choice to improve contrast. However, with the contrast this projector already has, it's going to take an expensive filter, glass with good AR coatings, and even then I'm not sure what the impact will be on intra-scene contrast.

William

Yes, I suspect there will be some light loss in comparison with the normal setting.
I tried a spare CC040R with the calibrated setting and the image is too red.
I estimate it's more like CC015 or CC020.

I was assuming red and 600 lumens just as example.
The filter I get in the deal will be a glass filter. I do not know the actual color if it yet. The actual color filter needed depends on actual measurements taken from the projector itself.

Measured spectrum from Cine4Home review:


Indicates that magenta will be a better choice indeed.


See link for details about the filter used for C4H 'Innovative tuning'. (german)

C4H tuning

According too this coated glass is used to improve light tranmission and reduce reflections.

I can see why people with bat caves and high gain screens can be bothered by the light spill during a total fade to black. The corners do stand out a little but the screen is lighting up a little too. An adjustable iris mechanism would have been most welcome to be able to trade in some of the brightness for a yet even better black level.

(This will also improve a little when the bulb ages a little)

I will experiment with controlled lighting at the sides of the screen to fool the eye into a better in screen contrast perception. (Just like Philips Amibilight does)


What I find strange that I can see a ***white*** ring or tube between the optic elements. Could that be causing the cornering?
My projector is at the ceiling and projecting downwards.
The lower corners stands out just a bit more when the lens is shifted down. To me it suggest that this white object could be the cause as the lightpath is travelling through the bottom half of the lens. At the dealer the lens shift was in neutral position and the cornering looked more even.
post #180 of 8724
Quote:
Use binoculars when adjusting the focus.

Using a monocular is an old standard for projectionists.

Okay, I can't be as eloquent or verbose as Rob about my first hours with the RS1. Bloody f***ing amazing, gorgeous...as faithful to the film as any cinematographer could hope for. I am quite astonsihed. This is film black, not video black. Release prints are timed to have density that will render the reference picture for projector lamphouses that are going to generate 12 to 22 footlamberts (16 open gate). A dead black scene on film is not black. It's about like the black we see here. Stick a white basketball in the shot, and it becomes ink black. Video can make a black that is blacker, but if film is your reference, it is just not going to get much better that this. I was worried about the color. Absolutely dead on using the Lumagen test patterns and isolated primaries looking at SMPTE bars...and not a single scene in any movie looked over-saturated, even some fiesty ones like Apollo 13. They just looked right/accurate/faithful. It looks like the grayscale in my Lumagen needs a little touch up with this PJ, but not much, but I'll put up the analyzer later. You need to select the proper set-up for HD and SD (HDMI level). SD=Standard HD=Enhanced. Black crush very obvious on HD if standard is selected. Tons of detail, but just like looking at a film print. Particularly interesting is watching the focus pulling in Batman Begins. Anamorphic, therefore tough to keep what you want in focus. This is as good as watching in dailies to check how well the camera assistant did on focus. I can actually watch technical details like that about the photography as I would if I were working on the movie. I was watching on 120" CIH 2.35 screen at 13'. Great achievement. Enjoy it guys.
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