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New constant height install, need tips and procedures for Isco 3 install

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 
This evening a friend and I will start installing the various components that will eventually transform the theater into a constant height viewing experience, placement of the components will be more critical than usual because the theater will also be hosting a second screen which is already mounted which is a 110" highpower, the RS1 will be viewed on that screen and the 125" diagonal highpower scope screen will play host to the marantz 11-s1 with Isco 3 lens, which brings me to my next request. I have heard previously about some setup tips for installing and setting up the lens I believe it was Vern Diaz who posted it, in any case if anyone has helpful proven procedures that we can follow that would be great so when we get to that part of the install we have some idea of where to start, thanks in advance.
post #2 of 26
I have seen a post from Vern giving very detailed instructions on how to set up the ISCO, and I'm pretty sure it was on this forum. A search would probably find it. If I get a little extra time, I'll try to find it.

EDIT: Here is one such post. Vern Dias post.
post #3 of 26
Link not working.
post #4 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by EAS View Post

Link not working.

Sorry about that. Should be working now.
post #5 of 26
Thread Starter 
yep its working thanks
post #6 of 26
Thread Starter 
well a big thanks to my friend Jeremy (agrsiv95 ) who showed up friday night to help me install the 125" diagonal dalite highpower screen and Isco 3 lens, since this was a custom install most things had to be fabricated from scratch including a new mounting point for the Marantz 11-s1 and Isco 3 lens, the dalite highpower screen had to also share the front wall with a dalite highpower electric screen so placement was pretty crucial, we started the install roughly 8:30 pm on friday night and called it quits 6:30am saturday morning, we got the screen installed, mount for pj and lens fabricated and installed, Jeremy took the lead in the install and he will be checking this thread for some advice that you may have for us, the Isco lens is approx 12' 7 inches from the screen and the pj lens is approx just over 13' from the screen, we can get a perfect 16x9 image on the screen but when we put the lens in place we get pincushioning on top and bottom, he tried everything to try and dial out the pincushiong including rotating the Isco lens but nothing seems to be able to work, we feel that we can get a better result althought it may take some time and some advice from someone who has a lot of experience with this, Im sure Alan,Vern and maybe Cavx my chime in so I decided to take some pics of the setup and the test pattern to show what we are getting, we have used the test pattern in the marantz and also dve with no luck in obtaining a perfect rectangular image, I will say that even though the test pattern say that we are off in our setup of the Isco, watching a clips from a movie(seabuscuit) looks like nothing really wrong and looks great however I know that the lens can be dialed in better than what it is, Ill post some pics and feel free to let me know what you think. thanks in advance
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post #7 of 26
Thread Starter 
as you can see from one of the pics above we are able to achieve a good 16x9 test pattern, here are some more shots of the equipment and how its setup
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post #8 of 26
Thread Starter 
although we dont have perfect geometry according to the test pattern image still looks good, a testiment to the Isco im sure, focus on test patterns seem to be off on the left side of the screen as well but not very noticeable in an image so we are wondering what we are doing wrong, any ideas? again forum member Agrisv95 is taking the lead on my install and he is determined to get it right so he may be asking questions as well
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post #9 of 26
You have roll, pitch, and yaw on both the lens and the projector so it's tricky to get a perfectly optimal alignment between your three elements (projector/lens/screen). Be aware that often the opposite movement than what you would think is the correct one. If focus is off on the left or right side, that sounds like a yaw adjustment issue. If possible try moving (twisting) the projector if moving the lens is not helping. I found that I needed to make small ajustments to the projector as well as the lens to get the best alignment. Just keep at it, you will get it.
post #10 of 26
Thread Starter 
we did try twisting the pj and although he had some success we still could not dial it in completey, I doo agree that we need to keep at it
post #11 of 26
From your images, it looks like pincushion is not that bad anyway. But this is where you may find out if you really do need that curved screen. From what I am seeing here, I'd say your OK with a flat screen.

Keep up the good work...

Mark
post #12 of 26
I hope you manage to improve on this problem funlvr1965.

I'll be following the thread with interest: my dream is a CIH set up using the JVC projector (RS1 or next year's version) on a 113" diag (105" wide) 2:35:1 screen. I estimate throw distance to be about 13 1/2 feet including an anamorphic lens. Hopefully I could gather funds for an ISCO 3 lens.

Would anyone with experience like to offer whether my screen size/throw distance/ISCO 3 lens sounds like it would work, or whether my set up would be in any way challenging as far as dealing with pin-cushioning?

Thanks.
post #13 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVX View Post

From your images, it looks like pincushion is not that bad anyway. But this is where you may find out if you really do need that curved screen. From what I am seeing here, I'd say your OK with a flat screen.

Keep up the good work...

Mark

Mark thats what makes this so nutty, going by the test patterns alone It seemed like at times we were way off but by looking at the images themselves it looks quite acceptable to me at the moment however Jeremy and I have that nagging feeling that there is more to be squeezed out from this great lens, constant height experience is really addicting, I rolled down my 16:9 dalite screen in front and it looked like a 4:3 screen in comparison, we will keep at the geometry issue, im sure that edge to edge focus and geometry have room for further tweaking but so far to my naked eye it looks very good im sure due to the good glass in the Marantz and the Isco
post #14 of 26
If you can master the test patterns with this lens, then all of your video is going to look amazing. I am watching this thread with great interest

Mark
post #15 of 26
Thread Starter 
at the moment we would like to get back to basics, first and foremost we want to understand the test patterns used for setting the image correctly, I have been told in the past that using the test pattern inside the pj isnt the best way to set your anamorphic lens, so can anyone tell us exactly what source is generally accepted as suitable for setting up an anamorphic lens? should we be using the crosshatch patterns in dve,avia etc? we just want to know so we understand that our patterns are appropriate for the anamorphic stretch
post #16 of 26
For best results, you want a crosshatch pattern with lines no more than 1 pixel in width. I use my HTPC with a software package called DisplayMate.

The are only four questions you need to ask yourself:

1. Is the pattern square with perfectly horizontal top and bottom edges and perfectly vertical sides and does the center of the image fall at the center of the screen?

2. Do the vertical and horizontal lines focus perfectly at the same point in the projectors focus range, or do the horizontal and vertical lines focus at separate points in the propjectors focus range?

3. Does the pattern measure ~2.37 multiplied by the pattern's height wide?

4. Do you have pincushion in your image?

Answers to the questions:

1A. Level and center the image from the projector without the anamorphic lens installed to meet test #1. Then, without changing the projector position, adjust the anamorphic lens (rotation and tilt)to meet test #1.

2A. Adjust the astigmatism control (the "focus" ring on the front of the Isco) (most, if not all prism type lens don't have this option) to meet test #2.

3A. Nothing you can do about this. (Except installing the projector and lens before you order the screen).

4A. Buy or build a curved screen (or live with it by hiding it with the masking).

Vern
post #17 of 26
Thread Starter 
Vern since we dont use a htpc is there a dvd based test pattern we can use that you can recommend?
post #18 of 26
Nope.

DVD test paterns can't possibly be 1 (display) pixel wide.

There may be some HD test patterns floating around on the internet, but you'll still need a PC to burn them to disc. Anything that is lower res than the native res of the display will be fuzzy, which makes it much harder to accurately adjust astigmatism.

Vern
post #19 of 26
It does not have to be a HTPC per se. Any PC or notebook that can output the correct resolution for your projector would work for the test pattern. You are just hooking it up temporarily to generate a test pattern.

Just thought I would mention that.

Laters,
Jeff
post #20 of 26
Thread Starter 
it cant possibly be this difficult, how come ive never heard anyone having trouble finding test patterns before? everyone cant be using htpcs
post #21 of 26
Lumagen and DVDO scalers have test patterns built in. I don't know what percentage of CIH people have these scalers, but I'm guessing it is quite high. Your only options are patterns from: HTPC, a scaler, a homemade HD-DVD test disk (I have this and it works), or the projector. I'm not sure why there would be a blanket statement that projector patterns don't work, I can see how there might be some defective projector test patterns, but there is no technical reason why a projector generated test patterm can not work correctly.
post #22 of 26
The test patterns I found essential to fine tune my ISCO III were the Lumagen's internal on/off alternating line patterns. These two patterns give you on/off alternating lines in both the horizontal and vertical direction. With these two patterns it makes it *very* easy to see when astig is off in any of the corner quadrants and in any direction because the lines blur together. You simply adjust the lens until all alternating lines are uniformly defined and visible across the entire screen. Not sure what scaler you have but you might try to locate a similar pattern.

Mark
post #23 of 26
Thread Starter 
lol just sold my lumagen but my Anthem D1 is at Anthem getting upgraded to D2 Status with Gennum vp, hopefully it will have the necessary test patterns
post #24 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vern Dias View Post

For best results, you want a crosshatch pattern with lines no more than 1 pixel in width. I use my HTPC with a software package called DisplayMate.

Vern

There are multiple versions of Displaymate on their website. Which version is the best for setting up an anamorphic lens?
post #25 of 26
Is there a lens/scaler setup that stretches all areas the same amount? That is, are the crosshatch boxes always wider the farther (horizontally) they are from screen center?
post #26 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by nowandthen View Post

There are multiple versions of Displaymate on their website. Which version is the best for setting up an anamorphic lens?

When I was a HT PC junky I use to use Displaymate all the time. I think there was a free demo version which worked great. Lots of good stuff. Looking at their web site today I see there are lots of options. Confusing as to which one to choose.
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