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Any Info on Joe Kane TVS Pro D6500 Reference?

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
I came across this video greyscale reference tool on the Joe Kane Video Essentials site:
http://www.videoessentials.com/TVSPro.php

There is no pricing or availability on it. Does anyone have any info on it?

-JD
post #2 of 17
It has been out of production for years. I'm not sure if they are going to produce them again. They used to cost about $900.
post #3 of 17
Thread Starter 
$900...ouch. I wonder what the profit margin was on that - $899? Oh, well...

Thanks for the info.

-JD
post #4 of 17
You're forgetting the cost of the labor of the people needed to put the images and coding together. At $50/hour (pretty standard for good technical people around here) and a minimum of 80 hours needed to put it all together, (not including the testing and validation time - probably a month or more), the "profit margin" is actually very small (it's not a high volume seller).
post #5 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by CT_Wiebe View Post

You're forgetting the cost of the labor of the people needed to put the images and coding together. At $50/hour (pretty standard for good technical people around here) and a minimum of 80 hours needed to put it all together, (not including the testing and validation time - probably a month or more), the "profit margin" is actually very small (it's not a high volume seller).

it takes 80 hrs to put that together?? HOLY MOLY!!!...now i see why they dont make a profit or sell them any more..
post #6 of 17
Working part time, and with the help of numerous beta testers, it took GetGray 5 months to produce his Caldisc (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post7178409). The money (a small contribution) he is asking for it doesn't begin to compensate him for his effort, or those of us that have donated our efforts for our own and other AVS members benefit.
post #7 of 17
Thread Starter 
Well, I was just joking about the profit margin, because it looks like a light inside a box with an LED on the side for $900 - but I know it is not. And if you could mass market it (unlikely!), and easily make up the R&D costs, it could be WalMart-ized and manufactured overseas for a buck a piece.

And it would break after a week.

-JD
post #8 of 17
If it were sold by WalMart, it would have to last at least until the return period ended .
post #9 of 17
It had no connection with Joe or Joe Kane Productions when it was current. It was built in Indianapolis, hand made, and used a very expensive set of LEDs to achieve the consistent accuracy needed as a reference product.

JKP does have a service to recalibrate (to a reference) the units in the field to spec, so they can still be used.

If they were so profitable, they would still be made, as a small portable reference is still needed by the calibration industry. Most of us now are lugging around PVM96's instead.
post #10 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coyotes View Post

It had no connection with Joe or Joe Kane Productions when it was current. It was built in Indianapolis, hand made, and used a very expensive set of LEDs to achieve the consistent accuracy needed as a reference product.

JKP does have a service to recalibrate (to a reference) the units in the field to spec, so they can still be used.

If they were so profitable, they would still be made, as a small portable reference is still needed by the calibration industry. Most of us now are lugging around PVM96's instead.


no doubt - you can make one for $30.00 (but as a paid member at the SPot - CRAIGR has the how-to posted there) - doesnt look nothing like the TVSPro but it same idea.

All I think you need is an old VHS tape, greyscale cards (not sure which one) and a 6500K small lamp to put in it..
post #11 of 17
there is the "desire for the hobbiest" and there is the "need for the professional".

The TVS piece is even calibratible. I sent mine off a few months ago to get recalibrated. It had shifted to a slightly green shade of white. It is not just a light in a case.
post #12 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregg Loewen View Post

there is the "desire for the hobbiest" and there is the "need for the professional".

The TVS piece is even calibratible. I sent mine off a few months ago to get recalibrated. It had shifted to a slightly green shade of white. It is not just a light in a case.


for $900 or so..I sure hope not...that would be the rip-off the century..
post #13 of 17
I wonder how long it took the HCFR group to put together their disc and it's free.
post #14 of 17
Thread Starter 
Rich, I found that DIY link, and as you said, that part of *************** charges a fee.

CraigR is a professional (http://www.cir-engineering.com/), so it would be interesting to see what he came up with, but you can't even get into the link to see the results from DIY'ers and pros. Per his site, his comparator is "used to double check the gray tracking of a display in order to make certain that the color meter is giving accurate results." So it would seem he is using it to validate the results of his PR-650, CP5000, and i1 Pro for various display technologies - that's impressive.

I think I will save a TVS Pro search on eBay, you never know...

-JD
post #15 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdbimmer View Post

Rich, I found that DIY link, and as you said, that part of *************** charges a fee.

CraigR is a professional (http://www.cir-engineering.com/), so it would be interesting to see what he came up with, but you can't even get into the link to see the results from DIY'ers and pros. Per his site, his comparator is "used to double check the gray tracking of a display in order to make certain that the color meter is giving accurate results." So it would seem he is using it to validate the results of his PR-650, CP5000, and i1 Pro for various display technologies - that's impressive.

I think I will save a TVS Pro search on eBay, you never know...

-JD


I use to have access for years as the paid member but I hardly lurk through there anymore...but I remember reading it a couple of times..and back then - I had no idea what greyscale even meant..
post #16 of 17
You can get a PVM 96 from B&H for $250. It will show you every shade of the Grayscale that is in the image, show you the image, show you moving images, and has D65 phosphor, so it is virtually stable and resisitant to change. It can be used to check instrumentation as well.

Why would you want to use something that is at one or two points?
post #17 of 17
Consumer cynicism is a fact of life in our culture because so many of us have been short changed and ripped off by cheap goods sold at high prices and marketing promises never kept. The TVSPro optical comparator was a unique, pricise, versatile and elegantly designed tool. It could deliver a SMPTE spec D65 (not merely 6500K) high and low level optical reference, as well as D54 high and low, in a compact, hand held, light weight device. It also would display red, green and blue primaries but only in a rapid cycle.

LEDs have very good spectral power distribution. The TVSPro used a multi-color LED array with electronic mixing control to achieve reference white points. The case was composed of telescoping aluminum extrusions that resulted in a very durable, professional, lab-grade instrument. Any suggestion that it was over priced only reveals a lack of understanding on many levels.

The ISF and JKP have asked me to develop a 10-step, D65, gray scale, optical comparator at a more approachable price. I've been working on this concept for years already. Thus far I've produced one prototype that was way too large, fragile and heavy to be practical, but performed well technically. It's very challenging to develop a new instrument on a miniscule budget, especially when parts suppliers keep changing their products and methods. Any hobbyist can cob together a rough optical comparator with non-reference parts to achieve "ball park" results. A professional device with truly reference performance is another story.

I can help anyone put together a temporary solution that is more accurate than the PVM96, at near its price. Samples of the PVM96 I've seen measured with various instruments have revealed it to not provide a true D65 reference. It's close but not quite close enough. However, my solution would require some DIY fabrication effort. Send me an e-mail if you're interested, no PMs please.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"
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