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Chicago, IL - OTA - Page 374

post #11191 of 12036
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave73 View Post

I just waiting to hear if WLS-TV will pick up Live with Kelly, since WGN-TV's contract is up next year, & WLS-TV sees Live with Kelly a threat to Windy City Live at 9am. So they want to acquire the show & put it on at a different time. Our luck, if history repeats itself, it'll end up on during the overnight hours, like it did when the show was Live with Regis & Kathie Lee.

On this Robert Feder Blog this past May, WLS will carry Live With Kelly next season in September 2013. Since the seven other ABC O&Os air it at 9am after GMA, more in likely Live will end up airing at 9am. The question remains, will Windy City Live will either go on a different timeslot or get cancelled entirely? I do agree with you that it would've made a ton of sense that Katie Couric would be better for 2pm and leave its longtime syndies on at 3pm.
Edited by csworldwide1 - 8/27/12 at 5:33am
post #11192 of 12036
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Molnar View Post

I have a VHF-high yagi with Winegard VHF preamp but local FM and 2-ways caused issues with overload and when I tried a VHF 7-13 highband filter ahead of the preamp it had too much insertion loss so I use a ch.12 bandpass there instead and get my WLS-TV from r.f.44. Are you sure abouth r.f.7 from Sears? I though there was a big to-do this summer when they removed that old CP antenna by helicopter and gently droped onto a truck on the ground. I even heard something about a section being preserved for a permanent display.

WLS-TV removed their VHF antenna from the east tower, but the original VHF antenna (circular polarized) from 1973 is still on the west tower. Their STA is for that antenna, while the STA for UHF is for the John Hancock again, while a new UHF antenna gets installed, where the VHF antenna used to be on the east tower. WLS-TV could have moved the VHF transmission back to the John Hancock, which was their original backup site for analog, but since the STA is already in place for the VHF circular polarized antenna on the west tower of the Sears Tower, they're not gonna change it. The plan for them is to get RF 44 working, so RF 7 can be shut off at their end. However, RF 7 (if WLS-TV ever gets RF 44 working) could get used by a low power station at a later date. I still believe a UHF translator would have made more sense, & less headache than this mess of trying to get RF 44 working.
post #11193 of 12036
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave73 View Post

In order to get WOCK-CD requires an outdoor antenna, & in most cases, a pre-amp in order to get their puny 300 watt signal. Rabbit ears simply won't cut it with this station, unless you're possibly that close to the John Hancock, then even that's a problem. I get them in Gary, IN on my Antennacraft CS600 antenna & RCA pre-amp, model# TVPRAMP1R. During the summer months, it doesn't always stay steady at 300 watts like it did when they were at 810 watts. If this station could boost their power to more than 1kw, they might have a chance reaching those users with outdoor antennas. I can guarantee you that whenever Venture Technologies decides to convert WKQX-LP to digital (not likely before 2015), their CP for 3kw will reach more people than WOCK ever will operating at 300 watts. I got WBBM-TV when their digital was on RF 3 at 2.8kw, & I was not using a pre-amp at the time either (almost no breakups either).

Wife wants to get in this Mundo Fox on 13.1 also. I can get in the signal on shorter runs, but not on the longer ones. Am using an outdoor yagi on 2 story roof, so I get good signal capture.

Problem is we are only 16 miles from the Hancock, so other stations we get strong signal and I am told if you over amp the signal it can cause noise or worse null out the strong signal stations.

So I am thinking I might need to only add a preamp on the longer runs and an attenuator to dial it down if necessary. Anyone take this approach? Equip used and success?
Or would this instead be just an amp since I am adding it further down the run to amp up the signal and not at source like a per-amp does.
post #11194 of 12036
Got on the roof a couple weekends ago with Dad and got our a/b splitter configuration going. Both of our antennas were hooked up to a splitter in reverse eek.gif so I took the Chicago antenna off of that and fed it into the splitter & left the Rockford antenna on it (only had 1 RF extender so it went to the CHI) & added a 25ft cable to the RFD to go into the a/b splitter. I finally got WGN and WYCC, as well as WC40N back, but all are sporadic at times during the day. I also get all my Rockford stations without having to switch antennas, so now it's now the Chicago/Rockford and Madison antennas now. cool.gif
post #11195 of 12036
What's even on W40CN?

- Trip
post #11196 of 12036
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

What's even on W40CN?
- Trip

Waubonsee Community College tv station from Sugar Grove I believe.
post #11197 of 12036
Thread Starter 
Correct, for the moment. It's been sold to the folks who run the LP 40 in Chicago. Waubonsee airs basketball games, telecourses, and a night, offers what would be best decsribed as the old "Night Owl" service that WFLD-TV 32 used to have years ago, except with much better graphics....IE, graphics of news, sports, weather, traffic in an endless slideshow...with background music.
post #11198 of 12036
So with W40CN, WESV, and WHCH, how many stations are using RF40 in this DMA?  Or is WHCH gone?
post #11199 of 12036
WHCH is gone. So that leaves two.

Thanks for the replies on W40CN. Wasn't sure if the programming had changed yet, not that I knew what it was to start with. smile.gif

- Trip
post #11200 of 12036
And now comes the time of year when not getting WBBM-TV actually matters - with them having a couple of Bears games. And the season opener, of course!

Are they ever going to fix the mind numbingly bad situation they are in? I would have bet they would have addressed this by now. How are they not totally embarrassed by this?



Im 40+ miles outside Chicago in a condo complex (so no roof antennas) and nobody gets them out this far without a substantial setup. I have a Terk HDTVa that I bought around four years ago that gets most everything. Having said that, is there anything of the indoor variety that is better? I haven't kept up with things.
post #11201 of 12036
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrgoodkat View Post
Im 40+ miles outside Chicago in a condo complex (so no roof antennas) and nobody gets them out this far without a substantial setup. I have a Terk HDTVa that I bought around four years ago that gets most everything. Having said that, is there anything of the indoor variety that is better? 

 

For WBBM, not really.

 

About the only thing worth trying indoors otherwise is an outdoor model, preferably that's specifically designed to receive hi-VHF.

 

But unless you can get it up high enough, even that's not likely to work dependably. Maybe if you're on higher ground to begin with, though.


Edited by Rammitinski - 9/2/12 at 2:09pm
post #11202 of 12036
I can second that. The HDTVa, while a great indoor UHF antenna, has not been all that good in my experience at tuning in VHF signals at 40-60 miles out, even though it does tune in UHF at that distance readily.

Edit: The HDTVa still seems to be the top of the line for directional non-attic use. There's the Mohu Leaf, but that's omnidirectional, and I'm not sure if it even does VHF.
post #11203 of 12036
The VHF dipoles on the HDTVi (unamplified HDTVa) had barely enough length for me to get a glimmer of WBBM when they were on 3, but I had to put them vertical in an upstairs room. You won't find a store bought indoor antenna with longer rods.
post #11204 of 12036
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

For WBBM, not really.

About the only thing worth trying indoors otherwise is an outdoor model, preferably that's specifically designed to receive hi-VHF.

But unless you can get it up high enough, even that's not likely to work dependably. Maybe if you're on higher ground to begin with, though.

I am on the 2nd floor so that helps. Or I imagine it does. Ive thought about doing something in the attic, but not just for WBBM, which I would likely not watch much to begin with.

There are a bunch of antenna choices that I do not remember from 4-5 years ago. The issue is finding reviews and trusting the effective distance the manufacturer gives to them. Which of course always seems to be well under what you can achieve. The whole thing is a mess for those of us without the ability to mount an antenna on a roof.


Does anyone actually have any info as to whether they are ever going to get this straightened out? I mean this is just comically bad at this point. Do they have any idea how many people they lost? I mean I know people who have trouble getting them 15-20 miles away from the city, with the HDTVa, and they get everything else. You'd think the WBBM-TV brass would act at some point...
post #11205 of 12036
Thread Starter 
If you want a full-power UHF from WBBM, it'll never happen. I can lock it easily 60 miles out wwith a big VHF-only attic antenna from DeKalb, and..as long as that happens...
it's good enough. Maybe the 15 kilowatt UHF repeater will come on, but I wouldn't count on it...
post #11206 of 12036
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebenste View Post

If you want a full-power UHF from WBBM, it'll never happen. I can lock it easily 60 miles out wwith a big VHF-only attic antenna from DeKalb, and..as long as that happens...
it's good enough. Maybe the 15 kilowatt UHF repeater will come on, but I wouldn't count on it...

I can guarantee you that CBS will get their translator on the air at some point. At this point, there are no open UHF channels that WBBM-TV could go to for full power. The only channel that is a possibility is 23, but it's currently tied up by Class A analog station WWME-CA. Since Weigel Broadcasting is trying to hold out on deciding whether 23 or 39 will be the permanent home for WWME, it will be up to 3 more years before we know which channel will be the permanent home for WWME (I say up to 3 more years, because the analog transmitter could go out before September 2015). After that, WBBM-TV might have a shot (if UHF doesn't get repackaged before then) at getting a UHF channel, should WWME stay on 39 to become WWME-CD. For now, the translator is their best solution for those in the city & nearby suburbs. Unfortunately, it mainly covers the south suburbs, while having a sharp null to the north & northwest, primarily to protect WKOW Madison Wisconsin, but to a lesser extent, WCGV Milwaukee. For me, an outdoor antenna is an option at my home, & in my case, it's mandatory, since rabbit ears don't work for any station inside my house. So I get WBBM-TV on my Antennacraft CS600 VHF antenna, along with WLS-TV on RF 7. Having a pre-amp, I also get WOCK-CD with that same antenna, but the warmer weather is wreaking havoc on their signal in Gary, IN. Once it cools off, WOCK-CD will be fine again. 300 watts doesn't cut it. Now whenever WBBM-TV gets their translator on the air, I wonder how well I'll receive it, & if it could received well enough to eventually drop the VHF antenna (not likely since I watch WOCK-CD 13.4 on occasion, when it isn't pixelating, & only when WLS-TV can get their UHF antenna working properly on the Sears Tower).
post #11207 of 12036
CBS shoulw just buy WJYS as a second channel like CBS has done in NYC and LA and then 'flip.'
post #11208 of 12036
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Molnar View Post

CBS shoulw just buy WJYS as a second channel like CBS has done in NYC and LA and then 'flip.'

Right now, I'm not sure Jovon Broadcasting is interested in selling WJYS. Depending on the status of Tribune getting out of bankruptcy, WGN-TV might be for sale. I personally don't want to see CBS getting their hands on that station, but if they did get WGN-TV, they could probably get the stations licenses swapped, maybe along with swap the virtual channels (I don't know about that one). I know that would solve the viewership problem for CBS, though it would create a problem if WGN-TV went to 12. I know that WBBM-TV's OTA viewership problem isn't as severe as WLS-TV's viewership is, since WLS-TV wasn't granted enough power to begin with, & most complaints were in the city & suburbs for WLS-TV, & primarily in the city for WBBM-TV. Besides, WGN-TV has a more powerful UHF signal than WJYS does. With an outdoor antenna used indoors at work in Merrillville Indiana, I could get WGN-TV in the brick/metal shack, but WJYS pixelated, or didn't come in at all.
post #11209 of 12036
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave73 View Post

Right now, I'm not sure Jovon Broadcasting is interested in selling WJYS. Depending on the status of Tribune getting out of bankruptcy, WGN-TV might be for sale. I personally don't want to see CBS getting their hands on that station, but if they did get WGN-TV, they could probably get the stations licenses swapped, maybe along with swap the virtual channels (I don't know about that one). I know that would solve the viewership problem for CBS, though it would create a problem if WGN-TV went to 12. I know that WBBM-TV's OTA viewership problem isn't as severe as WLS-TV's viewership is, since WLS-TV wasn't granted enough power to begin with, & most complaints were in the city & suburbs for WLS-TV, & primarily in the city for WBBM-TV. Besides, WGN-TV has a more powerful UHF signal than WJYS does. With an outdoor antenna used indoors at work in Merrillville Indiana, I could get WGN-TV in the brick/metal shack, but WJYS pixelated, or didn't come in at all.

CBS can't buy WGN since it's actually running ahead of WFLD, meaning that if CBS bought the station, they would own 2 of the top 4 stations, which isn't allowed by the FCC.

They'd also run into an issue since they'd most likely have to buy the other Tribune stations, creating duopolies and triopolies which may or may not be allowed depending on the market.
post #11210 of 12036
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgmv123 View Post

CBS can't buy WGN since it's actually running ahead of WFLD, meaning that if CBS bought the station, they would own 2 of the top 4 stations, which isn't allowed by the FCC.
They'd also run into an issue since they'd most likely have to buy the other Tribune stations, creating duopolies and triopolies which may or may not be allowed depending on the market.
WGN also has a fairly impaired signal by DTVs on r.f. ch. 19 in Madison and Grand Rapids. Can CBS engineers improve WJYS any?
post #11211 of 12036
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Molnar View Post

WGN also has a fairly impaired signal by DTVs on r.f. ch. 19 in Madison and Grand Rapids. Can CBS engineers improve WJYS any?

If Jovon Brodcasting were to sell WJYS, it might be possible for CBS to get a power increase. Doing so would mean that WMVS's translator on RF 36 could be forced off the air. MPTV has had similar complaints from some people not being able to get them on RF 8, that they not only got a CP for a translator on RF 36, but for now, have a widescreen SD simulcast of WMVS on WMVT 36.2. If the sale of WJYS to CBS to actually happen, then a power increase for WJYS took place, then that will be a blow to MPTV, since they worked hard to get the translator on the air, & would have to look for a different channel. Providing that MPTV reused the old channel 36 antenna, then it was cheaper for MPTV to get WMVS's translator on the air by just getting a new transmitter & any other equipment, than to have a new antenna installed, along with a new transmitter & other necessary equipment.
post #11212 of 12036
hello:

just recently i have begun having a problem with wls 7.1 but 7.2 is still strong. did something change?
post #11213 of 12036
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Molnar View Post

WGN also has a fairly impaired signal by DTVs on r.f. ch. 19 in Madison and Grand Rapids. Can CBS engineers improve WJYS any?

George,

Even with those limitations, 600 kw omnidirectional on top of Willis (except over the lake, and, well, that's fine) blasts that signal out to DeKalb reliably 99% of the time. It would be a vast improvement over what WBBM has now. But, again, I very seriously doubt a buyout would happen, as far as my thought to the original poster.

WJYS could go omnidirectional now...it's unimpeded by 36 in Milwaukee, except for a low power signal they put on there. But they could go full power and bump them off. But again, you're talking many millions of dollars with a (sadly, for now) relatively small OTA audience. The investment return just wouldn't be worth it.
post #11214 of 12036
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebenste View Post

George,
Even with those limitations, 600 kw omnidirectional on top of Willis (except over the lake, and, well, that's fine) blasts that signal out to DeKalb reliably 99% of the time. It would be a vast improvement over what WBBM has now. But, again, I very seriously doubt a buyout would happen, as far as my thought to the original poster.
WJYS could go omnidirectional now...it's unimpeded by 36 in Milwaukee, except for a low power signal they put on there. But they could go full power and bump them off. But again, you're talking many millions of dollars with a (sadly, for now) relatively small OTA audience. The investment return just wouldn't be worth it.
Yes, you're right about WGN blasting, except for the overlap between Chicago and Madison and for the overlap between Chicago and Grand Rapids where former viewers can't get WGN anymore. With OTA waning, can you suggest why CBS spent the money to buy that Long Island station to supplement their NYC flagship, like they already did in LA? I hear a lot about cable and satellite viewers not needing OTA, except that many of those providers depend upon OTA for their content. For example, our station has direct connections to Comcast and Uverse and Directv, but when the transmitter is off the air, greater than 40% of the households lose the signal, because their antenna or Dish or distant cable systems lack the direct connection. I recall that CBS made a run at ch.20's DTV spectrum, but the college wanted too much $. I wonder if that was a better deal in hindsight.
post #11215 of 12036
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Molnar View Post

Yes, you're right about WGN blasting, except for the overlap between Chicago and Madison and for the overlap between Chicago and Grand Rapids where former viewers can't get WGN anymore. With OTA waning, can you suggest why CBS spent the money to buy that Long Island station to supplement their NYC flagship, like they already did in LA? I hear a lot about cable and satellite viewers not needing OTA, except that many of those providers depend upon OTA for their content. For example, our station has direct connections to Comcast and Uverse and Directv, but when the transmitter is off the air, greater than 40% of the households lose the signal, because their antenna or Dish or distant cable systems lack the direct connection. I recall that CBS made a run at ch.20's DTV spectrum, but the college wanted too much $. I wonder if that was a better deal in hindsight.

I remember hearing something about it back in the pre-transitional digital days. It however would have required finding WYCC another channel to be on (if not just swap channels), since WYCC has a non-commercial license. Now if they had just swapped channels, then we'd be hearing people complaining that they can't get WYCC. As for WYCC's signal, I'm not sure how much more of a power increase could be done, as they have to protect WHA & a few others. Their signal is directional with most of it aimed SW. I know WYCC won't ask for an increase (I believe they barely get by as it is), but I'm mentioning this, had CBS been able to acquire WYCC's license, & more than likely give City Colleges Of Chicago their license (originally for RF 3) once the allocations were swapped to make 3 non-commercial & 21 commercial. I know in the analog days (around 1985 or 1986), Newsweb Corp. already held the WGMI license for Gary, IN, but never put it on the air, since it was for RF 56, & at that time, couldn't locate in Chicago. Since WCAE was already off the air, & Lake Central School System was looking to sell their license, Newsweb bought the license, got the paperwork set up to make 50 commercial (originally non-commercial) so it could locate in Chicago, & 56 non-commercial. Fox Corp. holds the original WCAE license, while Northwest Indiana Public Broadcasting holds the original WGMI license. That is true, because it wasn't easy to find on the FCC site, but the allocations were swapped between the 2 licenses. So the only thing that WYIN evolved from WCAE is that they're providing TV service to NW Indiana. Had WPWR-TV stayed on 60, 56 would have been deleted at some point, & the allocation deleted for digital TV.
post #11216 of 12036
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Molnar View Post

Yes, you're right about WGN blasting, except for the overlap between Chicago and Madison and for the overlap between Chicago and Grand Rapids where former viewers can't get WGN anymore. With OTA waning, can you suggest why CBS spent the money to buy that Long Island station to supplement their NYC flagship, like they already did in LA? I hear a lot about cable and satellite viewers not needing OTA, except that many of those providers depend upon OTA for their content. For example, our station has direct connections to Comcast and Uverse and Directv, but when the transmitter is off the air, greater than 40% of the households lose the signal, because their antenna or Dish or distant cable systems lack the direct connection. I recall that CBS made a run at ch.20's DTV spectrum, but the college wanted too much $. I wonder if that was a better deal in hindsight.

You make a good point, and in those markets, they obviously *did* think it was worth it. But. WBBM essentially *did* buy a TV station: WTTW-11. They bought their antenna and transmission facilities. I'm not sure they want to do that *again*. Hey, I'd love to be proven wrong on that! But, my hunch is that if they haven't gotten the translator on air in 2 years, they have no interest in a full power. Again, CBS, prove me horribly wrong! BTW, Northern Illinois University had them on their cable system for a while after the digital transition, but quite a few people complained that in the mornings, the signal wasn't there. They now carry an ugly, compressed SD signal from DirecTV and put it on their system in analog (ugh). To get CBS in HD, they have a UHF antenna pointed at Rockford to easily get WIFR-TV 23.1.

As for WYCC-20...I can't recall the figure I heard, but it was way up there in the millions. It was obvious they weren't going to sell it. If they had...they'd still be handicapped to some extent by surrounding 21s, including WHA in Madison.

WBBM might have gotten 44 if they complained to the FCC first and loudest. But WBBM on channel 3 had jaded so many of their viewers, that far fewer cared versus channel WLS-TV analog 7, which you could get anywhere.
Edited by sebenste - 9/7/12 at 7:08pm
post #11217 of 12036
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave73 View Post

I remember hearing something about it back in the pre-transitional digital days. It however would have required finding WYCC another channel to be on (if not just swap channels), since WYCC has a non-commercial license. Now if they had just swapped channels, then we'd be hearing people complaining that they can't get WYCC. As for WYCC's signal, I'm not sure how much more of a power increase could be done, as they have to protect WHA & a few others. Their signal is directional with most of it aimed SW. I know WYCC won't ask for an increase (I believe they barely get by as it is), but I'm mentioning this, had CBS been able to acquire WYCC's license, & more than likely give City Colleges Of Chicago their license (originally for RF 3) once the allocations were swapped to make 3 non-commercial & 21 commercial. I know in the analog days (around 1985 or 1986), Newsweb Corp. already held the WGMI license for Gary, IN, but never put it on the air, since it was for RF 56, & at that time, couldn't locate in Chicago. Since WCAE was already off the air, & Lake Central School System was looking to sell their license, Newsweb bought the license, got the paperwork set up to make 50 commercial (originally non-commercial) so it could locate in Chicago, & 56 non-commercial. Fox Corp. holds the original WCAE license, while Northwest Indiana Public Broadcasting holds the original WGMI license. That is true, because it wasn't easy to find on the FCC site, but the allocations were swapped between the 2 licenses. So the only thing that WYIN evolved from WCAE is that they're providing TV service to NW Indiana. Had WPWR-TV stayed on 60, 56 would have been deleted at some point, & the allocation deleted for digital TV.

Nice history, and you're right, of course. I remember WCAE when it was still on-air. On it's final day of broadcasting, the transmitter kept going on and off the air at random intervals, with a weaker than normal signal...and no audio carrier. It was showing nothing but old educational films that day...a whopping 4 hours worth.

Gilbert
Edited by sebenste - 9/12/12 at 11:37am
post #11218 of 12036
Good posts guys! Very informational!
post #11219 of 12036
I finally found a use for 7-2. Livwell.. The SEC Network is on Saturdays at 11am. You get 2nd rate SEC games but that's equivalent to a one of the better conference that can't count (Big Ten) games. WCIU must have lost out on the SEC network bidding this year. Now they have the Big East games. The HD during this afternoon's WLS-DT2 game was pretty good. Much better than what WCIU was doing the past 2-3 years.
post #11220 of 12036
Count the number of SEC teams in the top 25for week 1 and now week 2. Not sure how you could look down on that conference. The SEC has won the last 6 straight college football BCS championship games and 8 out of the 14 BCS games that have even happened since the start.
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