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Chicago, IL - OTA - Page 377

post #11281 of 12035
Thanks Rammitinski. Time to go shopping and spend some money.
post #11282 of 12035
'Tinski: by "hard reboot" do you mean cycling the power?  That actually does a soft reboot.  Since neither of those cleared the problem I had before, which was the reason I did the factory reset in the first place, and because a factory reset includes a soft reboot, I can't imagine that cycling the power nor doing a soft reboot from the remote would improve this, but I guess trying can't hurt.  In any case, that's something for the DTVPal DVR thread; here I'm asking only whether perhaps WBBM hasn't sent TVGOS info out for a few days.
post #11283 of 12035
Quote:
Originally Posted by dattier View Post

'Tinski: by "hard reboot" do you mean cycling the power?  That actually does a soft reboot.  Since neither of those cleared the problem I had before, which was the reason I did the factory reset in the first place, and because a factory reset includes a soft reboot, I can't imagine that cycling the power nor doing a soft reboot from the remote would improve this, but I guess trying can't hurt.  In any case, that's something for the DTVPal DVR thread; here I'm asking only whether perhaps WBBM hasn't sent TVGOS info out for a few days.

Dattier,
I also have been noticing some strange quirks w/ TVGOS on my DTVPal DVR (F208) over the past two weeks. I'm in Lombard and have my on-device zipcode set as Lombard's zip. The TV Guide icon still shows in guide, but I only have 7 day info for certain channels (WBBM, WMAQ, WGN, WTTW, WCIU, WFLD, WCPX; there may be others, but these are the ones that I regularly watch). WLS, WPWR, and others appear to only show PSIP data in the guide, though the time blocks on WLS are not always in 30 minute blocks (for instance, the 10pm news block shows 'no data', but lists 10-10:34 as the runtime; and there is a 3-hour 'no data' block on Saturday primetime, presumably for college football).

I noticed this about two weeks ago, when the clock on the DVR showed 11-something AM, and the actual time was 9-something PM. When I tried to change channels or watch a recording, the DVR froze, and I had to reboot. Since then, WLS data has been disappearing, and only WBBM goes out 7 days with data. Even WMAQ shows 'no description' for show details beyond 2 days.

Something quirky is certainly going on with WBBM's TVGOS transmissions, and I hope we're able to find a resolution soon.

-Rob
post #11284 of 12035
I never got a full week for WPWR even when TVGOS was functioning for me.  But right now I'm getting about a day and a half for NBC and Nonstop and less than a day for everything else, and no TVGuide logo.

But if you're still getting seven days ahead for any channel, then WBBM is sending it out, and the problem is with my DVR or with my settings of it, so I'm hoping for some answers to my post on the device's thread.
post #11285 of 12035
I was watching "Fringe" on Fox yesterday, and during the first 15-20 minutes, there were several translucent scrolls along the bottom about a 'broadcast test', with the audio cutting out and those digital tones. During one of the commercial breaks, the local commercials had no audio. This was via Comcast. By the time I was able to check via antenna, it didn't happen again. I did notice that there was no Fox Chicago logo on the bottom after that.

I was just wondering if it was WFLD itself? This also happened last week if I remember right. Maybe something in the Fringe broadcast is triggering something?
post #11286 of 12035

Happy Halloweenie, everyone.

 

Time to go send out the kids to pick up our yearly allotment of pins and razor blades now. smile.gif

post #11287 of 12035
What local station uses virtual channel 17?  No, I'm not confusing it with physical RF channel 17 (virtual 56) as in use by WYIN.

Twice so far I've turned on my DTVPal DVR to find that it added virtual channels 17.1 and 17.2, and both of their PSIP names are the very uninformative "DTV" with nothing more than those three characters.  Once the signal is lost -- and it always is by then -- the machine offers no means to find out the physical channel, and "DTV" for the PSIP names doesn't give any clues either.

I've checked rabbitears.info and there's no station listed there that uses virtual channel 17 in the Chicago market.  It could be occasional leakage from another market, but which one?  I'm located inside the city proper and wouldn't expect to receive signals from other DMAs.
Edited by dattier - 11/5/12 at 7:38pm
post #11288 of 12035
WTVO out of Rockford
post #11289 of 12035
Thank you, Dicko2, but that was so terse that I'm not sure if you were addressing my entire question.  Now that you meantion TWVO, I see on rabbitears.info (and on Wikipedia) that its signal is on RF16 specifying virtual 17.1 and 17.2, but does it use only "DTV" for the PSIP names of the its two channels?

Trying to find that out on my own; having no luck on the web nor in the Rockford OTA thread on AVS Forum.
 
Edited by dattier - 11/5/12 at 7:58pm
post #11290 of 12035
Thread Starter 
Sorry, been real busy here. You probably just got enough PSIP data to lock 17.1 and 17.2. 17.1 is WTVO-DT and 17.2 is MNTV. However...if you got tropospheric ducting, you could have nailed 17.1 and 17.2 in Grand Rapids, MI, a low-power station with 15 kilowatts. I have gotten them quite a few times over the last 3 years.

Gilbert
post #11291 of 12035
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebenste View Post

You probably just got enough PSIP data to lock 17.1 and 17.2. 17.1 is WTVO-DT and 17.2 is MNTV.
Odd that the unit would accept that and fill in default channel names; I'll ask on the device's thread.
Quote:
However...if you got tropospheric ducting, you could have nailed 17.1 and 17.2 in Grand Rapids, MI, a low-power station with 15 kilowatts.
According to rabbitears.info, the virtual 17 in Grand Rapids has a .3, and both times I've found this channel added, it had only .1 and .2.  The antenna is in a window facing south, so I wouldn't expect Rockford nor Grand Rapids to come in.  Then again, WPVN comes in on that antenna surprisingly often; they haven't moved downtown yet, have they?
post #11292 of 12035
Thread Starter 
No, they haven't. If it's pointed south, there's also WAND-DT 17.1 and 17.2 in Decatur at 1600' and 1 million watts...
post #11293 of 12035
Thank you, though Decatur is yet harder to imagine receiving here than Rockford.  I suppose a Rockford signal could be bouncing off something, but it's hard to figure what is reflecting it, given the positions of other buildings and things nearby.

Wherever it comes from, it's also difficult to explain just "DTV" and "DTV" for the channel names.  If the unit can decipher enough of the PSIP info to figure out the virtual channels, why can't it read the names?  Still too strange.
post #11294 of 12035
Is it a network or independent station? If it's a network, which one?
post #11295 of 12035
Quote:
Originally Posted by alnielsen View Post

Is it a network or independent station? If it's a network, which one?
Al, that's what I can't find out and it's part of what I'm asking.  The only ways to tell that would be to get full call letters, which I can't because there isn't a watchable signal [nor even a decodable one] any more by the time I get to the DVR, or, well, to see it for myself by, you guessed it, getting a watchable signal while I'm at the DVR.
post #11296 of 12035
Quick question for the OTA guys in Chicago.

I'm out in Lockport, and as most have, I have an issue with Channel 2 (WBBM). Heavily pixelated, and basically unwatchable. Every other channel comes in great (sometimes an issue with WPWR (Channel 50) out in Gary.

I'm assuming, and it's a pretty educated assumption that since I cheaped out on the antenna, that that is my issue. So before I fork out the cash for a new antenna, I wanted to run it by some of you just to make sure.

Current antenna is a Channel Master 2016. http://www.channelmaster.com/HD_television_antenna_Channel_Master_CM_2016_HDTV_Antenna_s/52.htm

Is it worth moving up to this antenna, as recommended in the beginning of this thread, or maybe go one bigger. http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=HD-7082P&d=Winegard-HD-7082P-High-Definition-VHF/UHF/FM-TV-Antenna-(HD7082P)&sku=615798317478&utm_campaign=base&utm_medium=organic&utm_source=google_base&more=yes

The antenna is mounted in the attic. This is NON-NEGOTIABLE as my association doesn't allow roof mounted antennas and you even need approval for a satellite dish.

So, I know I'm getting some loss from the attic mount. Just trying to get some feedback on what size to go with next. Space is at a premium, but I can definitely go a bit bigger than what I currently have.
post #11297 of 12035
Quote:
This is NON-NEGOTIABLE as my association doesn't allow roof mounted antennas and you even need approval for a satellite dish.

Your association is likely in violation of federal law. THAT is non-negotiable. It is up to you to either forfeit your legal rights or to express them. Your choice.

WBBM is tough for several reasons, mostly due to having a flea-power high-VHF signal. Such a signal is heavily affected by local electrical interference and often simply does not have sufficient energy to penetrate attics and building interiors after traveling out of the view of the Willis Tower.

If the rest the the signals come in fine, you may want to consider just adding a larger high-VHF only antenna such as the 5 or 10 element high-VHF Yagi antennas from either Winegard or AntennaCraft. If you want to stay small and compact, the Antennas Direct ClearStream 5 is an excellent although expensive option. The two antenna option is easy to do using a UHF/VHF combiner which, for example, the ClearStream 5 already includes in the box. Otherwise, they are only several dollars if ordering from Solid Signal.


The only advantage to going to an all-channel antenna like the 7082 is WOCK-CD which operates on VHF channel 4. If you don't care about it, then you can stay with something a lot smaller in size.
post #11298 of 12035
Does anyone know how does the Mitsubishi WD-65735 HDTV get its auto clock date data from?
since i think the analog/Digital tv conversion took place the auto clock feature hasnt been working.. i have to set it myself
or are the digital tv channels not sending out a time/date signal?
post #11299 of 12035
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProjectSHO89 View Post

Your association is likely in violation of federal law. THAT is non-negotiable. It is up to you to either forfeit your legal rights or to express them. Your choice.
WBBM is tough for several reasons, mostly due to having a flea-power high-VHF signal. Such a signal is heavily affected by local electrical interference and often simply does not have sufficient energy to penetrate attics and building interiors after traveling out of the view of the Willis Tower.
If the rest the the signals come in fine, you may want to consider just adding a larger high-VHF only antenna such as the 5 or 10 element high-VHF Yagi antennas from either Winegard or AntennaCraft. If you want to stay small and compact, the Antennas Direct ClearStream 5 is an excellent although expensive option. The two antenna option is easy to do using a UHF/VHF combiner which, for example, the ClearStream 5 already includes in the box. Otherwise, they are only several dollars if ordering from Solid Signal.
The only advantage to going to an all-channel antenna like the 7082 is WOCK-CD which operates on VHF channel 4. If you don't care about it, then you can stay with something a lot smaller in size.

Thanks a bunch.

Just ordered the Clearstream 5 from Amazon ($79.00) which still seems quite reasonable to me.

I'll come back and report either a success or lack thereof.
post #11300 of 12035
Here's the link to the FCC info page on the rule: http://www.fcc.gov/guides/over-air-reception-devices-rule

Bottom line: It's your house, and you can put an antenna on it.
post #11301 of 12035
Quote:
Originally Posted by minivanman View Post

Thanks a bunch.
Just ordered the Clearstream 5 from Amazon ($79.00) which still seems quite reasonable to me.
I'll come back and report either a success or lack thereof.

Send it back, and order a real TV antenna for just about the same price:

http://www.starkelectronic.com/winegard.htm#HD7695P

And, it will fit in your attic.
post #11302 of 12035
Would anyone like to inform me of the steps I would need to take to hook up my antenna to a DVR to my receiver? Or if this is even possible. I thought I saw this on here or the things I would need to purchase for this. I don't currently have cable hooked up as I don't watch the majority of the channels anyways.
Robert
post #11303 of 12035
I built my own DVR. Not a cheap option obviously, but it also stores all my movies, has Netflix, Hulu and any streaming service I want to partake in.

Plus I can have as many tuners as I want, and can build other frontends for other TVs that all connect to the DVR.

Then it's just a matter of routing the audio signal to your receiver.
post #11304 of 12035
I have read that the FCC may be more likely to give some of the upper UHF spectrum to data services, now that the election is over. That means some stations may have to move to VHF frequencies. There is also talk that there may be a limit to the number of stations allowed in a DMA.
If they decide to move to VHF, Getting a antenna that doesn't have VHF Low band, may be a problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by surf_fun85 View Post

Does anyone know how does the Mitsubishi WD-65735 HDTV get its auto clock date data from?
since i think the analog/Digital tv conversion took place the auto clock feature hasnt been working.. i have to set it myself
or are the digital tv channels not sending out a time/date signal?
I had a VCR that got it's time signal from the local PBS station. That was WTTW in most of our case.
post #11305 of 12035
Quote:
Originally Posted by lgdavis View Post

Send it back, and order a real TV antenna for just about the same price:
http://www.starkelectronic.com/winegard.htm#HD7695P
And, it will fit in your attic.

At 7 1/2 feet long, that would be tricky in my attic. The angle I have to direct it at, coupled with the roof framing would make that a last resort option. Plus, it would make navigating the attic quite difficult, and I do do some work up there, electrical mostly.

The final, final last resort is just watching CBS programming on Hulu. No "resort" involves going back to cable.

I'll run it past my wife about going on the roof. Thanks for that link cgmv123. She won't go for it. I'm asking that poor woman to give up an awful lot. She did lose her cable about a year ago. Now, I'd be asking her to give up some aesthetics. Plus she knows that antenna performance would actually be secondary to me just wanting to pick a fight with my association.
post #11306 of 12035
Quote:
Originally Posted by alnielsen View Post

I have read that the FCC may be more likely to give some of the upper UHF spectrum to data services, now that the election is over. That means some stations may have to move to VHF frequencies. There is also talk that there may be a limit to the number of stations allowed in a DMA.
If they decide to move to VHF, Getting a antenna that doesn't have VHF Low band, may be a problem.

I had to look it up. Don't know how accurate the info I found is, but it looks like 800 Mhz and above is already allocated for mobile services. Currently in Chicago, they could give another 100 Mhz to data services and we'd see no affect on OTA transmissions.

Currently the highest frequency station is WPWR (Channel 50) out of Gary, which operates on UHF channel 51. That equates to 695 Mhz.
post #11307 of 12035
Success. The Clearstream 5 brought in Channel 2 just fine.

Lost many of my UHF channels, so I did have to couple the old antenna for the UHF signals. Everything working great now.
post #11308 of 12035
Quote:
Originally Posted by alnielsen View Post

I have read that the FCC may be more likely to give some of the upper UHF spectrum to data services, now that the election is over. That means some stations may have to move to VHF frequencies. There is also talk that there may be a limit to the number of stations allowed in a DMA.
If they decide to move to VHF, Getting a antenna that doesn't have VHF Low band, may be a problem.
I had a VCR that got it's time signal from the local PBS station. That was WTTW in most of our case.

That's was in old analog tv days :-)
post #11309 of 12035

There have been several reallocations of spectrum over the years.

It used to be that UHF channels went up to channel 83. Then the highest RF channel was reduced to 69 and just a few years ago to 51.

 

Now, as I understand it, congress has authorized auctioning off more broadcast spectrum, so that only RF channels 2 through 30 will be left for TV.

However, there are supposedly protections in place so that broadcasters who want to remain broadcasters (and not just take their cut of the money from the auctions and get out of the broadcasting business) will be guaranteed a suitable new RF assignment.

 

I don't know how much it would cost the channels to convert their broadcasting towers to broadcast on the new channel assignments or how difficult it would be to "repack" the channels in  a way that avoids interference among channels.

 

The National Association of Broadcasters apparently was pleased with the final legislation, so maybe it will work out better than some have feared.

post #11310 of 12035
What I'd personally like to see the FCC do is assign Channels 5 and 6 to the FM band on a secondary basis. That's 12 MHz of newly available FM spectrum, and it could provide an upgrade path for FrankenFMs (since they're the current occupant of Channel 6 in markets that have one) to become full power FM stations. But this only works because of how sparsely used VHF-Lo is. If they reassign more spectrum to mobile usage, that prevents VHF-Lo from becoming an extended FM band and'll probably kill both TV and FM in the process.

A couple caveats. One, I don't want to see that new 12 MHz all be an extension to the 88 MHz to 92 MHz non-commercial band. Perhaps up to 6 MHz of it, preferably from Channel 5, so that FrankenFms don't have to become non-commercial. Two, the FrankenFM stations should have an expedited approval process, since they want to be primarily FM stations.

The advantage of assigning it on a secondary basis is that Channels 5 and 6 could still be used for television in markets where digital stations are already on 5 or 6. So it's not actually a reshuffling of the TV band.
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