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Why buy Plasma?

post #1 of 37
Thread Starter 
(Note: This is my opinion, take it for what it's worth.)

I'm a Panny Plasma owner and no expert, just your average consumer, though I follow the forums (which are invaluable). Feel free to disagree with my comments.

I've noticed lots of discussion about the pros and cons of each TV technology and come to some conclusions that may help some.

1) Plasma produces superior black levels;
LCD's, DLP's, etc have all improved, but I don't believe anyone is saying that they have surpassed plasma for detailed black levels. Some plasma brands and models are certainly better than others, but all have improved in the last couple of years. Some would say white level reproduction is more accurate too.

2) Plasma produces more "depth";
Boy, that's a subjective claim, but I've seen many posts here from those who have switched from LCD's and DLP's saying just that. More like "looking out a window". Perhaps not as sharp an image as LCD, but perhaps not as artificially sharp either.

3) Superior reproduction of SD material;
Even more subjective, but again voiced by many forum posters. It may not even matter in a few more years, but we aren't there yet. This has alot to do with guts of the set, maybe more than the display from what I've read, so you'll get what you pay for. For me, my Panny does an excellent job with SD broadcast and DVD. YMMV.

4) Superior off-angle viewing;
No contest here, 160+ degrees horizontal and vertical. LCD's are closing the gap, DLP's forget about it.

5) Superior fast action reproduction?
Maybe or maybe not, some swear by plasma, some by LCD. From what I've gathered, there was a time when LCD's with slower refresh rates had problems, not so much these days. You're choice.

6) Superior gaming platform?
Again, there are two camps swearing by their technology. Depends on what you want, some game platforms work better with one or the other, generally if you want near-neon, in your face brightness, stick with LCD. You decide.

7) What about Plasma burn-in?;
This has been covered here, there and everywhere ad-nausium. Despite all the concern about it, I still haven't come across any posts where someone has said they had permanent burn-in on a 2005-2007 plasma. Some have mentioned image retention issues with gaming that seems to go away after a few hours of normal viewing. The paranoia is probably here to stay though.

8) What about break-in?;
Some do, some don't, some use break-in discs. What ever makes you happy seems to work these days. I get the feeling that a lot of us are so addicted to this HD stuff that we aren't happy unless we have something to tweak, adjust, calibrate, break-in or mull over in our minds most of the time. I find myself constantly re-evaluating my TV and home theater and drooling over the Next Big Thing, even though all of my equipment is working fine, looking and sounding great!

9) What about 1080P?
People that know a lot more than I do say studies show 99 percent of us can't see the difference between a 50" 720P set and a 50" 1080P set at nine feet or more. That's what they call "spatial" resolution, without accounting for "temporal" resolution ---- see articles on the subject at Sound and Vision and CNet for more.
Then there are the issues with HD broadcast quality (fps) and DVD media quality (bitrate) that can help or hurt any image on any TV. Whether the set you choose has to down-convert or up-convert signals to match the native resolution of your display and how well it does it may be a problem with either.

So does it look better (1080P)?
Maybe, I know it looks nice playing on a Blu-Ray demo disc at the video store. Hard to tell whether it will look better at home. It shouldn't look any worse, but should I pay for it if I can't SEE it? Regardless, 1080P is here. LCD's, DLP's and a few plasmas with more to come. And it ain't cheap!

Is it worth it (1080P)?
Only you can say. If you NEED a 58" or bigger panel and you NEED to watch it from 10 feet or less then go for it. I personally won't sit in the first few rows at the movie theater, it's just too much image in my face! But do what works for you.

Finally,
I hope this helps newbies out with your decision. I also hope the Pros here will point out the flaws in my thinking so we can all benefit. The GOOD NEWS is, if you take home a brand name plasma most of you will be thrilled with your choice. I am!

Jim
post #2 of 37
Nice summation!
post #3 of 37
Nice post for those of us contemplating plasma.
How about adding...
10) What about plasmas in bright rooms? I.e. reflections.
11) What about humming/buzzing, especially at altitude (5000' for example)?
12) What about power consumption and heat output (screen seems to get rather hot)? Plasmas need a lot of ventilation so no good in a tight space, right?
13) What about dead/stuck pixels?
Those are potential barriers for some of us.
post #4 of 37
Great post. Should be a sticky.
post #5 of 37
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldorfSalad View Post

Nice post for those of us contemplating plasma.
How about adding...
10) What about plasmas in bright rooms? I.e. reflections.
11) What about humming/buzzing, especially at altitude (5000' for example)?
12) What about power consumption and heat output (screen seems to get rather hot)? Plasmas need a lot of ventilation so no good in a tight space, right?
13) What about dead/stuck pixels?
Those are potential barriers for some of us.

Thanks WaldorfSalad, you're right.

10) Yes, most if not all plasmas have mirror-like glass that reflects bright stuff in the room. Kind of like seeing your dashboard in the windshield while driving on a sunny day. May be a deal breaker for some, a non-issue for others that don't have a bright room. Some posters complain about sheen on LCD and DLP screens too, so it's important to take it into account with any display.

11) Yes, I've read that buzzing can be a problem, mine doesn't but others do. I've also read that LCD is much better for those at high altitude but I don't know if it's a plasma deal breaker. I'm at sea level so I never thought of it.

12) Yes, I think all plasmas draw more current than same size LCD or DLP sets, but my monthly power bills and KW consumption remains the same before and since plasma moved in. If heat output is significant, I haven't noticed. I keep my hands off the glass and the case on my Panny stays cool to touch after many hours on. My set is installed on a wall mount in my entertainment center with panels on 5 sides, but I wouldn't recommend no ventilation for any display.

13) Yes, some plasmas and some LCD's have dead or stuck pixels when new. I would consider it very important to ask the dealer what their policy is for returns due to this. Would be a PITA if ordered online with return shipping and all. I've heard that better manufacturers allow returns if more than one dead pixel occurs in or near the center viewing area but I'd hate to have to find out. I'm not at all sure how common it is either. My home and work LCD computer monitors (IBM and Dell) both have 1 stuck pixel near the bottom. So far the Panny is okay.

Thanks again,
Jim
post #6 of 37
I was in a local store the other day looking at a 50" Panasonic plasma. I'm going to return my Sony 50A2000 before my 30 days are up. As I was looking a sales drone came up and asked what my viewing habits were. I told him this is in the main TV room and is on about 6 hours in the evenings and 6 to 10 hours on the weekeneds depending if we are home or what sports are on. He said I should stay away from plasma and stick with LCD or DLP. He said the plasma would not be a good choice for a TV that will be on that much. Any thoughts on those words of wisdom?

I haven't heard that before and I'm going to take my 50A2000 back to CC tomorrow and will try and get something this weekend.

Thanks,

Jim
post #7 of 37
Thread Starter 
Panasonic claims the half-life of their current 9th generation plasma panels is 60,000 hours. That's something like 20 years at 8 hours per day. By half-life they mean until the panel emits half the light level of a brand new panel. If that's true or even close I think you'll be okay. On the other hand, LCD's and DLP's have light sources (bulbs) that will have to be replaced someday too. Something tells me whatever I own now won't be good enough anymore long before then anyway. Good luck with whatever you choose!
post #8 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by motoman View Post

I was in a local store the other day looking at a 50" Panasonic plasma. I'm going to return my Sony 50A2000 before my 30 days are up. As I was looking a sales drone came up and asked what my viewing habits were. I told him this is in the main TV room and is on about 6 hours in the evenings and 6 to 10 hours on the weekeneds depending if we are home or what sports are on. He said I should stay away from plasma and stick with LCD or DLP. He said the plasma would not be a good choice for a TV that will be on that much. Any thoughts on those words of wisdom?

I haven't heard that before and I'm going to take my 50A2000 back to CC tomorrow and will try and get something this weekend.

Thanks,

Jim

Nice. Has anyone ever heard a BB/CC person recommend plasma for anything? It's like their being paid extra to make you buy a LCD or DLP set. Maybe it's because of the 25:1 ratio of LCD/Plasma tv's in the store...
post #9 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Fat Cat View Post

It's like their being paid extra to make you buy a LCD or DLP set...

I have also gotten that impression. My father-in-law was at a CC store where some moron told him "don't get a plasma tv, they only last a couple of years..." Total ********, of course, but unfortunately my father-in-law BELIEVED HIM.
post #10 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimreeves View Post

Panasonic claims the half-life of their current 9th generation plasma panels is 60,000 hours. That's something like 20 years at 8 hours per day. By half-life they mean until the panel emits half the light level of a brand new panel. If that's true or even close I think you'll be okay. On the other hand, LCD's and DLP's have light sources (bulbs) that will have to be replaced someday too. Something tells me whatever I own now won't be good enough anymore long before then anyway. Good luck with whatever you choose!

Thanks for that info I appreciate it. I thought it was BS when he spewed it but thought I would check with the experts first. I could trade for another SXRD but the one I have now has the green tinge in faces,beards and hair and a very uneven black screen in between scenes so I'm really looking at a something else. I'm not a DLP fan and a quality LCD is to expensive. I've never looked at plasma very hard but I'll check a few more out this weekend. The 50A2000 gets boxed up tonight and back to CC.

Wish I wasn't so nervous about buying a plasma online but I just can't make myself do it. I read someplace the new Panasonic sets are pretty close so maybe I can hold out watching my 30" Sony till then.

By the way Jim your original post answered quite a few of my questions so thanks for the excellent information.


Jim
post #11 of 37
Nice job on providing information on plasma technology.

Chris
MountAVision.com
post #12 of 37
Mods Note:

Removed some posts because they were off topic.

Have a great day and be nice!

Dave
post #13 of 37
LCDs are always at maximum power consumption even when brightness is lowered to normal viewing levels.
Plasmas consume less power when brightness is lowered to normal viewing levels.
Power consumption should be compared at normal viewing levels.
post #14 of 37
Thread Starter 
Thanks Mojomojo, I've read similar info but wasn't sure. The way I understood it LCD produces contrast and brightness by either blocking its light source or passing it through so it actually uses the most power to block light in dark scenes. That explains why it's so hard to get deep blacks. Plasma generates its own light so it uses the most power producing bright scenes. I'm sure it's more technical than that but I figured it's a toss-up for my purposes.

Jim
post #15 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coressel View Post

I have also gotten that impression. My father-in-law was at a CC store where some moron told him "don't get a plasma tv, they only last a couple of years..." Total ********, of course, but unfortunately my father-in-law BELIEVED HIM.


And whats worse, they will try to argue you down if you disagree with them. These stores should really educate the employees better!
post #16 of 37
Haha I remember a few years ago always hearing BB and CC employees telling customers that plasmas leaked gas and needed to be refilled with their plasma gas every couple years.

I mean where the hell do they come up with this crap....
post #17 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctishue View Post

Haha I remember a few years ago always hearing BB and CC employees telling customers that plasmas leaked gas and needed to be refilled with their plasma gas every couple years.

I mean where the hell do they come up with this crap....


Lol, yeah and some of them still say that. I like to mess with them when they start that. "I always charge mine with Super Nean gas, it makes the color better....."
post #18 of 37
neon, oops
post #19 of 37
The retail stores you go to must have some idiots working there. Most around here are pretty knowledgeball.
post #20 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by T.J.K. View Post

The retail stores you go to must have some idiots working there. Most around here are pretty knowledgeball.


lol, yeah its not everyone of them, but every once in a while you will run into a few.
Thats true with every place though to an extent .
post #21 of 37
I just bought a Pioneer 50 inch plasma.

It has a gorgeous picture, but for me, just not big enough to totally immerse me in the movie (especially 2.35 display, which most DVDs are now). For my purposes, I should have gotten a projector (basement with light control, mostly movies).

With ceiling lights on behind me, I get reflection, so need to use a lamp and turn out lights, then I am fine.

No question, for daytime, or lighted room to watch TV, plasma will beat the projector I want.

Can't get a decent offer on the Pio, so I'll be watch plasma for a while now anyway
post #22 of 37
I see a trend where many micro display owners thinking about switching over to flat panels may be needing more than 50". I know that I fit that category. The 58" Panny is perfect and the 55" Hitachi also fits the bill. The Panny price @ B&M's still need to come down to entice the average buyer I think. Even on sale you're looking at a $1500 premium for an extra 8 inches. Some of the so called 2nd tier 60" plasmas are already under $3K.
post #23 of 37
Thank you all, especially Jim for pointing out the questions that I've been contemplating with. I am in the market for a 50" plasma, and after reading many invaluable posts, data, etc., i've pretty much thrown my hand up in the air Here's my take on this subject matter; we as humans will always want better and will do what it takes to get it. People worry about how long plasmas will live, reality is, most of us wont keep a tv for 20 years (life expectancy of plasma ), we'll sell it and get a new one within 5 years or put it in the garage and use it as a pingpong table. We all can sit here and debate and have a wish list of what we want and why manufacturers won't do this and that. Truth of the matter is, I'm sure most manufacturer's can make perfect tv's, but why? Can't give away the farm right? It's all about business and you can't continue to maintain a business if you don't "save" some for later right? I'm not trying to be a pessimiss, but trying not to involve my entire life over something that I will most likely replace in a few years. Thanks again fellas and thanks for letting me chime in my .01 Take care!

BTW: I think I'm going to pick up a nice 50" Panasonic plasma soon, use it for a couple years, than put it up for sale on here and one of you guys will buy it for $1500 hahahahaha
post #24 of 37
I disagree re the black levels - my Panny 58PX600u is very good but my Mits 65831 dlp is even better. The Mits has better SD stretch modes, the panny is better at HD stretch. The Panny has better depth, while the Mits is a bit sharper, though that varies with content. The Mits has a better OTA tuner, while the Panny has better speakers (for those who don't always use their AVR). Color fidelity is a toss up. Obviously, the Mits is better with glare. Scaling and deinterlacing probably goes to the Mits, though I can't fully compare as different dvds are hooked up to each, so I have to use OTA HD as a measuring point.

The Mits PIP is much better - far more options. I love both!
post #25 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trackman View Post

The Mits has better SD stretch modes, the panny is better at HD stretch.

Why would you need to stretch HD, since it already comes in full screen, 16:9 mode?
post #26 of 37
Soundofmusic:

I hope you were writing of selling your plasma for $1500 tongue in cheek. More likely to be your earlier statement of using it for a ping pong table.

I have been trying to sell my brand new Pioneer PHP 5070, which is an incredible display, and can hardly get an offer.

(I have not advertised here on the AVS forum for sale, as I do not have that privilege.)

Not trying to be argumentative, I agree with your point, pretty much whatever we end up with will last as long as we want it to.
post #27 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimreeves View Post

Thanks WaldorfSalad, you're right.

10) Yes, most if not all plasmas have mirror-like glass that reflects bright stuff in the room. Kind of like seeing your dashboard in the windshield while driving on a sunny day. May be a deal breaker for some, a non-issue for others that don't have a bright room. Some posters complain about sheen on LCD and DLP screens too, so it's important to take it into account with any display.

[snip]

Thanks again,
Jim

Looks like I made a rookie (to plasma) mistake recently in trying a Samsung 5053 plasma. I've previously had rear-projection HDTVs for the past 4-5 years.

Our room is rather bright during the day (SW facing) and moderately lit in the evenings (but will be bright in the summer months when it doesn't get dark until 9pm). We have blinds on the windows (a lot of them) but a lot of light still permeates the room from them and elsewhere (very open plan layout). Based on what I'd read about reflections/glare I thought that the use of blinds in conjunction with the Samsung's anti-glare screen would work OK for daytime (and evenings in summer) viewing. Wrong! Aside from reflections/glare (that had me squinting) I do get nice dark blacks but unfortunately thats about all I get with dark content as there is no shadow detail. I've tried cranking up the Brightness. It helps a bit, but not enough, and hurts PQ in other areas. I feel like I'm looking (squinting) at a glossy pool of black ink. Even evening viewing is not so great because the room is always moderately lit.

I did have the opportunity to view this plasma in near total darkness after the family had gone to bed and discovered that plasma display does indeed produce an excellent picture, but unfortunately late afternoon and evening is when we watch TV.

Another thing became apparent...I see greenish "flashes" with plasmas (I also see rainbows with DLPs) when there is dark content with bright objects.

Seems unlikely that a different model of plasma, such as Pioneer or Panasonic, would make any difference in my situation.

I have only myself to blame for this. I researched plasmas here for a while weeks and looked at a bunch in stores before deciding to try one. Just goes to show that the acid test is getting the display in your room under your typical viewing conditions. I took a risk and it didn't work out for me and I have no intent to bash plasmas because of this, it just didn't work for my scenario. So it looks like the better choice for a flat-panel display for our room is going to be an LCD (already trying Sony 52XBR3) as trying and get the room darker or changing viewing habits is not an option.
post #28 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Fat Cat View Post

Nice. Has anyone ever heard a BB/CC person recommend plasma for anything? It's like their being paid extra to make you buy a LCD or DLP set. Maybe it's because of the 25:1 ratio of LCD/Plasma tv's in the store...

Actually, I was at a BB a few weeks ago looking at DLP's and the when the salesman finally got around to me (he was a very talkative guy) he asked all the usual questions, viewing habits, distance and all the such. He steered me away from DLP siting bulb replacements and pushed plasma at me. Well, being the uneducated tv guru I am I told him how much I feared burn-in and that this was my main tv and the kids viewed it all the time. He said he was pretty much the same, lots of cartoons and no problems. Even told me about the break-in dvd.

However, the wife still wasn't sold and we bought a 42" Vizio LCD. While I am not totally dissatisfied with the set, my wife and I both agree the picture quality isn't what we though it would be. We have a 34"crt direct view and HD was very nice on it. We just wanted something bigger. So now we are looking at Plasma's and DLP's again with burn-in and bulb replacement fears. Just still not totally sold on how a plasma will be with My sons and I gaming habits and the sheer amount of tv and cartoons the living room set sees.
post #29 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilson10 View Post

Actually, I was at a BB a few weeks ago looking at DLP's and the when the salesman finally got around to me (he was a very talkative guy) he asked all the usual questions, viewing habits, distance and all the such. He steered me away from DLP siting bulb replacements and pushed plasma at me. Well, being the uneducated tv guru I am I told him how much I feared burn-in and that this was my main tv and the kids viewed it all the time. He said he was pretty much the same, lots of cartoons and no problems. Even told me about the break-in dvd.

However, the wife still wasn't sold and we bought a 42" Vizio LCD. While I am not totally dissatisfied with the set, my wife and I both agree the picture quality isn't what we though it would be. We have a 34"crt direct view and HD was very nice on it. We just wanted something bigger. So now we are looking at Plasma's and DLP's again with burn-in and bulb replacement fears. Just still not totally sold on how a plasma will be with My sons and I gaming habits and the sheer amount of tv and cartoons the living room set sees.

Well I have had both LCD and Plasma and i can honestly say, in my situation, that the Plasma PQ is much better. But that has alot to do with what set you buy also and how it is adjusted. I looked at the Vizio plasma and was impressed with it, if price is a huge factor you will be hard pressed to beat it.
I bought a Samsung 42 incher and couldnt be happier.
Have not owned a DLP, but have friends that have them. I have to say that im not as impressed with them, however i do not think the ones i have seen have been tweaked at all, so they quite possible look alot better with a litte adjusment.

As far as Burn in, i have not had a single problem with it, and i do a fair amount of gaming on it myself
post #30 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomojo View Post

LCDs are always at maximum power consumption even when brightness is lowered to normal viewing levels.
Plasmas consume less power when brightness is lowered to normal viewing levels.
Power consumption should be compared at normal viewing levels.

FYI,
I did a search on Google on Plasma TV Myths some great stuff came up including:


http://www.plasma-lcd-facts.eu/myths/energy-use/

Myth
Plasma TVs use more power than their LCD rivals.

Fact
The reality is that plasma TVs don't necessarily use any more power than LCDs - a fact which makes perfect sense if you think about how each technology works.

Plasma TVs, for instance, require just a single ignition of a plasma cell to cause a pixel to illuminate. Since darkness is achieved in plasma pixels by stopping electrical current getting into them, it follows that plasma TVs need relatively little power to reproduce dark scenes.

LCDs by comparison run at a constant power regardless of whether a scene is dark or light, due to their use of an always-on backlight.

Results from an independent research conducted by the AVT.O.P. Messetechnik laboratory in Germany, showed that plasmas tend to use the same - and sometimes less - amounts of power than LCD screens.


http://mylittlebussiness.blogspot.co...dtv-myths.html

As for power consumption, a study by Japan's Green Purchasing Network--an organization dedicated to promoting environmentally friendly purchasing by consumers, business, and government--concluded that the power consumption of similar-size plasma, CRT, and traditional LCD displays in real-world viewing situations is practically the same. However, the coming generation of LCDs that use LED backlighting, while expected to deliver significantly better color, will consume roughly twice as much power as traditional LCDs of the same size.

Quote:
Originally Posted by msmith198025 View Post

Lol, yeah and some of them still say that. I like to mess with them when they start that. "I always charge mine with Super Nean gas, it makes the color better....."

I recharge mine with R134 freon, It makes the colors look Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by msmith198025 View Post

And whats worse, they will try to argue you down if you disagree with them. These stores should really educate the employees better!

That's why they got fired from McDonalds, they kept putting the cheese under the burger
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