Can HDCD's be ripped with a Mac?

Sure, of course they can. I have no idea if the rip preserves whatever it is that makes them an "HDCD". My current CD player supports HDCD, my old one didn't, but darned if I can hear any difference between the way they sounded then, as now, with the new player. Anyway, I don't play CDs anymore, I just listen to the Mini

It will work but not if you compress it.

But in AIFF it's OK and you should put the volume
control of itune at max at replay.

Thierry

That's a good question. Since it's lossless the HD part should still be there, but you never know. I have a few hdcd's that I picked up years ago, unfortunately I don't have a pre-pro or a cd player with the hdcd extensions to test things out.

This thread isn't mac specific (no mac content at all), but it's interesting nonetheless

link

HDCD support seems to be hit or miss on Windows (when ripping) and there are also hints at Microsoft's involvement in the format. So... if you have a pre-pro/receiver that can decode HDCD's you may be able to rip and play on a Mac with the stream decoded by an external source, but it appears that playing HDCD on a Mac is not going to be possible. That is, you can play them, but the super duper special processing isn't going to happen.

No hints, Microsoft bought it lock stock and two smoking barrels. Planning on running WMP? Are you planning to rip to WAV, FLAC or AIFF? Do you have any HDCD compatible equipment?

If so, Jonesky, you should probably be in the Sonos forum, no? Look for a thread there like this one from the Slimdevices forum:

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32967

HDCD as a format for most Mac and OS X users has been, and remains, largely irrelevant.

(edit--Andrew, I see you've had your eye on that same thread...)

I make some test with HDCD and a Nad T762 which decode it. AIFF from itunes works
OK but lossless encoded weren't recognized as HDCD when played by itunes. Maybe
special header informations were lost in the process.
With windows you have the "bitperfect" problem as all 44 KHz audio pass through the
kmixer subroutine which whatever you try modify the data stream thus loosing HDCD as
well as DTS information. 48 KHz from DVD however is left untouched.
Thierry

Have you tried any other lossless codes (mac or windows)? Such as FLAC or Monkey's Audio? It probably won't work as I assume all encoders do the same as a standard cd player and simply throw away the extra 4-bits that compose a HDCD recording.

No, and I did'nt have HDCD decoder anymore to test.
Thierry

IIRC I was able to rip a HDCD using Apple Lossless and stream it to an Airport Express hooked up via Toslink to my Denon 3805, and it came up as "HDCD" there.

Once my laptop gets back from the shop I can try it again and verify it.

-John

Holly thread resurection batman.

Just wanted to follow up with this thread because it seams right when it was going to end with some solid confirmation there was no follow up.

Can anyone confirm if you can rip a HDCD to itunes and then play it back assuming you have a pro which can decode HDCD?

If yes do you need to rip Apple Lossless?

Yes, it works fine and as long as the rip is ANY lossless format (WAV, AIFF, or Apple Lossless) then you can stream it out by whatever means you want. If you use an Airport Express, make sure you disable the volume control because it digitally reduces the signal and nukes the HDCD encoding.

Now if only there was a software-based way of encoding higher-bitrate files into 44.1 HDCD, that'd be lovely. The Euphonix processors have been discontinued for years -- does anyone know how it's done these days?

-John

damn...doesnt seem to work for me...I am using an M audio between the make mini and processor...perhaps thats way?

It has to be straight 44.1/16bit all the way through, with no upsampling or digital volume adjustments, otherwise the encoding is lost. Does the M-audio try to do anything fancy with the signal?

-John

just like when trying to play back a DTS audio cd...volume to 100% and all audio enhancement unchecked...

and fyi, depending on the particular M-Audio model, there's usually a setting in the M-Audio control panel to allow pass through untouched versus the other "mixer" setting, which I believe forcibly upsamples everything to 48. If you're using an M-Audio to get digital out from a G4 mini, vancouver, that's likely your next hurdle.

thanks! this can kill two birds with one stone...

I dont see any settings in the M-Audio that lets me bypass so there is no upsample. Under settings in the M_audio it says "mac sample rate 48000hz. How can I be certian its not my mac which is outputting at 48k?

Can anyone recomend a similar product to the M audio I can get that would just pass through the audio at 44.1k?

Open Audio MIDI and look.


No, that sounds like you're being forcibly upsampled. Which M-Audio device do you have? A cheaper USB one? And is your mini a G4?

Start w/ iTunes closed, change MIDI output to 44.1, then open iTunes and play something--keep the M-Audio control panel open and see if you still get 48--it should show 44.1.

oh no....im going to feel realy dumb asking what MIDI is and where to find it because you wrote it like I should know.
yes I have a cheap USB MAudio...but wouldnt hesitate upgrading to something else if it made a difference playing back music.

^^^ never mind...i found it.

its set to the following.


source: internal speakers (which I cant change)
Format: 44100.0hz (seems like the mac is ouputting ok)
2ch 16 bit

everything else says M-Audio Transit USB

there is one setting which says "properties for" when I changed it to M-Audio the format was set to 48000hk...so I switched it to 44.1

is that I should have done? I cant check if it worked when playing a song becuase the my HT is being used by my wife right now

No worries, we've all been there...Applications > Utilities > Audio MIDI Setup > Audio devices

Yes, that's the place, and keep an eye there to determine how well the M-Audio software and drivers for the Transit are functioning--and for many of us, releasing timely drivers isn't where M-Audio distinguishes itself. You'll want digital out/AC-3 passthrough with a dvd, and ideally when you switch away to iTunes it'll just seamlessly (and transparently) switch to 44.1 within both Audio MIDI and the M-Audio control panel. Keep both in your dock for a while so you can check quickly.


See how well the Transit does for you first--if the Transit isn't forcing everything to 48 you'll be ahead of the game. I still have my M-Audio Firewire Solo connected to a G4 PowerMac (originally I got it to complement a G4 mini) and with Tiger drivers the Solo was always rock solid--handling iTunes, AC-3 passthrough for dvd, and even digital out for high def EyeTV recordings. M-Audio hasn't exactly been proactive transitioning their devices to Leopard--in 7 months the best they can do for some models is a beta which breaks the AC-3 pass through functionality--the very reason most Mac users bought them in the first place.

Granted music is your primary focus, but if you also rely on your mini for any other home theater function besides music, you'd probably be much better off stepping up to any Intel Mac, which all have built-in optical out, rather than rolling the dice with another M-Audio. However, if you plan to keep the G4 for a while, and keep it mainly music oriented, then there are plenty of other USB and firewire DAC options you can choose besides M-Audio--its uniqueness and value was solely the true AC-3 pass through for Apple dvdplayer.

I for one remain a fan of HDCD. It seems that since it was bought up by Microsoft, they buried it in a deep spider hole in an undisclosed location. I have tried searching the interwebs a few times over the past year for info on using HDCD for encoding recordings and found nothing.

well i was able to get my tracks to play as 44.1k and not 48k (which im happy about), but sadly the HDCDs ripped as AL still do not show as HDCD on my processor. Any other suggestions ?

Maybe try importing them as AIFF and/or WAV instead? Also, have you made sure to set iTunes volume at 100%, uncheck crossfade playback, sound enhancer & sound check, and uncheck the equalizer?

Can you include a screenshot of how 44.1 is indicated within your Transit control panel?

ok everything is unchecked and here is a screen shot. I have tied both Apple lossless and AIFF..still no go. Its only showing as 44.1k PCM on my Rotel RSP 1069 (which can do HDCD)


witha bonus of my new dog!

Great, your Transit isn't specifically saying 44.1--by kind of obliquely saying "maximum sample rate 48" and not changing when you toggle between feeding it 44.1 content and AC-3 48kHz content, methinks this is your issue--you'll need a call to tech support, some google-fu that goes back a few years or hope someone else here with a Transit sees this to say whether it can do 44.1 and 48--or whether the Transit just passes everything it receives at 48--which your Rotel sees as PCM and not AC-3 in the case of iTunes content. Anyway, I can't take you any further because my M-Audio control panel (for the Solo) does have an indicator that switches back and forth between 41 and 48 when I switch sources...I recall reading some thread from many years ago, circa G4 mini, that certain M-Audio models didn't distinguish, that and a few other reasons were why I spent a little more to go with a firewire M-Audio.

Another thing you can do--just to remove the HDCD from the equation momentarily, since that isn't getting us anywhere, to verify forced upsampling to 48 of the Transit is try a DTS audio WAV, which also is 44.1. If you don't have a DTS audio cd, download a free test track, I think I got my test from the Swedish Radio site, put it into iTunes and then try to play it. If it passes through the Transit and your Rotel indicator lights up as "DTS" then you know your Transit passed it as 44.1, if all you get is static (and yes, turn down your volume on the Rotel just in case) then you know the Transit is interfering with the signal...

I really appreciate all your help. I do want to say however that the M-Audio isnt forcing 48k because my Rotel is now saying 44.1k when playing any track off itunes.

Whats the model number of the one you use? Id like to get one I know someone has tested and made HDCD work. I have about 15 or 20 HDCDs so its worth the upgrade to me.

I thought that hdcd's where 20bit and red-book cd's where 16 bit so how can this work
if the selection is only up to 16bit unless i missed something isn't it reading the standard
layer of 16bit. I stand corrected I see that its 20bits of info encoded in to a 16bit excuse
my ignorance.