Another RadioRA vs. Homeworks RF ??? thread

I know this has been hashed out before, but the last big thread I found was from 2004, so I thought I would do this again.

I currently have an Insteon system with about 80 devices and I am just about done with it. Too many switch failures to keep the wife and daughter happy. I was waiting for Leviton Vizia RF stuff to come out, but now that it is out and I have seen some of the documentation, it has too many limitations to do what I want it to do.

So that leaves me with 2 real options. Lutron RadioRA or Homeworks RF. I know about Starlite, but the wife likes the look of the Lutron stuff better, so that is the direction I am going to go. She is already unhappy that I am going to rip out all the switches I spent a few months installing, but she is more upset when they don't work, so she gets her way with choosing the new ones.

I was ready to go with RadioRA and as I was doing some research, the Homeworks RF kept coming up. So I did some research on it and from what I can learn, it is close to a wash pricewise in a larger install.

Here is what I have: About 70 loads counting everything from closets to the attic lights. (Insteon actually shines here with their timer relay which can shut off the lights after 15 minutes) and another 23 or so multiway switches many of which will be replaced with controllers.

So I am at the upper end of RadioRA limits of 64 devices. I can do without many of the loads being automated, but low to mid 50's is probably the minimum.

I like that I can buy RadioRa locally or online with ease. The closest Homeworks dealer is 140 miles away. So I would need a source.

This will be a 100% DIY project from installation to programming and I know Lutron frowns on that for Homworks but that is how it will be. Also, the project will be done in stages with a larger initial purchase to get critical areas done and then basically a room or two a month until its done.

But here are a couple of questions:

1) How bad is RadioRA with "staging"? Most of daily button activity will be via controllers controlling 3-5 loads. I have read that RadioRA sends out the commands one at a time and lights come on in sequence. How long does this take? For example, in the MBR, there will be a controller "room" button that turns on the MBR lights and 3 loads of bathroom lights. Will I be able to watch these lights come on in stages or is it quick enough that you notice it, but you are not "waiting" for it.

2) Status light question. Let's say I have 6 controller buttons throughout the house that control 2 loads of outdoor spots. If I turn on the spots via "Controller A", its status light will come on and stay on as long as the spots are on. Will the status lights of Controller's B-F also come on to indicate status?

3) How qucikly do the lights actually respond? For all Insteon's faults, for the most part the repsonse is instantaneous. Aside from the staging issue above, how quickly would a load respond to a controller? I have also read that when using whole house scenes with the Chronos, that there is a 2 second or so delay for the scene to fire. Since Homeworks uses basically the same process 100% of the time, it there a similar delay?

4) Programming. I know what a pain it can be running around the house programming buttons as that was how I programmed much of my Insteon system as it was installed before Powerhome/Houselinc were available. Will the centralized programming of Homeworks be that much better as I expect given the quality of Lutron, I won't be replacing switches on a monthly basis. How hard is it to program Homeworks with the programming software? Keep in mind in the past year I have learned both Powerhome and Houselinc and have dabbled with Homeseer, so I have some experience is how these programs work. Or am I in for trial by fire?

5) Cost. I have read that the cost difference between RadioRA vs. Homeworks converges as the install gets larger. Given that I will require a Chronos with a RadioRA install, I am assuming I will be close in price with either option. Given that I will need a Chronos and it has to be the "main" repeater, it will be part of any RadioRA install from day 1. I have found RadioRA dealers that sell at basically 66% of retail. Can expect about the same ratio for Homeworks RF?

6) Dimming status. I know there is more capability with Homeworks to report status, change levels on the fly etc. But it really doesn't matter much to me as I am more of a "set it and forget it" type person.

7) Keypad controllers. Are the Large-button See-thru controllers available for RadioRA also available in Homeworks RF?

8) Availability and documentation. As mentioned, my closest Homeworks dealer is 140 miles and there is no guarantee the dealer would sell to me anyway, does anyone know a dealer will to sell to a homeowner? And include programming software? Also, RadioRA documentation is readily available, but I have had trouble finding detailed information about Homeworks RF. Most of the homeworks stuff I have found deals more with the wired versions vs. the wireless.

Yeah, I know its a lot and any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

There are DIY'ers that have programmed their own HW system. Lutron does not condone or approve of it. You just need a dealer who will provide you the software. Some will, some won't.

OP is me or "Original Poster".

No problem Mike.

I jumped in feet first back in July 2005 with the original Starter Kit which was a Control Linc, 2 signalincs and 2 lamplincs. As soon as switches became available, I was ordering them also. So I have had many Insteon components since the fall of 2005.

I began to see problems in early 2006 when I would come into a room and either the lights would not work, or I would notice a switch without an LED on. The problem was traced to the early version switches having a bad resistor. SH replaced them without question.

The problem was SH had two differnt batches of the V2.2 switchlinc. Early ones still had the bad resistors, but when they came, I thought I was getting the new ones since the ones that had failed were V2.0's. I later found out as I was replacing many of the same switches that some v2.2's had the bad resistor.

I have a keypad that keeps dropping its links. So I gave up on it. The local load works, but it won't control or respond to any other devices.

Then there was the "flicker" issue. This is where load that were not on FULL would flicker when ever there was traffic on the network. Let's just say that my wife was scrap booking with several friends in the dinning room when I set houselinc to spidering. She came down wanting to know what was up with the lights?

Since then it has been intermittent failures of some kind about once a month. It may be a bad resistor, a keypad that dies or most recently the paddle failure issue.

This problem has cropped up frequently on switches that get used daily. The switch just stops responding to paddle presses. It can be either ON or OFF but not usually both. Sometimes it can be fixed by replacing the paddle, sometimes not. Some have reported being able to fix it by removing the paddle and slightly stretching the springs so they depress the button a little harder. I tried it but stretched it a little too far and light stayed on. I have spare paddles so it is easier to just change them out.

I do love it as far as its speed. Most presses respond instantly. I just wish SH would have made a better quality switch. It seems like they were trying to hit a price point and spec'd the cheapest parts and seem surprised when they fail.

So to summarize, and be fair, most of my install is from devices that shipped between the fall 2005 and summer 2006 when I got my last batch of replacements. I have heard they are a revision or two past what I have. Of course that could just mean a firmware update or all new internals.

I do know that they missed quite a few products that were planned according to a "roadmap" that was published on the developer site last spring. So at this point, I no longer have confidence in SH's ability to deliver a high quality product.

That is why I am going with Lutron. I think in this situation, you get what you pay for and if quality costs more, then so be it. This is my home and I don't want it to create stress. I like to tinker, but on my terms. I don't want to come home planning to watch a game on TV only to have the wife tell me the switch in my daughter's bathroom needs replaced. (That one can't wait, although my daughter did give me a funny look when I handed her a flashlight. )

I don't want to change your mind or make you feel different about any decisions you have made, but that is my experience.

If you have a security panel such as the Elk, you can interface motion detectors from the panel to activate "scenes" via the RS-232 port to turn on outside lights.