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Outlaw 1070 or Emotiva LMC/LPA to drive Axiom M80s?

post #1 of 10
3/12/07 at 10:51am
Thread Starter 
Ok, I did a search and found a few Outlaw v Emotiva threads, but none about these two models in particular which are in the exact same price range. I posted this question to the Axiom forums and wanted to shoot it into these forums also. Here is the cut/paste from Axiom forums:

I THOUGHT I was done with selecting my components. Here is what I have chosen so far...

Axiom M80/VP150/QS8 combo for Left, Right, Center and rears
HSU VTF-3MK3 for sub

Now I have been trying to select something to drive them. I have narrowed it down to the

Emotiva LMC-1/LPA-1 combo or
Outlaw 1070

Pros and cons, the Emo is rated at 125W into 8 ohms(225 at 4) all channels driven. The Outlaw is half the power rating at 65w into 8 ohms (no 4 ohm rating on web site), but it has a lip snyc delay the Emo lacks. So far I have only had one lip sync issue watching DirectTV, and it was solved by unplugging the receiver and restarting it. I had chosen the Outlaw at first and kept seeing Emotiva mentioned by many people. I checked it out and my jaw dropped when I saw the specs for the price. But I have to admit, there is a flag up with me right now, the Emo combo almost sounds too good to be true.

Right now I am leaning on the Emo since I will be driving the 4ohm M80s. I had been a somewhat concerned that the Outlaw would be a little on the lean side for power. I do not have the money for the 1070/monoblock combo. I do enjoy high listening levels in a vaulted ceiling room measuring approximately 16x20 and opens into the kitchen and hallway

Thanks for any advice.
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post #2 of 10
3/12/07 at 10:56am
Emotiva combo
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post #3 of 10
3/12/07 at 11:03am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gov View Post

Emotiva combo

Thanks for the suggestion

Think you could elaborate on that a little? Why the Emotiva over the Outlaw? For instance, I would like to know if Emo is fudging their all channels driven ratings. I have been unable to locate any independent testing on those components. On the other hand, Outlaw tends to underrate their products.
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post #4 of 10
3/12/07 at 12:50pm
I have no experience with Outlaw although they are highly regarded. I have had the LPA-1 in my home and for a mere $500, it was an incredible piece of work! For me at the time, it wasn't any better at driving my "easy to drive" Ascend speakers, so I sent it back. At times tho, I wish I still had it, just because. Anyway, I would chose separates if I had the chance
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post #5 of 10
3/12/07 at 2:06pm
I have been following the Emotiva UL combo for the past month or so contemplating it for myself. In that time I have not seen one comment from anyone who did not think the LPA-1 delivered on its rated power, and quite a few saying just the opposite. It sounds like a real peach. The LMC-1 otoh has some usability issues you should understand before buying, but supposedly sounds great in its own right. The most comprehensive info on the Emotiva products is at the av123 forums if you haven't found your way there yet.
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post #6 of 10
3/12/07 at 2:39pm
Thread Starter 
Ok, I was reading the thread over at Audioholics that was started on their review of the LMC/LPA combo. Someone posted the link to the LPA owners manual.

The power rating on the Emo website here states the following

Rated Power Output: Channels 1-5 (All Channels Driven at 0.04%THD, 120vAC/ 60HZ supply) 8 ohm: 125 watts / 4 ohm: 225 watts

However, buckeyefan 1 posted a link to the owners manual on the AH thread here

If you scroll down this PDF document, you will find the following on page 24.

Rated Power Output: (All Channels Driven @ 1Khz 120VAC/ 60HZ supply, THD noted)
Channels 1-5 125 Watts into 8 Ohms (0.04%THD)
225 Watts into 4 Ohms (0.04%THD)
Channels 6-7 50 Watts into 8 Ohms (0.05%THD)
95 Watts into 4 Ohms (0.05%THD)

Notice here, they state this was all channels driven @1Khz where as the Outlaw is 65W@8ohms 20hz-20Khz. Now, I dont want to start a debate on the all channels driven test, but this gives me a hint on how they can make this combo for under $1k, I knew there had to be something. I would still like to see a true all channels driven test for this amp. If it doesn't fall on its face at the other parts of the freq spectrum, then we truely have a deal here.

I feel the information presented on the Emotiva website regarding this product is slightly misleading....I am not saying they lied, they never stated full frequency sweep, however they definately omitted it.

I am also not knocking this amp, I am just trying to get the hard information on what these different amps are capable of so I can make an informed decision.
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post #7 of 10
3/13/07 at 12:09pm
This was posted by a member over on av123 who apparently got this response from Lonnie at Emotiva about the power specs on the LPA-1:

..."The true power spec on the LPA-1 is 125 x 5 into 8 ohms and 65 x 2 into 8 ohms all channels driven with a broad band frequency response of 10-50Khz. From 20 to 20 the frequency response and power output is for all practical purposes completely flat and the amp will deliver the rated power across the band. Now the actual frequency response of the unit is from 10-50Khz @ -1db, thus the power spec can be derived from that as well, but this would just tend to confuse most people. To make the testing go faster in production, the Audio Precisions are set up to run a frequency sweep to very the power response is flat and then it just does a 1K measurement

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post #8 of 10
3/13/07 at 12:40pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gov View Post

This was posted by a member over on av123 who apparently got this response from Lonnie at Emotiva about the power specs on the LPA-1:

From 20 to 20 the frequency response and power output is for all practical purposes completely flat and the amp will deliver the rated power across the band.

Thanks for digging that up and posting it here. I have been very curious about this amplifier.

Emotiva saying "for all practical purposes" sure leaves the question wide open to interpretation. He says it will deliver the rated power across the band, but neglects to say this as all channels driven.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gov View Post

Now the actual frequency response of the unit is from 10-50Khz @ -1db, thus the power spec can be derived from that as well, but this would just tend to confuse most people. To make the testing go faster in production, the Audio Precisions are set up to run a frequency sweep to very the power response is flat and then it just does a 1K measurement


Yeah this kind of confuses me too. He says they test the entire freq range to verify a flat response, but then says they go back and measure at 1K to make production faster? How is this making anything faster? You already did a full sweep.

If what they want you to believe about this amp is true, it would be total slam dunk over the Outlaw 1070 I have been considering. However, neglecting to state a frequency range for all channels driven power output on the website, along with stating all channels driven power ratings @1Khz only on the last page of the owners manual, and capping it off with Lonnie from Emotiva's very vague and confusing statements has me more suspicious than ever of what this company is claiming about the power output of the LPA-1. Let us also not forget that Audioholics recently had a big gushing review of this amp with NO bench testing whatsoever. Supposedly the reviewer didn't have testing equipment to work with. Why not send the amp into wherever Audioholics does their benchmarking, bench it, and THEN finish and publish the review? To their credit, when this was brought up on the forums, there was a response from Gene at Audioholics saying he would be benching this amp soon. I am very much looking forward to seeing these numbers.

I want to like this amp, the idea of breaking into separates for uner $1k is very appealing to me, the combo would look badass in my HT, there has been a lot of good things said about it by many happy owners...but right now I just don't know what to think about it.
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post #9 of 10
3/13/07 at 2:04pm
Of all the responses for the LPA-1 I don't recall anyone being unhappy with it.
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post #10 of 10
3/13/07 at 2:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhull302 View Post

Thanks for digging that up and posting it here. I have been very curious about this amplifier.

Emotiva saying "for all practical purposes" sure leaves the question wide open to interpretation. He says it will deliver the rated power across the band, but neglects to say this as all channels driven.



Yeah this kind of confuses me too. He says they test the entire freq range to verify a flat response, but then says they go back and measure at 1K to make production faster? How is this making anything faster? You already did a full sweep.

If what they want you to believe about this amp is true, it would be total slam dunk over the Outlaw 1070 I have been considering. However, neglecting to state a frequency range for all channels driven power output on the website, along with stating all channels driven power ratings @1Khz only on the last page of the owners manual, and capping it off with Lonnie from Emotiva's very vague and confusing statements has me more suspicious than ever of what this company is claiming about the power output of the LPA-1. Let us also not forget that Audioholics recently had a big gushing review of this amp with NO bench testing whatsoever. Supposedly the reviewer didn't have testing equipment to work with. Why not send the amp into wherever Audioholics does their benchmarking, bench it, and THEN finish and publish the review? To their credit, when this was brought up on the forums, there was a response from Gene at Audioholics saying he would be benching this amp soon. I am very much looking forward to seeing these numbers.

I want to like this amp, the idea of breaking into separates for uner $1k is very appealing to me, the combo would look badass in my HT, there has been a lot of good things said about it by many happy owners...but right now I just don't know what to think about it.

I'm a new member and I don't own a LPA-1... yet. But I'm very close to ordering one. I have talked to Lonnie on the phone and my impression is different than yours. 1st of all, he's an engineer and did much of the design work on the amp himself. It was evident in my conversation that he was very proud of the amp.

He also told me it was very, very conservatively rated and would easily exceed the advertised power before clipping. I think you're trying to read bad things into his comments. My take is that they tested the amps from 10-50K Hz. during design but are doing 1K sweeps to ensure each amp meets specs as they receive them. I also find it hard to believe that they would put a 30 day no questions asked money back guarantee on their products with out being extremely confident of the performance and build quality.

I have a couple more questions in my mind before I order but trusting the company is not one of them.

My $.02 worth.

JIm
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