My view on the format wars

You seem to have already made your choice. You are buying a player to play movies, right?

I dearly loved my Nakamichi BX-2 tape deck, far more than my BluRay player. But I didn't touch the BX-2 in years and eventually sold it on EBay. I don't know if owners of HD-DVD players like their players more than BluRay owners , but even if they do that doesn't make up for missing out on movies you want to watch.

Ask yourself one question - can you live without King Kong, The Mummy, Children of Men, The Good Shephard, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, and other Universal titles?

Then ask yourself can you live without this list ?

Great link...

Do you know of a list that also includes Universal (HD-DVD only) ? - maybe in Red so that you can see everything out or to be released.

I too am on the fence for this, and plan to stay that way, for now.

I'm holding out until a single player can play movies from all Studios, can decode all codecs, can be updated via ethernet, has 5.1 Analog out, and below $500.

The way I see it, Universal will become format neutral before Sony does. But by them holding out, its forcing BD to become better -look how its improved because of HD-DVD. -and now the prices seem to dropping fast.

The war has hurt overall adoption. I went with Blu-ray due to content and better specs. I will not go with HD DVD due to the fact that we need one format. As it stands the format that can win is Blu-ray.

I would wait a few more months and then go with a 2nd gen Blu-ray player or PS3. Right now things are all Blu-ray. If the situation is the same in a few months you can be assured you will be buying a successful format that will last.

I seem to see more frustration with the HD DVD player owners with their players, and much more irrational cheerleading. THis makes me think that many HD DVD owners are overstating their satisfaction in hopes it will help salvage the format. I realize this happens on the Blu-ray side as well, but the slow load times, lack of 1080p, many bugs of the HD DVD players all seem to get glossed over in favor of "superior upconverting" of SD DVD.

My advice would be to stay away from HD DVD for now.

That BluRay link is updated by beatboy77 (a BluRay fanboy). There doesn't appear to be an HD-DVD fanboy willing to do the same. With universal releasing less than ten movies in the 1st qtr of this year I think such a list would be depressing to HD-DVD owner.


The 2nd generation LG player will meet most of those requirements. It will probably be priced around $800.


I agree. Lots of people, and the press, seem to be saying the format war is bad, but I think the price reductions are only occurring because of the war.

Because there is a cost to producing movies on both formats. Also Disney/Fox/Sony have vested interests in BluRay. Fox is extremely concerned with copy protection and after AACS has been cracked it appears for good reason. Disney is arguing that 30GB just isn't enough, and the 75GB release of PotC is proof that HD-DVD just won't fit their needs.

Reality is the studios ARE NOT staying out of it, so the point is moot.

Porn has chosen their side as well...HD DVD, this will be a factor. The thing is, all these sales figures posted on HD-DVD vs BLU-RAY, do not include porn sales. HD-DVD may not sell as much, but definately will be around, unless the porn companies do not renew with HD-DVD. I have no clue what the length of the contracts are though. I'm not on either side, nor do I own either, but I do believe porn will be a huge factor.

I have used the A1, A2, XA2, and the Sony player. I personally prefer HD DVD just because it's cheaper to get into, but my BDP-S1 has been far more error-free than any of the 3 HD DVD players. The said-to-be-the-best XA2 wouldn't play 2 of the 4 double-sided HD DVDs I've fed it. I'm also not pleased that the XA2 has SD DVD layer changes of about 2 seconds at times. While the Sony can't deliver the same SD DVD picture quality, it has been more error-free than all of the HD DVD players I've had. Out of the HD players I've used, I still think the Sony is easily the best and can't hardly imagine anyone agreeing with what you said. Sure the Sony has its knocks like missing audio codecs and price, but for movie playback without issue, it wins hands down.

If I play a disc on my Sammy it just plays. If I put a disc in my Tosh I keep my fingers crossed.

I prefer my PS3 over my XA2! The only thing that the XA2 has over the PS3 is the ability to upscale. So far the PS3 has been trouble-free...can't say the same for my XA2!

I certainly don't! And from all the threads on people "switching to Blu" makes me think a lot of them are with me on this.



How so? I'm the complete opposite! All the functions on my PS3 are done flawlessly (Rewinding, FF, skipping, load times)! It's truly a great player for a great price!

I'd like to see numbers on discs that are available in both formats. Also, lets say Warner introduces Batman Begins on Blu-ray. Would it sell more copies than it has on HD-DVD?

I am glad though that Sony is starting to use the AVC codec and are producing great pictures with it.

As for the porn argument, Vivid, the largest porn dealer will be releasing a well known title on Blu-ray and has said they won't be HD-DVD only.

Time will tell and for those of you waiting to jump in, I'm sure by the end of the year, there will be even more to talk about in terms of player pricing, titles and codecs and perhaps the release of HDMI 1.3 in players other than the PS3.

Richard

The "format war" could come to a conclusion very quickly if the hardware guys (Sony, Toshiba, et al) and the movie guys took a lesson from HP and how to sell printers or from Gillette and how to sell razors. Cut the price of the initial equipment investment (read: sell it at a loss or thereabouts). The consumers' are gonna give it back in sales of printer cartridges, blades or disks. Granted, with the exception of Sony, the hardware guys probably don't directly benefit from disk sales but they could easily get together. Toshiba is offering 5 titles with their sets, but the price of the player is still too high for most. Deep discount the player and they will come. Whoever figures this out will slam the door on the other.

Because you want a standalone, the thing HD DVD has going for it is price. An A2 can be had for under $400, and there's no Blu-ray standalone that comes close. That is the major selling point of HD DVD, lower possible prices. On that point, I do think that HD DVD might have a better long-term position if they can maintain the advantage. That said though, there are drawbacks.

The thing that bothers me about the 2nd Toshiba players that few people note are the SD DVD layer changes. The DVD players I've owned never bothered me with layer changes, but with the Toshibas there is a clear pause when a DVD hits the layer change. The XA2 is the worst because I bought it to watch DVDs and it really does look good. The movie is playing along fine, then all of a sudden in the middle it freezes before it continues. If you already realize this that's fine, but it's not very much talked about on the HD DVD forums so I was very suprised when I got one and all the DVDs I was watching kept stopping in the middle.

Either way you go, it could be choosing a format that could fail. Personally if I had your patience, I might see how the 2nd Samsung turns out. Clealy not many people are going to be buying it with a retail price of $800, but I don't see how it could be any worse of a player than the XA2. While long-term I do think that HD DVD might have the better position, right now Blu-ray is the way to go if you only want one player to watch HD movies, the LG doesn't interest you, and if price isn't an issue.

I don't know about RealAudiophobe but as a Format Neutral I can definitely live without 90% of the titles on that list. The fact that I wouldn't buy the few specific HDDVD titles you quoted doesn't make your list any more attractive to me.

I agree with the starter of this thread. The war is hurting both formats and if they don't come to some agreement soon both could loose. I own a Toshiba HD player and a PS3 so one might think that I am neutral. I am actually angry at both sides for not reaching an agreement. I would hope that someone comes out with a low cost dual player that will end this mess. I would also suggest another alternative. Capture the Presidents of Sony and Toshiba and lock them in a room until they come out with an agreement to end this.

Stores like Walmart and the warehouse clubs could also have a big impact if they only stocked one of the formats. I don't think they will do this at the risk of alienating one of the companies.

Then wait on the sidelines until the dust settles. Despite all this talk about the "war" being over. IMO by the end of this year, we'll see if there's a clear winner or if this "war" will drag out even longer.

Considering there's 279 upcoming releases and 192 currently available, there are 47 BluRay movies you don't want to live without.

Yes, and several of those are dual format.

I respectfully disagree. Both will loose? No, not after such huge investments were made on both sides, not after so many HDTVs were sold. A move to an HD video is irreversible at this point and I do not think for a second the market all of a sudden will decide to stay with the SD level video.
I could see both of them loosing to some kind of "next" next generation HD technology, but such does not exist as of yet and no one is likely to invest significant amount in that now.

Wake me when all of John Cassavetes' independent work is published on either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. The selection on both formats is abysmal.

I read a very interesting article that said Blu-ray is still selling 2-1 over HD DVD. It said that most BR players were the PS3 (duh) that were out there. The shocking thing I heard though is that BR and HD DVD players were selling equally if you took out PS3. At first I thought this gave HD DVD a boost, but then I thought about how much more BR players cost than HD DVD, and people are still buying them at an equal pace. This looks very good for BR supporters. Especially when the lower cost SA units begin to ship this year.

That's because people who buy HD-DVD have better taste in movies and don't buy the crap BR titles offered at 50% off.

Well, this sounds like a completely unbiased and non-troll opinion, doesn't it?

Oh, and I can add a smiley at the end too

Btw, I would love to know where they sell BR titles at 50% off ... PM me with the URL.

Funny how when Blu-ray has a sale on BD's, it's desperation, but when HD DVD's cutting their players' prices by hundreds of dollars within two months of their becoming widely available, everything's great in the land of HD DVD.

Hmmmm...

As to the original poster, lots of "observations" that don't seem to be true. Most people who own an HD DVD player and a Blu-ray player have had less problems with their BD player, unless it was manufactured by Samsung. In which case, they have had as many problems as every HD DVD player manufactured by Toshiba (including the add-on). I know I like my PS3 a lot more than I like my XA2 if only for the problems I had with it when I bought it (firmware fixed most of those problems).

Upconversion is great. BD players will get that with the new Samsung model and everything suggests the PS3'll get it in the next few months, too. Even if it didn't, what is the MSRP on the XA2 vs the PS3? Good then that Toshiba's instituting massive cuts on the XA2 to get it down to a point where they can't be making money on it any more. Why would they do that? They feel the change in the wind and they're trying to fight against it...

Regardless, content's in BD's favor. This past week when all the BD fans were excited about Layer Cake and Casino Royale, how many HD DVD's do you think I received to watch this week from the new listing?

0.

That's HD DVD's problem. Even this week, HD DVD gets what hit to counter Chicken Little?

So people who own only HD DVD will talk to you about player quality, image quality, sound quality, an intense hatred of Sony, the way BD came out looking poor, and how the PS3 is selling poorly. Oh, and you'll probably hear something about attach rate.

People who own BD will talk about 5 vs 1 movie companies, very stable players with less outright glitches in the players, quicker players (in particular the PS3), larger title lists for every week that's been announced (except in June when BD hasn't reached yet for the most part), and Disney/BVHE titles that max out thorughput to get superior quality even with VC1 and LPCM. Oh, and the fact that Casino Royale got into the Top 10 for all discs, DVD or not.

People who own both? In my experience, people who own both tend to favor HD DVD because they bought it first and then "went neutral" after the PS3 was found with "such a low price I had to do it to be neutral" and then they'll profess to be buying HD DVD on most things they can while doing BD for the things they can't. There have been a lot of threads in the BD forums from people like this, far more than the equivalent reversal in HD DVD. More people seem to be going BD now (especially with PS3's) after having been HD DVD only than vice-versa.

As times goes on, some of those people begin to praise BD for the content, forgetting the early bias they built up over the course of last year when HD DVD could do no wrong and BD could do no right. That was 2006. This is 2007 and now nearly every downside to BD has been righted.

Most who "went neutral" are seeing that. The war's bad for everyone. When everything's equal or better on BD, including content and players and price, then one has to wonder...

What else is left for HD DVD to do for the market except take up space? I know I have my XA2 for Universal movies only. I bought an XA2 after my A1's skipping that was never fixed finally got on my last nerve.

I find this very hard to believe. Do you have a link for this? Everything I have heard has been at least 5 to 1 in favor of HD DVD. If that were the case why would HD DVD even waste their time?

Just as the HD formats aren't a dent in DVD sales, the same goes for porn. It's not even a blip on a radar in HD sales. You'll find that total HD porn discs have probably sold 500-1000 copies at most in 3 months.

No problem, here ya go

http://guidetohometheater.com/news/31107bluraysales/

Funny how you get HD Fanboys in a BR forum just venting on their insecurities.