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*free* software to help determine your first reflection points - Page 3

post #61 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emanuele View Post

jeffreylebowski,
I really appreciate your program !!!

Would be really great if you integrate also the choice between english and metric system, all europen user will really appreciate that !

A Google search for 'imperial metric calculator' turns up 347, 000 hits. I think the features Chris has mentioned are more important than time spent reinventing the wheel. If people can't figure out how to convert inches to centimeters they probably shouldn't be building a theater in the first place...

-drin
post #62 of 249
I've finish tried it with my room dimensions, and doesn't fit there since the position of my front channel and screen is asymmetrical.

Could you add different x-shift for left and right front speaker, and an x-shift for center channel and screen ?


Also, my room is very little so z dimension is 11.8 feet, but I can go only down to 12 feet, could you make a little more excursion for room Z slider ?

thanks !

Emanuele
post #63 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by drin View Post

A Google search for 'imperial metric calculator' turns up 347, 000 hits. I think the features Chris has mentioned are more important than time spent reinventing the wheel. If people can't figure out how to convert inches to centimeters they probably shouldn't be building a theater in the first place...

-drin

Drin, actually I used the program converting each single measurement from metric system to english one, i'm not english but also not a retarded
I think could be an improvement to have it directly in program.
And please, calm down before arguing in such tone with somebody you don't know, ok ?

bye
Emanuele
post #64 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emanuele View Post

And please, calm down before arguing in such tone with somebody you don't know, ok ?

Who says I'm not calm?

As Chris stated in the subject line for this thread, the software is *free*. You get what you pay for, and since he has locked the feature list for the next version with no sign of metric conversion, if you want better, feel free to write it yourself
post #65 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by drin View Post

Who says I'm not calm?

This will show you why it seems like your not calm..Its how you deliver the message in writing..


"If people can't figure out how to convert inches to centimeters they probably shouldn't be building a theater in the first place"


Its a very fair request to add for Metric, if Chris doesnt, then he doesnt, but I think ALL Europeans will love to see this feature added...
post #66 of 249
Sorry for the thread hijack, folks. I promise I'll get off my soapbox in a minute.


Having spent almost 20 years managing corporate software engineering I think I have a pretty good idea of what design features constitute a waste of engineering time (anyone ever work with a marketing dept. before? ), but of course your mileage may vary.


Quote:
Originally Posted by richlo View Post

This will show you why it seems like your not calm..Its how you deliver the message in writing..

"If people can't figure out how to convert inches to centimeters they probably shouldn't be building a theater in the first place"

I think my initial statement was fair. If a person can't convert imperial to metric they really shouldn't be trying to build a theater! Simple mathematics is a rather basic skill involved in construction. Let's break it down a little:

1. Let's start with the premise that it takes roughly 12 hours to add a single feature to an application (as per Metrics and Models in Software Quality Engineering (2nd Edition) by Stephen H. Kan). That includes design time, coding, GUI redesign to support the feature and alpha testing. It does NOT include beta testing time since on AVSForum that's likely to be completed by users. It also doesn't include recoding time to correct bugs. After all, I know Chris' coding style and he doesn't write bugs.

2. I ran the app and using the very first link that Google came up with (http://www.helpwithdiy.com/metric_co...alculator.html) converted my metric room dimensions to imperial. Time: approximately 90 seconds to convert plus 2 seconds for the Google search.

3. I took the results the app provided and using the 1' grid approximated the locations of my panels. Time: approximately 2 minutes.

4. I took these results and using the same metric conversion tool converted these results from imperial to metric. Time: approximately 60 seconds.

Total time: 4 minutes 32 seconds.

I don't care WHERE you're from (I'm originally from Europe, then 21 years in Canada, a number in the U.S. and most recently Japan for 4 years), if you expect the programmer to spend at least 12 hours of his time implementing this feature to save you the 4 minutes and 32 seconds it'll take you to do the conversions yourself you should really examine your priorities, because I think they're a little messed up. Just my opinion, of course.

Quote:


Its a very fair request to add for Metric, if Chris doesnt, then he doesnt, but I think ALL Europeans will love to see this feature added...

To you, I'm sure, but that doesn't mean it's worth the time it would take away from other features in the program that I think are more important.

Let me put it this way: which would you rather see:

o Cathedral Ceilings, or metric conversion?
o Ability to setup speakers off-center in the room x-axis, or metric conversion?
o Ability to setup listener zones off-center in the room x-axis, or metric conversion?
o Ability to selectively disable listener zones, or metric conversion?
o GUI redesigned to support these features, or metric conversion?
o Sound passing through listeners to back wall and reflecting, resulting in more reflections shown on back wall, or metric conversion?


I personally think it's much more important for Chris to provide support for the above-mentioned features than to add metric support. As I said in my initial post, there are hundreds of thousands of Google hits on 'imperial metric calculator'. In my opinion that's FAR less important than the feature list Chris posted.

Anyway, I'm not going to get any further into a flame war. You're entitled to ask for metric support, and I'm entitled to reply that I think it's a waste of time to add it when there are more important features to consider (again, my opinion).


If I invoke Godwin now that should end this, right?

-drin
post #67 of 249
Drin

All I said is that its a FAIR request, and if he doesnt want to add it, its up to him..so the point is mute..I think you bring valid point but the REQUEST is simply that..nothing more. I get what your saying.

I think we can move on from this..its seriously not our program to decide what we want and dont - but we are free to request.
post #68 of 249
Thread Starter 
Hi guys. Certainly no harm in asking for features. As I said i'll consider all requests after v1.1.
post #69 of 249
Great program! Thanks for sharing your skills.
Quote:
Originally Posted by <><</strong> View Post

good app
one suggestion, instead of slider, maybe a txtbox for users to enter the dimensions manually.

I'll second this request. Seems like it would be quicker to get it accurate. But it's way cool watching the room change as you slide ;-) Does't take much to amuse me

And I'd like to add... that most all the dimensions and grid reference 0,0,0 at the front left corner, but the seating positions are referenced from the back wall. This doesn't seem as intuitive to me and I think most of us are used to referencing seating at the distance from the screen. Maybe something to consider for a future revision.

Thanks again!
Chip
post #70 of 249
I'm really embarrassed to ask this - guess I'm the only old timer on the thread - but, could someone explain the logic of the position controls to me??? When I click and drag or use one of the qwasdz keys, I have no idea what's going to happen. I currently have my room upside down and the only way I can find to use it now is to turn my monitor upside down .

Didn't like the #%^*%^@# Rubic Cube either
post #71 of 249
Thread Starter 
Hi Andy. Imagine you are standing looking at the room. Press:

W to take a step forward
S to take a step backward
A to take a step to the left
D to take a step to the right
Q to levitate off the floor as high as you want
Z to hunker down as low as you want (even below the floor)

once you've mastered gliding around with those controls, you can add the ability to rotate your head from wherever you currently are "floating". Click and drag with the left mouse button to rotate your head. Drag left to look to the left, forward to look up, etc.

These are very common controls in computer games, but if you don't play those, it will take some getting used to.
post #72 of 249
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChipWV View Post

Great program! Thanks for sharing your skills.

I'll second this request. Seems like it would be quicker to get it accurate. But it's way cool watching the room change as you slide ;-) Does't take much to amuse me

Hi Chip. Thanks! New gui controls are on the way for v1.1.
post #73 of 249
Thanks, Jeff.

Now it all makes sense.
post #74 of 249
Kewl program, now I just need to make a few sound absorption panels.

Thanks
Look forward to seeing new features but, since my room is a basic box it works well.
post #75 of 249
How's the new software coming along?
post #76 of 249
What a wonderful tool. I'm going to have to verify if I did things right manually using the mirror method.

http://www.axiomaudio.com/porterplex.html
post #77 of 249
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vipercompany View Post

How's the new software coming along?

Hi Viper. I'm actually on a trip to the US right now (live in Canada), and i've only had a little time to work on the software. Right now v1.1 sits at about 70% complete. I return home April 18th, and I plan to release v1.1 within a week of that. I'll update the thread when it's ready to go. thx
post #78 of 249
Hey Jeff one question. I'm putting in my Axiom speaker dimensions and other dimensions. For some reason even though the height off the floor dimension says a min of 4", the slider will only go down to 1'10"? My mains are actually about 8" off the floor as they are sitting on a stage below my screen, but I can't go below 1'10" for some reason? What about people that have them on the floor? Or is this looking for the height from the tweeters to the floor?

Thanks, Randy
post #79 of 249
This thread definitely needs a sticky. It's late and I'm out of coffee. How do you contact the moderators to ask for a sticky?? The "Report Post" link says it should only be used to report spam or abusive posts.
post #80 of 249
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirquack View Post

Hey Jeff one question. I'm putting in my Axiom speaker dimensions and other dimensions. For some reason even though the height off the floor dimension says a min of 4", the slider will only go down to 1'10"? My mains are actually about 8" off the floor as they are sitting on a stage below my screen, but I can't go below 1'10" for some reason? What about people that have them on the floor? Or is this looking for the height from the tweeters to the floor?

Thanks, Randy

Hi Randy. The measurement is to the center of the speaker. If you try and drop the speaker so low that the bottom of it strikes the floor, the slider won't let you go any further (and a message in red text should inform you of a slider constraint preventing you from moving any further).

If your speakers are 2' tall, and you want the bottom edge of the speaker 8" off the floor, you would set the slider to 1'8" which is how high the center of the speaker would be off the floor.
post #81 of 249
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodo Bird View Post

This thread definitely needs a sticky. It's late and I'm out of coffee. How do you contact the moderators to ask for a sticky?? The "Report Post" link says it should only be used to report spam or abusive posts.

Hi Dodo Bird. Yes it would be nice if we could get a sticky on this! Hopefully if a few people ask the admins will agree. thx
post #82 of 249
Thanks Jeff,

That makes sense. How about the measurements for the first and second rows. I'm not finding a help file that explains what your asking. Are you asking about "ear" height, for example? It looks like your limited to like 1-3ft, so I'm trying to understand what your asking for here.

Thanks again, Randy
post #83 of 249
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirquack View Post

Thanks Jeff,

That makes sense. How about the measurements for the first and second rows. I'm not finding a help file that explains what your asking. Are you asking about "ear" height, for example? It looks like your limited to like 1-3ft, so I'm trying to understand what your asking for here.

Thanks again, Randy

Hi Randy. Yes, make the green boxes surround anywhere people's heads/ears will be in the theatre. The more you can narrow these boxes down the better, as they will result in smaller reflection zones on the walls, and therefore less panels for you to make.
post #84 of 249
Jeff:

AWESOME program! I do have one small feature suggestion though. Would it be possible to have the program show the recommended treatment areas including dimensions? I know you've got the grids there but it would be really slick if you were to, say, draw a box around the point clusters with panel dimensions and wall/ceiling location measurements. That doesn't really alter the core functionality - it's more of a convenience.

Kevin
post #85 of 249
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceMoose View Post

Jeff:

AWESOME program! I do have one small feature suggestion though. Would it be possible to have the program show the recommended treatment areas including dimensions? I know you've got the grids there but it would be really slick if you were to, say, draw a box around the point clusters with panel dimensions and wall/ceiling location measurements. That doesn't really alter the core functionality - it's more of a convenience.

Kevin

Thanks SpaceMoose! I'll add your feature request to the list of things i'm considering beyond 1.1.

Also, the 1.1 release is going to be a little later than I hoped. I'm working on it, but various other projects are pulling my time away. Hopefully I can get it out in the next week.
post #86 of 249
I thought you guys might be interested in my process using Jeff's super-sweet little app.

First, let me say I'm a major freak about being able to visualize ideas before I build them... Hence, my addiction to building everything (and I do mean everything) in 3D with SketchUp to see the idea and make sure I like it before I start cutting, nailing, etc.

So, this app is great, right? Absolutely... render reflection points, use grid to take measurements. Done, right? Wait a sec, what will that LOOK like? Yes, I'm a complete freak. Anyway, it's not a problem at all with Jeff's app and SketchUp.

1. Render the reflection points in the app, and move around to get a nice oblique view of your wall.
2. Grab a screen shot.
3. Past into a photo editor and crop the wall down.
4. Import into SketchUp as a texture and map onto the wall.
5. Play with SketchUp to find appropriate panel sizes and locations (and if you're anal retentive like I am) make sure you like the layout and sizes.
6. Slap dimensions on your drawing in SketchUp and print to build/order/install panels!

Here are the renders from SketchUp:

Image texture mapped onto wall:


2x4 ATS Acoustics panel placement idea:


Hidden line rendering with a couple of dimensions:


The author could even add an option to save the walls out as images ready to map in SketchUp... no photo app would be necessary, then.

Anyway, though some of you might find the process interesting.

Thanks for the cool app!

SC
post #87 of 249
Jeff:

Excellent work! I've been playing around with your app for sometime.

With acoustically transparent screens in false walls being all the rage these days, my suggestion for an improvement would be to add a Z-axis for screen placement. That way you could place your speakers behind the screen.

Edit:
On 2nd thought, if your algorithm does not consider the screen a reflective surface, then you wouldn't need the z-axis. If it does, you would want an option to consider the screen transparent and remove it from the equation.

All the best,

Gerry
post #88 of 249
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the kind words and suggestions Gerry and ecrabb.

Sorry for the delay in getting the next release out everyone. I'm not going to post a timeframe anymore, but I will get it out "when it's done". I've got a lot of other things eating my time up right now. Keep checking back. thx
post #89 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by richlo View Post

This will show you why it seems like your not calm..Its how you deliver the message in writing..


"If people can't figure out how to convert inches to centimeters they probably shouldn't be building a theater in the first place"


Its a very fair request to add for Metric, if Chris doesnt, then he doesnt, but I think ALL Europeans will love to see this feature added...

And canadians too...
post #90 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by stef2 View Post

And canadians too...

Funny. I *am* Canadian, and the author of the software is too. All the Canadians I know are smart enough to use a calculator.


-drin
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