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Toshiba drops MSRP on units effective 4/1/07

post #1 of 142
3/20/07 at 11:00am
Thread Starter 
http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/20/t...ective-4-1-07/

Quote:
Originally Posted by EnGadget View Post

At just about the one year anniversary of the format war, it looks like Toshiba is throwing the next punch. HD DVD will be one step closer to that magic price point of $299, with that latest update of the MSRP of their HD DVD players. According to a few retailers at the AVSFroum on April 1st Toshiba will change the MSRP and the least expensive model; the A2 will now have an MSRP of $399. The A2 isn't the only model with a new price, as the other two models see a drop as well, the A20 will be $499 and finally the high end model, the XA2 for $799. So if price was the only thing stopping you from getting in the HD DVD game and the Xbox360 add-on just isn't your style, then now might just be the time. Of course some of you will still be waiting for the $600 Blu-ray player instead.

So HD DVD makes the next move.

Discuss!
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post #2 of 142
3/20/07 at 11:04am
April Fool's! They will actually be lower
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post #3 of 142
3/20/07 at 11:09am
HD DVD players are already under $300 on Amazon.
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post #4 of 142
3/20/07 at 11:11am
IMO, a $299 player price is largely irrelevant when you don't have Disney, Fox, Sony or MGM content.
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post #5 of 142
3/20/07 at 11:14am
fa8362,

not surprising you would say that.
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post #6 of 142
3/20/07 at 11:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by fa8362 View Post

IMO, a $299 player price is largely irrelevant when you don't have Disney, Fox, Sony or MGM content.

It remains to be seen if the general public agrees with you. I know $299 is still too high a price point for me, but I think prices (for HD DVD players) will hit my price range (<$200) before too long and hopefully Blu-ray will within a year after HD DVD.
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post #7 of 142
3/20/07 at 11:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by fa8362 View Post

IMO, a $299 player price is largely irrelevant when you don't have Disney, Fox, Sony or MGM content.

Perfect reason why putting more players in the home will bring Disney! (MAYBE MGM but lastly Fox THEN Sony)
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post #8 of 142
3/20/07 at 11:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baronken View Post

It remains to be seen if the general public agrees with you. I know $299 is still too high a price point for me, but I think prices (for HD DVD players) will hit my price range (<$200) before too long and hopefully Blu-ray will within a year after HD DVD.

Not really. Most of the general public is married with kids. No Disney = I don't think we should buy this. Add in no Fox, Sony and MGM = no sale.
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post #9 of 142
3/20/07 at 11:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by fa8362 View Post

Not really. Most of the general public is married with kids.

True, but most kids aren't buying HD, and most of the general public isn't going to double dip for kiddie movies.
J
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post #10 of 142
3/20/07 at 11:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big J View Post

True, but most kids aren't buying HD, and most of the general public isn't going to double dip for kiddie movies.
J

When informed people make their buying decisions, they think about how they're going to use what they're buying. Why buy something that won't play 30-50% of the product (HD movies) potentially available?
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post #11 of 142
3/20/07 at 11:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by fa8362 View Post

Not really. Most of the general public is married with kids. No Disney = I don't think we should buy this. Add in no Fox, Sony and MGM = no sale.

Actually animation upconverts amazingly well with all of the HD DVD players, and that'swhat most people think aboout when they hear Disney.

Again most consumers don't know what studios movies come from. If they see enough on the shelf to support a buying decision then that's ok.

Its funny that the best upconversion comes with recent special effects movies and animation which is exactly the movies Fox Soney and Disney have. HD DVD players coincidently upconvert those recent and animatd Blu-ray exclusive titles better than the older catalog titles.
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post #12 of 142
3/20/07 at 11:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baronken View Post

It remains to be seen if the general public agrees with you. I know $299 is still too high a price point for me, but I think prices (for HD DVD players) will hit my price range (<$200) before too long and hopefully Blu-ray will within a year after HD DVD.

I think the price of the discs at this point are more of an issue than the price of the players (obviously the players have to get to a reasonable level for mass adoption). I have guys that work for me that could afford both a Blu-Ray player and an HD DVD Player, but refuse to purchase either because of the price of content...they are used to and want catalog titles at ~$10 or less and new releases in the $15 to $20 range.
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post #13 of 142
3/20/07 at 11:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnGadget
At just about the one year anniversary of the format war, it looks like Toshiba is throwing the next punch. HD DVD will be one step closer to that magic price point of $299, with that latest update of the MSRP of their HD DVD players. According to a few retailers at the AVSFroum on April 1st Toshiba will change the MSRP and the least expensive model; the A2 will now have an MSRP of $399. The A2 isn't the only model with a new price, as the other two models see a drop as well, the A20 will be $499 and finally the high end model, the XA2 for $799. So if price was the only thing stopping you from getting in the HD DVD game and the Xbox360 add-on just isn't your style, then now might just be the time. Of course some of you will still be waiting for the $600 Blu-ray player instead.

or distilled further:

Quote:
HD DVD will be one step closer to that magic price point of $299.....

So if price was the only thing stopping you from getting in the HD DVD game and the Xbox360 add-on just isn't your style, then now might just be the time.

Of course some of you will still be waiting for the $600 Blu-ray player instead

gotta love that sarcasm
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post #14 of 142
3/20/07 at 12:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kitzi View Post

I think the price of the discs at this point are more of an issue than the price of the players (obviously the players have to get to a reasonable level for mass adoption). I have guys that work for me that could afford both a Blu-Ray player and an HD DVD Player, but refuse to purchase either because of the price of content...they are used to and want catalog titles at ~$10 or less and new releases in the $15 to $20 range.

I think people ( and the studios) will be comfortable with $19.99 street pricing for catalog releases and DVD level pricing ($29.99 or less) for new day and date releases.

That's the pricing I expect on the street by Christmas. I can get most HD DVD titles now for near that price wth my 10% Amazon discount with free shipping.
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post #15 of 142
3/20/07 at 12:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosty View Post

Actually animation upconverts amazingly well with all of the HD DVD players, and that'swhat most people think aboout when they hear Disney.

Again most consumers don't know what studios movies come from. If they see enough on the shelf to support a buying decision then that's ok.

Its funny that the best upconversion comes with recent special effects movies and animation which is exactly the movies Fox Soney and Disney have. HD DVD players coincidently upconvert those recent and animatd Blu-ray exclusive titles better than the older catalog titles.

Well, apparently the majority isn't seeing enough on the shelf to support an HD-DVD buying decision. Lower pricing isn't going to change that. HD-DVD players have always been priced lower, but that didn't stop this from happening:

http://www.dvdempire.com/Content/Fea...hidef_wars.asp
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post #16 of 142
3/20/07 at 12:04pm
I was talking about the buying decision to buy a HD player not disc sales.
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post #17 of 142
3/20/07 at 12:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosty View Post

I was talking about the buying decision to buy a HD player not disc sales.

If more HD-DVD players had been bought, this wouldn't exist:

http://www.dvdempire.com/Content/Fea...hidef_wars.asp
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post #18 of 142
3/20/07 at 12:07pm
100,000 copies of Casino Royale sold in its first week, embarrassing any sort of one week sales by any HD DVD title, would suggest that people aren't waiting for $600 players, they already bought one in the PS3.
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post #19 of 142
3/20/07 at 12:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosty View Post

I think people ( and the studios) will be comfortable with $19.99 street pricing for catalog releases and DVD level pricing ($29.99 or less) for new day and date releases.

That's the pricing I expect on the street by Christmas. I can get most HD DVD titles now for near that price wth my 10% Amazon discount with free shipping.

I'm comfortable with current prices (although I'm buying less than I normally would, especially since I've stopped purchasing SD DVD)...I have no scientific poll, but I've got 3 folks really into movies working for me that just haven't bought in yet to either format because if disc prices...one just this week bought an Oppo for $240 + shipping instead of spending the extra $150 to pick up an A2 and his sole reason is because of disc prices (this is a guy with 800 DVDs, that prefers catalog titles and not afraid to double dip for improvements)...anecdotal I know...
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post #20 of 142
3/20/07 at 12:09pm
As has been mentioned here, HD DVD players can already be had for under $300. In some people's books this was the 'magic barrier.' If $200 is the barrier now, and granted for many it always was, it'll be interesting to see what happens when HD DVD does indeed get down to that price.

I think that HD DVD is quickly being stigmitized as the "other" format though, and many a person won't purchase into something that they feel is a dead end bet, no matter how low the price of entry. I wish HD DVD the best with cheap players and April 15th efforts; if the format ends up winning, hey I'll be buying in. But in spite of this news, every day I feel more comfortable that my investment in Blu-ray has been the prudent one, and that that day won't come.
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post #21 of 142
3/20/07 at 12:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fa8362 View Post

When informed people make their buying decisions, they think about how they're going to use what they're buying. Why buy something that won't play 30-50% of the product (HD movies) potentially available?

Yet, you bought into BR. Nice change of subject.
Welcome to my ignore list.
J
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post #22 of 142
3/20/07 at 12:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big J View Post

Yet, you bought into BR. Nice change of subject.
Welcome to my ignore list.
J

I bought BD because it has significantly more studio support. I didn't force you to choose the format with significantly less studio support...you made that decision on your own.
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post #23 of 142
3/20/07 at 12:19pm
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Originally Posted by xbdestroya View Post

As has been mentioned here, HD DVD players can already be had for under $300. In some people's books this was the 'magic barrier.' If $200 is the barrier now, and granted for many it always was, it'll be interesting to see what happens when HD DVD does indeed get down to that price.

I think that HD DVD is quickly being stigmitized as the "other" format though, and many a person won't purchase into something that they feel is a dead end bet, no matter how low the price of entry. I wish HD DVD the best with cheap players and April 15th efforts; if the format ends up winning, hey I'll be buying in. But in spite of this news, every day I feel more comfortable that my investment in Blu-ray has been the prudent one, and that that day won't come.

I think either format's survival is now insured.

If you posting here and don't actually own a player yet, then you have some serious priority issues.

I own an HD DVD player (an HD XA2) now and I eventually plan to buy a Blu-ray player when the price is right and I can buy a player that has BD-Live capability in t at a reasonable price to play those pesky BD only titles. But I can live with upconversion for now.
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post #24 of 142
3/20/07 at 12:21pm
xbedestroy,

I
Quote:


think that HD DVD is quickly being stigmitized as the "other" format though, and many a person won't purchase into something that they feel is a dead end bet, no matter how low the price of entry. I wish HD DVD the best with cheap players and April 15th efforts; if the format ends up winning, hey I'll be buying in. But in spite of this news, every day I feel more comfortable that my investment in Blu-ray has been the prudent one, and that that day won't come.

I think that 95% of the population doesnt know the difference. If you asked them it would be "Huh?". the only stigma is in the dreams of bd supporters on HT forums.
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post #25 of 142
3/20/07 at 12:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fa8362 View Post

If more HD-DVD players had been bought, this wouldn't exist:

http://www.dvdempire.com/Content/Fea...hidef_wars.asp

You have much to learn youn padawan

Those stats are us av geeks. We dont decide the war, average consumer does.
Average consumer sees cheap HDDVD player, and a row of movies.

War is far from over, and cheaper HDDVD makes it all that harder for it to end.
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post #26 of 142
3/20/07 at 12:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fa8362 View Post

Well, apparently the majority isn't seeing enough on the shelf to support an HD-DVD buying decision. Lower pricing isn't going to change that. HD-DVD players have always been priced lower, but that didn't stop this from happening:

http://www.dvdempire.com/Content/Fea...hidef_wars.asp

And if the PS3 hadn't been priced at $400.00 - $500.00 cheaper than BR players where do think BR would be today? I can tell you, no where!
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post #27 of 142
3/20/07 at 12:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by george king View Post

xbedestroy,

I

I think that 95% of the population doesnt know the difference. If you asked them it would be "Huh?". the only stigma is in the dreams of bd supporters on HT forums.

That's probably true, but 95% of the population isn't in the market for an HD player. If you look only at the people considering buying an HD player in the immediate future, what he said might be accurate.
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post #28 of 142
3/20/07 at 12:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urza View Post

You have much to learn youn padawan

Those stats are us av geeks. We dont decide the war, average consumer does.
Average consumer sees cheap HDDVD player, and a row of movies.

War is far from over, and cheaper HDDVD makes it all that harder for it to end.

I disagree. In my 30 years of electronic marketing experience, I've never witnessed the average consumer decide anything. By the time the average consumer gets around to buying, the studios and retailers will have already decided which HD format will remain.
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post #29 of 142
3/20/07 at 12:34pm
Thread Starter 
Well, if we look at this from the viewpoint of potential market, this isn't J6P.

I recall an industry estimate someplace of HDTV penetration in the USA as being around 13% as of end of 2006. So there goes 87% of the population.

Of those, probably better than half don't own an HDTV large enough to see much of a visible difference between good upscaled DVD vs. 1080 content (at least, not enough of a difference to be paying $20-40 per title).

So yes, we're probably really only talking about 5% of the population of the USA who have even the potential to care about high definition content right now. This demographic is going to skew much more heavily to higher income levels, so if we're looking at the bell curve of innovation, I'd say that this market is comprised heavily of innovators plus a chunk of early mass adopters.
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post #30 of 142
3/20/07 at 12:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosty View Post

Actually animation upconverts amazingly well with all of the HD DVD players, and that'swhat most people think aboout when they hear Disney.

Again most consumers don't know what studios movies come from. If they see enough on the shelf to support a buying decision then that's ok.

Its funny that the best upconversion comes with recent special effects movies and animation which is exactly the movies Fox Soney and Disney have. HD DVD players coincidently upconvert those recent and animatd Blu-ray exclusive titles better than the older catalog titles.

So HD-DVD's best hope is an ignorant public?

These days the public are a little more clued up, especally those interested in HD at this very early stage.
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