Suggestions for double DIN Navigation?

The Avic-D3 from Pioneer is a pretty nice double din piece. It's got stuff like XM NavTraffic, Bluetooth, Ipod Ready and a lot more. It retails for around $1000. The biggest complaint I've seen with these units is the single drive in it. So to watch a DVD, you have to take the Nav CD out and replace it, and then switch it back when you're ready to use the Nav again.

The other option is the Z1 that retails for a little over 2000. It has a hdd built into it to eliminate the need for switching CDs/DVDs, and it has two drives in it.

The new Kenwood DNX7100 has caught my eye. However, I can not find too much information on it

The Navigation functionality continues while you are playing a DVD or iPOD movie...

We went on a long trip this past weekend and after plotting our destination ejected the NAV DVD and put on a movie. The unit performed well in 'memory NAV mode'

Let me know if you want more details but in my use so far the other functionality and price far outweighs any concerns about the limitation here.

I have an Eclipse 5435, which I bought when they first came out. There was also a version with a hard drive, as well, but I didn't feel it worth it. Key funtions include Nav, CD/MP3 playback, DVD playback. No XM for me, so I can't use the Traffic functions. Multiple pre-outs are great if you plan to install amps, etc. I love the headunit, and wouldn't give it up without a fight!

The unit has two drives - one for the Nav disc / DVD, and another for CDs. You can listen to music and have the nav going at the same time. The nice lady speaks to me, to tell me where to turn, etc. without interupting musing (the music volume lowers and she tells you to turn in 1/4 mile, etc.).

Here's a picture when I was test fitting (slightly cleaner install since):

I have it. Here are my thoughts:

PROS
- It uses Garmin navigation & SiRFstar III chipset.
- It supports WAAS, which really does improve tracking accuracy.
- Route calculation, and recalculation, is very fast.
- Voice commands are loud and clear (but volume must first be set in the main UI menu, not just the Garmin menu)
- It stores its maps internally so you don't need to have a map DVD in the drive.
- You can load custom points of interest from a data file using an SD card. There are now POI websites where users share databases of red light cameras, favorite restaurants, ham radio repeaters, etc. You can set the nav system to warn you when approaching one of these points, or help you find one.
- It supports realtime traffic from both XM and TMC (FM). The TMC traffic option is noteworthy because it's considerably cheaper than an XM Traffic subscription.
- AM radio audio quality is better than average.
- It's bluetooth, satellite and HD-radio ready.
- You can plug a flash drive into its USB jack and it will play audio files right from the drive.
- iPod integration on this model is reportedly excellent (I don't use an iPod though).
- It plays DiVX and VCD discs.
- It doesn't require wiring to the vehicle speed sensor.
- Bypassing the DVD lockout is much easier on this model than on an AVIC.

CONS
- FM presets sometimes don't stick on the first try when saving stations (software bug?)
- FM tuner seems more susceptible to multipath than others I've heard, but on the other hand it does have good sensitivity.
- You have to go through too many menus to get to some commands like the panel tilt function.
- The UI isn't particularly stylish. I haven't played with custom wallpapers yet though, so maybe that will improve the look a bit.
- No voice input for navigation.
- The face isn't detachable so it's a theft magnet, but I think this is common to all double-din nav units.

But those cons are nitpicks on an otherwise nice unit. Anything else you want to know?

Thanks for the info. It does seem like the winner as of right now. Not getting it until the summer.

Do you have anymore info on the websites and SD card? I had read something about it, but don't fully understand

thanks!

Here's a link to an article that describes it. You'll also find links to the POI sites in the article:

http://www.gpsinformation.org/penrod...poiloader.html

It will play MP3, WMA and AAC files from CD, DVD or a USB device. I think it even supports portable USB hard drives (the USB-powered notebook type), although I haven't tried yet.

Unfortunately it won't recognize WAV, AIFF, FLAC, OFGG, SHORTEN or anything else beside the three I mentioned, but I'm not too concerned about that. You can always plug in an MP3 player that supports those formats if that's what you use.


Don't all the big manufacturers release their new gear in February? This one is a brand new model, and so is the Pioneer AVIC D3 mentioned earlier. I think all the gear for 2007 is on the market now.

The new Pioneer Z2 is about to come out in a couple of weeks (says tweeter). Its going to be about 2000.00

I am in the same boat. Look at the Alipine. There were a couple of things that bothered me about a couple of units. One thing I dont like is putting in a damn CD every time I want to find a location. Thats annoying. Plus, you always run the chance of the CD getting lost or scratched. Alpine GPS is a standalone unit that plugs into their headunit so you can use it in different cars. Are you going to watch DVD's or have multiple screens? I am not going to have multiple screens through the car and I dont watch movies in the car either. As a matter of fact, I can put money on it that I wont watch a single one. If I want to watch a movie, Ill go to my theater room in the basement. Last year, I saw a Kenwood that used a SD RAM card for all its mapping software. My wife is going to be using the car too and she is..should I say...Technically challenged. The simpler, the better....My question is about quality...

Which has better sound quality? Alpine? Pioneer? Eclipse?
Ease of operation of the actual radio? Navi?
Screen brightness? Which one has a better screen?
I use an Ipod ALL the time? Which interface works better with IPOD? SIRUS? XM?
LAG time! I heard the Z1 has considerable lag time between options?





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Ive been looking around for any articles that compare indash navigation but I cant find any.

I will also chime in on the Pioneer AVIC-D3 unit by saying it is a very nice unit. I just bought mine from Crutchfield for $1000 which included a $250 - rear video camera at no additional cost.

I have it mounted in my '05 Focus ZX3 and it almost looks like it came there from the factory. I love how clean the unit itself looks, but yet it is very functional with plenty of features to satisfy most users.

the above post about having to remove one CD to use the other DVD on navigation doesn't know what he's talking about (well, at least not 100% anyway). I say this because I can stick in my nav DVD and choose a home area which is pretty big. after that, I can remove the nav DVD and start playing regular CDs and the navigation system works just fine in the memory mode just like someone mentioned earlier.

that being that, I will tell you that this unit is pretty hard to beat for the money. especially when you get the free $250 camera from Crutchfield.

How big is the Home area? I travel all through D.C., M.D., a parts of VA. What made you choose the D3?

Oh no, my home area isn't that big.

My area consists of the Orlando area. now grant it I don't travel too far outside the city limits so that may be the reason why I don't need to use the navigation DVD too often.

as far as what made me choose the D3? the main selling point(s) were the useful reviews at Crutchfield. that and the fact that it came with a $250 (for free) was also a big thing in the D3's favor. those little cameras aren't cheap so the fact that they included it for free was great.

the other thing I like about the D3 is how great it looks in my '05 Focus. it almost looks like it came stock which is something I love. the unit itself has umpteen features and options which I also love.

overall, it's just a very nice unit for the money. quite possibly the best in it's MSRP range.

And the savings doesnt end there! You can combine the free camera offer with a $20 refer-a-friend discount (if you havent purchased from crutchfield before). Feel free to use mine: pcqrw-jcar0-4tuwf OR head over to avic411.com for many more.

ALSO: With the purchase of the D3 headunit and two other pioneer items above $49 bucks, you can combine all the above with discount code 3A185 for an additonal 15% off! If you were to sell the free camera, you would have just gotten a new D3 for about the best price online from an authorized pioneer dealer. You even get free shipping standard.

(Can you tell I'm excited?)

PS: if one of your $49+ items was an XM tuner, use the XMSCION03 code online for free activation, and first three months free from XM.

No, I do not work for XM or crutchfield - just thought someone might benefit from all the possible savings here. You just cant beat these deals.



Regarding the stored home area, the following is straight out of the manual:
When the route distance is 74.5mi (120 km) or shorter, a zone with a width of approximately 10.9 mi (17.5 km) around the route is stored. When the route distance is longer than 74.5 mi (120 km), a zone with a width of approximately 6.6 mi (10.6 km) around the route is recorded.

--Eric

Nifty...

this
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-z3uBfP3...Display=Alpine

and this
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-z3uBfP3...Display=Alpine

The best of both worlds. portable nav when you need it but then you dock the nav into the special docking location behind the face and you have indash navigation.

Plus alpine is easier to bypass the e-brake wire if you wqant to be able to watch a dvd while driving.

Actually the Blackbird shown in the link is the B100 --the one that docks in the W205 is the B200. No pricing or availability has been announced yet. I've been trying to order one through my installer but the distributor can't even place the order through Alpine. It may be a while.....

I just purchased this unit as well and have it setup with the Sirius module. I haven't tested out all the functions thoroughly yet, but some things are a little troubling and I hope that these may be cleared up with a future firmware update. Initial impressions:

• Absolutely Terrific Nav unit based on the Garmin C550. Nav is the are where a lot of the Double-DIN units have fallen short and Garmin units continue to be best in class for speed, accuracy, and options.

• My first try at using the USB support was surprising. It plays music data flawlessly in the display including album art if it is embedded in the tag. However other files advertised as playable from USB did not. On my USB Key include some photos (it is supposed to be able to play a .jpg slide show), and a video. The photo directories were enabled in the folder browser, but you could not "play" files beyond that. The video folder was completely disabled. I did speak to Kenwood tech support about the video issue and they said that yes, indeed, it should play videos from the USB source but it is "very particular" about the format which must match exactly the formats in the manual. I re-encoded the video and tried again but it still didn't work (although I was using the Xvid encoder). I'm going to try again using the real Divx encoder and also trying MPEG video formats.

• My first attempt at playing a data DVD also failed. I loaded a DVD+R with music, video, and pictures (similarly to the USB Key). This only produced a "read error" on the DVD. I've tried mastering the DVD with different software and will report the results.

• Commercial DVD playback is somewhat quirky in the controls. This may be a situation where you're better off using the remote than trying to do it with the touch-screen. The menu control functions are very difficult to use. You can operate the DVD menus using the intermediate playback overlay and using the arrow keys to select menu items then pressing "enter". You can "touch" menu items by switching to "highlight" mode but it is not very precise at selecting items. (When I say "intermediate" overlay - there are basically 3 control schemes available for every A/V source. There is a mininimal or blank control where you see only your background and control the source by tapping unmarked (i.e. you need to memorize where they are) zones on the display, there is an intermediate scheme which overlays the video with most of the basic controls, and there is a full control mode which replaces the video with a full interface of options.

• Satellite Radio playback is great. It is a real pleasure to navigate the satellite with full control options and the ability to see all of the extended data. The DNX7100 was an upgrade from the Kenwood EZ500 head unit with integrated Sirius receiver. On the EZ500 navigating through channels and categories took numerous confusing button presses. In addition, since there was only one display line you would have to cycle through different pieces if you wanted to see the Artist, Album, or other extended information. The DNX7100's satellite interface comes the closest in ease-of-use to a dedicated PNP unit that I've seen.

..rob

Hey Carnivore or bitbearmi, I'm trying to decide on in dash navigation too, thinking about the alpine mentioned earlier or the kenwood you guys have, and have a couple questions maybe you cad answer.

When playing mp3s from usb, does it resume where you left off last time when you start the car? Does it support any type of playlists?

Also, do you know if the dolby digital output works? In the install manual it says 'do not connect' or something like that.

Do either of you have the HD radio addon? If so how's that work?

Did you get mp3 dvdr to work? Do they resume also?

Thanks for the question. I should have posted an update of my experience with the unit. Since that time I have done several things with the unit and have additional reports:

USB Support: Attached USB storage devices (other than an iPod, which I'll discuss separately) will support music only. In addition, you would be wise to limit the USB drive to smaller thumb drives instead of hard disks. The reason is two-fold. First the power supplied to the USB device is at the very minimum of the USB specification. This means that many USB-powered hard drives will not function properly. Secondly, each time the unit boots it creates an index of the drive using the MP3 tags. This index takes approximately 45 seconds per GB of storage, so a 20GB device may take as long as 20 minutes before you will see its entire contents. As far as Resume is concerned, the player will resume at the last file being played in most cases. It is inconsistent whether it starts at the exact exit point (middle of a song) or at the start of the file - its done both and I can't explain why it does it differently one time vs. another.

iPOD Support: If you plan on having a large music libarary, or want to play videos from portable storage, then the iPOD support is the way to go. 5G (video) iPODS are supported using a special USB cable - A/V Cable. The iPOD is connected via its DOCK connector, then the opposite 3-prong ends are connected to the USB connection, and the special iPOD A/V in connections extending from the back of the head unit. Note that this is a little quirky because the iPOD A/V cables are shorter than the USB cable. I was unable to reach my glove-box in my 2006 Expedition with the iPOD cables, while the USB cable reaches just fine. Fortunately the iPOD cable was just long enough to get the A/V ends over to the iPOD connections.

The iPOD connection bypasses the issues with the standard USB connection because the DNX7100 is can read the iPOD's indexing system. This means you will have instant access to the songs, photos, videos, genres, artists, etc. Because the iPOD cable uses a separate A/V out you will be able to play both DRM and non-DRM content. Since videos and photos aren't supported over the standard USB, this is the only way to go for detachable content.

HD Radio: The HD Radio module is available very inexpensively for the DNX7100. Like all of the Kenwood modules it installs easily with a single cable that carries all of the control and power from the head unit so you don't have any external wiring harness to tie into! Very Easy. You move the antenna input from the head unit to the HD Radio module as the "Radio" section of the tuner is replaced completely with the HD Radio functionality. When setting up the HD Radio tuning you can set the radio for "Digital Only", "Analog Only", or "Auto". In "Auto" mode the tuner will select the strongest signal (Digital or Analog) for the selected frequency. Like the standard radio tuner, the HD Radio also annoyingly does not allow for direct entry of stations by frequency - you have to scan to each station then make your presets. HD Radio (especially AM) sounds great! AM broadcasts, like news, sound like the announcers are sitting in the car with you.

There are two GIANT quirks to the HD Radio module. First, the volume levels of the HD Radio output are attenuated about 15% from the rest of the head unit. Since the DNX7100 does not store volume by source, this means lowering and raising the volume each time you switch to the HD Radio. The second major flaw is a bug in the DNX7100's control firmware for the HD Radio which prevents program meta-data (Other than station ID) from being displayed. You will see the program data "flash" quickly on the display when you change frequencies, and then clear and not update as the programs change. Other DNX7100 users in other forums have reported the same problem. In addition the same HD Radio Module connected to any other Kenwood head unit operates properly - isolating the problem specifically to the DNX7100. Kenwood support currently denies the issue, and until they do a firmware update is unlikely.

DVD R/RW Support & DivX: My initial DVD+R did not read in the unit because of a formatting issue. I recorded the DVD+R data using Windows Vista's default DVD burner. The problem with this is the format defaults to DVD-UDF. The DNX7100 will only read DVD-ISO format. Once I created DVD+R and DVD+RW's using Nero, everything worked fine. The unit was somewhat less picky about DivX videos than I had anticipated, playing both true DivX and XVid videos. It seems that any true DivX enconded file will play. Some Xvid files are not recognized, so if you want to be totally sure, you may have to re-encode downloaded Xvid content using the true DivX Codec.

DVD R/RWs encoded in video format also play fine. Data DVDs in ISO format play all tested formats video formats (DivX & MPG-1 & MPG-2). MP3 & WMA data play fine as well, however Album Art is not displayed when playing from a DVD even if is in the ID3 tag. JPG photos on the DVD will play as a slide show. The resume function works in the same way as it does with the USB and iPOD with the same quirk of sometimes starting at the stopping point and sometimes starting at the beginning of the last file.

Bluetooth Module: The Kenwood bluetooth module attaches easily in the same manner as the HD Radio. The Bluetooth module also has an external microphone with a long lead that will let you mount in an optimal location. Once the pairing is accomplished the Bluetooth works flawlessly with the phone, muting the radio when incoming calls occur and allowing you to answer from the screen. The Bluetooth unit has its own phone-independant phone book which can be programmed and/or downloaded from some phones. Audio quality is very good both on the sending and receiving side with excellent noise-cancelling that removes any trace of road noise on the receiving end.

I was disappointed with a few things about the bluetooth module, and they may be limitations of my Sprint LG Fusic phone. First the phonebook data wouldn't transfer to the unit from the phone (although it syncs via bluetooth fine to/from Outlook on my computer). Next, incoming calls do not display the Caller ID information on the screen. Finally, there are no voice-dial capabilities exposed. You can't go "off hook" with the phone without dialing/selecting a phone number on the display. If this worked the voice-dial function in the phone would be available (like it is with a bluetooth headset).

Garmin FM Traffic w/ GTM-10: If you live in a market that supports traffic monitoring, you can connect an XM (expensive) or FM (cheaper) traffic system. The XM system offers more features (including weather and news), but the traffic functions are identical. The GTM-10 unit is a tiny little receiver that connects in-line with the radio antenna. (I used an antenna splitter, but inline connectors are included). A mini-USB cable then connects to the traffic input on the back of the head unit. Initializing the GTM-10 for the first time gives you an instant 3-month free traffic service. You get an additional 12 months free when you "register" the unit for the first time on Garmin web site. After that traffic updates are $60/year.

When the Nav unit boots it immediately aquires traffic data which is suprisingly instantaneous. You can view traffic alerts by proximity on the Nav screens, and the unit will alert you to traffic conditions as you drive (Voice "Traffic Ahead" is played and an icon on the screen lets you see details). If you have your options set to route around traffic your route will be adjusted automatically. (Note that you have to be ON a programmed routing not driving "freestyle" - but that makes sense).

That is it for my DNX 7100 accessories. I don't have the TV Tuner, CD Changer, Backup Camera, or External Control units so I can't comment on those. Hopefully Kenwood will get a firmware update out to fix the few, but annoying quirks.

..rob

Terrific summary! I don't have anything to add except that I was told by Kenwood support that the firmware of the DNX7100 is not user upgradable. The only way to upgrade the unit's firmware (other than the Garmin software which is upgradable) is to replace the unit. If you've heard otherwise, please let us know.

That may also explain Kenwood's reluctance to admit the bug with the HD Radio module, although if it's a reproducible problem I don't see how they can deny it. On the subject of the HD Radio module, I also understand it doesn't support RDS data on analog FM signals -- has that also been your observation? Perhaps Kenwood will fix these issues in the next version of their HD radio module. I hope so, as I plan to add one to my system and it would be nice to see it function properly.

Well that explains a lot. Yes, the FM Analog RDS data works fine with the built-in tuner. With the HD Tuner - no data (Analog or Digital) for RDS. It really sucks! The reports are that the same HD Tuner used with another head unit works properly. The report is from eopinions. Write me for the link because I don't have enough posts here to post links.

Here is the link to the Epinions reviews. Thanks bitbearmi.

I've been wanting to buy the DNX7100 for a little while now, but now that they stated that the firmware is not user upgradeable, I'm wondering if I should wait for the updated units. hmmmm?

DNX7100 is a really nice unit, the firmware issues are mainly nitpicks. I wouldn't that stand in the way of getting one. In the worst case scenario if you end up with a firmware issue that you just can't live with, get it "serviced" just before the warranty expires. By that time they'll probably be able to upgrade your firmware ROM to the final version.

By the way I believe bitbearmi is wrong on one point in his review. The DNX7100 CAN store volume by source, it's in the Audio menu labeled Vol.Offset.

Also I think the missing FM RDS data with the HD Radio tuner is not a firmware bug, but is because the add-on HD Radio module doesn't support RDS. That's with analog FM though, the text issue with HD stations does sound firmware related. I've decided to just wait and see if Kenwood comes up with an improved HD Radio tuner module for the 2008 model year.

Hi

I am interesting in DNX7100, but like I live outside USA I want to know if I can load Maps in the unit?

Regards

Jorge