Tweeter closing down all California stores! - Page 2  

I think the posts here that assert Tweeter's problem as failing to carve out a space in the middle of the market is dead on. Mid-Fi is all about value. And better value can be found online from internet distributors and internet direct companies. Tweeter's reorganization is proof that the business model for B&M mid-fi is broken. Further proof, if needed, can be found in their stock price: $10,000 invested in Tweeter five years ago is worth just $750 today.

PE, a good point and one I am glad you brought up. The stock thing remined me about about the obsolescence of gear today and how IMO that has not helped either. If you are going to invest $10K in gear that is technically obsolete in a year or two that is not going to help. I know there are upgrades and such but it seems that gear becomes more obsolete much quicker than it did years ago. Prices on panels come down by the month etc...

That has to be another factor nibbling away at the higher end gear and to some extent some lower.

And yet there is still a market for a fantastic $20k, 60", Plasma Panel.


Two points:
1.) Some of these places aren't even providing the opportunity to play with the gear much.

2.)While Tweeter and BB aren't the places to find them, do you think there might be anything to be learned or gained from interacting with someone who has hooked up thousands of systems in his many, many years in the business?

I bought my first system from Tweeter, although I think it was back before they were called Tweeter. Whatever their original name was.

I think first time buyers looking to get into home theater is exactly the market they're in. I knew enough to stay away from CC and the like, but I still wanted middle of the road equipment at a decent price. The guy who helped me out was nice and gave me good advice. He even spent an hour or so on the phone helping me get it setup. I had no problem with their service, but I never bought anything else from them. When I replaced that equipment I went to online sources, Outlaw and SVS.

I think they had a kind of identity crisis there for a while, not really sure exactly which segment of the market they wanted to be in. That really hurt them.

You are exactly right. Sustainable management focuses on two ways to sell product--cost reduction and product differentiation. Cost reduction focuses on commody based, high volume output. Product differentiation is about brand loyalty, image, and better quality. I remember reading an article by Harvard Professor Michael Porter when he claimed that businesses should focus on one or the other, and if they try to focus on being somewhere in the middle, their chances of succeeding are slim to none.

Coatesville, Parksburg, Lancaster?
They were called Bryn Mawr.

In Massachusetts, we've got a few TWEETERS closing - however I hope the chain itself survives

Tweeter was one of the few vendors in the United States offering Dolby surround receivers in the mid 1980's at a time when other regional electronics chains - had not even heard of the technology. I remember paying 500 dollars around that time for an NEC model - probably about 1500 in today's dollars

Over the years I've bought a number of other a/v devices, but in recent years they've seem to be just pushing overpriced brands

TWEETER is a great store for the blank check crowd w/o much specific knowledge of various equipment - that just wants a system installed w/o worry or concern about overpaying by huge amounts.

Their biggest problem in recent years has been their intentional moratorium on high performance/low cost HD front projectors like the best selling Panansonic AE700/900 class - instead preferring to train their salesman to pretend such high performance is not possible at low such low costs.

Because the salespersons were on commission - they were more knowledgable than Big Box stores - however I did have one last year try to tell me that a regular person with a 1080p TV could actually pick up 1080p programs via Satellite feeds

In our area, both the TWEETER and the MAGNOLIA have ripped out the meager (token) ceiling mounted (never on, hope no one notices) HD front projectors -with the local Circuit City actually running (in high light conditions) one of the worst 480p displays I've ever seen

Tweeter could never compete in the lower class of projector so decided to thumb their noses at it. If they had put up an AE900 in thier showroom it would have canabalized their more profitable Big Screen sales. They were better of lying.

TWEETER w/o a doubt made a good business decision to keep the margins high and avoid most front projectors -especially the high performance/low cost HD models that arrived like a tidal wave around yr 2004. Obviously they didn't want their ready-to-buy plasma buyers second guessing their decision - after looking at optimally configured twice the size display/half the cost HD projectors in a theater demo room

Why sabotage the basic business model with a device typically weighing less than 10 lbs and near ideal for shipping via low margin/high volume internet vendors

Their strategy then became (where necessary) to actually have a single higher priced model in a room (invariably poorly setup and rarely turned on) with no price tag - that way the plasma would believe he had his bases covered

"Oh yes, we got projectors, here's a Sony, it's 10k" - making his 5k plasma look good

If I were running their company, I would have probably done that same thing, as margins (not sales volume) is the name of the game

The only downside is over time it introduced a fundamental dishonesty to the business model by (in effect) keeping customers mis-informed about what was actually occuring with front projector technology, and in some case keeping their salepersons mis-informed

It is true many buyers for various reasons would not be suitable for front projection -however in TWEETERs case, most buyers were kept ignorant in part due to Tweeters strategy even though TWEETER insisted they were offering state of the art technologies

I wouldn't try to guess why Tweeter choose the business model, but it sure didn't fail due to poor front projector sales. Nor did it even hurt them in the least little bit.

From a company stand point, it certainly is much easier to install a plasma or other flat panel compared to a front projector system.

As for having an expensive (?) projector connected in their store, it is a standard selling practise in every retail establishment, everywhere. Stereos, diamonds, it doesn't matter. You show the best (or better) and it is easy to downsell, than it is to upsell.

As for the customer base, they were caught in the middle. couldn't go full custom and couldn't compete with BB or CC.

It is never company policy to lie to the customer. The salesperson my be missinformed but i don't blame them, i blame the person whotrained them. Usually other salespeople. Anybody remember the fiasco when plasmas came out and the whole refueling and recharging thing?

I feel sorry for all of the empoyees of Tweeters and offer my condolences. I know that it will be hard to find another postion in the same field due to the shrinking dealer base.

Best wishes to all employees,
ifor

I am a bottomfeeder, catfish, etc. I do what is said above, but after playing with the gear, I take my money out the door and go the internet. Yep, I am what's wrong tweeter. I can't help it. Often, I buy used, so I really need tweeter and the like to stick around so people that actually buy stuff at MSRP can pass it on to me at less than half the price.

I have bought from boutique shops, and like them, but still typically only buy deeply discounted closeouts or returned stuff.

I know I am part of the problem, but I can't help it.

First off i work at the Mission Viejo, CA store. 2nd i totally respect the fact u are willing to admit that. And honestly I can say myself I do this. I go into stores look at the gear or thing i want to buy and go shop online. The one thing i always respected a customer more for was when they told me this. I had no problem giving this person information or helping them out. I mean that is why we have a store front. But at least this way if a customer comes in a can step away and help them out so i can at least make my paycheck. The worst is when people go in and bug for an hour just to blow u off as to no reason why they are buying.

Anyways. thanks for the support guys, and yes unfortuanatly there is no room in the mid-fi entertainment world for anyone but ther internet

Josh

"As for having an expensive (?) projector connected in their store, it is a standard selling practise in every retail establishment, everywhere. Stereos, diamonds, it doesn't matter. You show the best (or better) and it is easy to downsell, than it is to upsell."

Not in New England

I routinely visit many Best Buys, Circuit City stores, and Tweeters in various locales in and around New England - generally going in for 5 minutes at a time, just to check out the latest gear, and I have yet to see a single HD front projector actually up and running with a decent picture - they are often completey ripped out (as in my local area) perhaps sitting in the corner in a heap , not running, of if running - horrendous pictures, and NEVER NEVER with any information on price - and the models (assuming you can even identify them at all) are either very high prices models or relatively low selling obscure models

One exception is Portland, ME in October of 2003 I happened to be in a TWEETER which had a properlty setup ceiling mounted CRT, the old heavyweight 100 lbs plus models - and the picture, showing a football game, was quite good. Of course no model or price info was readily available

TWEETER wasn't forced to downsize (or perhaps fail) because of not showing and running HD front projectors - it failed DESPITE not showing such HD front projectors - because their absence probably kept their margins higher than they otherwise would have been

I bought a significant amount of equipment in TWEETER over the years and no one will ever convince me that a major Panasonic dealer like Tweeter (who claims they have the latest technology) just per chance just overlooked selling and carrying for example the (best selling) Panasonic Front Projectors over the last 3 or 4 years

That decision (w/o any doubt) was intentional, although clearly irrelevant to their present day business situation - not unlike Best Buy's current strategy with front projectors

A well stated summary of exactly the situation and it's one of the reasons I nearly always avoid talking to salespersons - its as if the salepeople are in some kind of alternate reality - a world for example where decent front projectors all cost 10k and nothing has changed over the last 5 to 10 years

I got hired by Tweeter in January. I moved from Texas back to my old home town in Alabama to work there and be with my family. Now I have about six to eight weeks to find a new job. They are opening a new BB/Magnolia near my house in a couple of months, so I might go there and be paid hourly for a while. There are no Mom and Pop places left here, so I hope someone comes in and starts one up.

Re the bottomfeeder/catfish thing: there are customers like that in almost every type of retail business. They don't hurt business, they just provide a little entertainment on a slow day. When I worked at a Mom and Pop in Texas, we had a ton of those guys and we called them "strokers". I still made money and had fun.

I assume this situation will [not] affect Tweeter's on-line (mail-order) sales?

Josh,
I hope you get a new job soon. We scumbag commissioned salesmen need to stick together!

Even if it didn't, Tweeter could only sell a small amount of their merchandise on-line. Most of the gear required an "in-store" purchase.

i have already got a few offers so i am not to worried. I just wish i didnt have to stick around during all this Bull **** in order to get my severence pay

PS. Glad I picke up my vantages, montage, depth, and cinemai. I cant complain. I also have a couple tvs on hold for myself. so i cant complain

After Thursday night when I was in the Greensboro NC Tweeters off Wendover, I can see why they are struggling as well. I have bought two amps and a pre/pro from this store but it was NOW Audio/Video at the time prior to Tweeters buying them out.

NOW would carry a lot of the higher end equipment and have it set up in their demo rooms but Tweeters since they are purchased NOW basically carries most of the mid to low fi equipment and your can demo/audition any of the high end plus Tweeters has dropped a lot of lines since taken over NOW.

They need to get back to what made NOW special as well as fun. Part of the problem is that a lot of high end or mid end dealers are just uncomfortable to walk into. The salesmen are usually just arrogant. Not to knock all high end stores but a majority of them are this way. Every once in a while you come across a good salesmen and this is usually the one you buy from for years.

I completely agree. Actually, just 3-4 years ago, Tweeter was offering some sweet gear. B&K receivers, Sonus Faber speakers, etc. It was great to see and hear this gear as you knew it was gear that was somewhat limited (not available at BB or CC). Now, I'm with you. It's hard to determine their presence when they are selling basically the same gear as the min-Mags and Circuit City (Denon receivers).

I would like to offer an insider's (who saw the writing on the wall) view on some things mentioned.

The internet was a very, very little part and only so much as the general (or percieved) lower prices on the same goods was concerned , and in this regard the Big(er) Box stores were a much, much larger problem.

Advertising and targeting to a segment of the market that is shopping on price and treating these goods as commodities is ultimately only successful if you are going to be the cheapest on the same gear or offer cheaper gear, Tweeter did neither.

Trying to sell install services to these same people who can either barely pay for the equipment itself, or who are so cheap that they'll give up three weeks of evenings to get everything set-up right, or to the hobbyist who believes that they are ultimately going to do a better job than a Tweeter installer, is also a non winning strategy.

Doing a better job of showcasing cheaper product categories (ie; power-point front projectors) is also a loosing proposition, fortunately , this they didn't do.
There are a whole category of tv buyers who are looking for biggest for cheapest (or nearly so) and this has been true since rear projections started apperaring many, many years ago , the differance is that setting up a $2k projector (or any front projector) as opposed to other displays and getting it to look right requires time, money, effort, and a little expertise so the more your store cuts costs and services, the harder that would be to do. Also, the effort put into such a thing for such a small market segment who are looking at such low dollar AND low margin products is not worth the few dollars you MIGHT make , even in the unlikely event that these people want installation and anything approaching hi quality audio (which , again , isn't likely).
Even at Tweeter , years ago when people would come in and ask why we didn't have a slew of square footage and dedicated rooms allocated to these low return sales, we would explain that cheaper commodity items sell themselves (based on numbers and price) while higher quality products need to be shown looking good to demonstrate the better picture and justify the higher price.
This is still the way it is in Boutique stores, the differance being that some will let customers bring in and set-up their own less expensive projectors for comparison purposes.
To date there have only been a VERY few places around the country that has tried to target the "Low Price front projector w/mid-low-fi audio , cheap seats, cheap screen" and from what I know of them, they are failing at it, as , again, this customer is using them to get an idea of what it will look and sound like (demoing station) and then getting a shopping list to take to CompUsa , BB, etc....Even when they are sold their instal teams are not able to generate enough profit (at street prices for instal) to make up for the low dollar, low margin product sales.

Tweeters only hope , years ago, would have been to take the Pro buying Group chiefs around to all the manufacturers of slightly step-up products and say that there will come a day when you all (manufacturers) will realize that without demo facilities your product will get lumped in with all the other commodity goods to be sold on price as no one can show or explain the need to spend more on your stuff than stuff made by Matel , and that Tweeter (and the other members ) would only carry product not available in places that couldn't properly showcase product (Walmart, CompUsa , and on-line would have to be cut-off). The stupidity in not taking that strategy (as many independants have since been doing) has garaunteed that Tweeter would be selling commodity goods and providing slightly better sales staff , slightly better demoing rooms, and at slightly higher (at least perceived) prices.

That was about the time they brought in Judy Tenuda (joking about the name) from Staples to help turn things around, and of course, rather than moving away from a Big Box model, they moved towards it.
Poor management, if they had people with the right vision, it could have worked...if they die they could ultimately take down some others in their buying group.

The things I like about Tweeter is they have some higher end stuff that you don't get at the CC and BB stores. The Tweeters in Vegas have Focal, Martin Logan, Krell, Cambridge. That is what I used to liked about UE. but they quit selling anything from mid to high end. Well UE has Parasound now but they don't and won't sell the Halo line just the classic.

The main problem with Tweeter is they don't have much knowledge of the products that they sell. If I am going to pay at or near retail I want a sales person that knows his products and can show me how to work a Krell showcase pre/pro. And for that reason I will take my 10-12k to another store who can show me the way around the pre/pro that I am interested in.

I have been a long time customer and "catfish" of Tweeter over the last 15+ years! I even worked with Tweeter at their first attempt at being online (the "old" Outpost.com) which is when I learned most of what I know today about home audio/video!!!)

Even today I don't mind paying a tad more then an online retailer for the great feeling of looking and touching the equipment THEN taking said hardware home and having fun :-) But over the last couple years it seems what I ever finally pick to buy - ohh we don't have it in the store but can have it here in 2 days maybe if not less then a week. Granted its not a HUGE time to wait... but if I want to wait foe shipping I can get it less online. Maybe its just me.

I hope they make it, I have always liked them!

No one likes to wait once they've made up their mind, but supporting the guys that demo the equipment and keep a showroom open, only makes sense if you value the chance to play with the gear first.


Me too, but no chance.
I am hoping that the stock price getting down to near "junk" status may give someone the
idea of buying it and turning it private in the interests of selling individual stores off as franchises or something. There are a few stores that I know in the right markets that would be real moneymakers if run in the way I described, a mid-fi boutique/custom install powerhouse.

not to back peddle -- but I almost never "use" a salesperson at Tweeter... I play with the stuff on my own and near the end if I'm planning on buying will then seek some advice.

I know (at least back in 2000-02 area) how much margin they make and well a little give and take would mean some margin still in twtr's pocket rather then in J&R, no? I'm not saying mark everything down for all but for those of us who don't make 6 figures yet still rather give some money to a store like twtr... then again maybe I'm just thinking too much like a catfish?

Well look at it this way, they're loosing money now, and have been for some time, they have consistantly been trying to "buy" business but it hasn't worked, so do you suppose they could discount their way to success if they just dropped prices MORE?

"I loose $20 bucks on everyone of these I sell, but I'm hoping to make it up in volume."


While, as a salesperson I appreciate the thought, it still doesn't help the store out. Some people, though, find it easier to take advantage of a large corporate entity than an individual that they have to look at in the face.
Salespeople still have to sit and babysit the store and the people walking around there and , in downtime, hook up that equipment for you and others to play with and maintain the switchers for your conveniance .....and for the conveniance of J&R's whose online business would seriously change were it not for the free local demonstration centers that every Tweeter operates for them.

Where will you go when they finally close up in your area, and will you miss them?

wow - what sad memories you just brought up... make it up in volume... been there and know what you mean!


Heck I might even return the avr I just bought from jandr and head to my local tweeter - which is not scheduled to close to my knowlegde!