True DSD from SACD.. worth it?

There are very high end SACD players that convert DSD to PCM. There's no way to tell if it makes a difference because I don't know of a player that allows you to choose. Comparing two different players makes no sense.

larry

My situation is a little different. I have my Denon DVD-2930 transport DSD directly to my Denon AVR-4306 via Denon Link. I can take DSD all the way to the DACs, but this disengages all of my equalization and room correction adjustments. Therefore, having the receiver convert DSD to PCM is best from an audio quality standpoint.

If it's any consolation and of any relevance, I don't hear any difference in SACD quality between my Denon DVD player and my PS3, and the PS3 converts DSD to PCM.

If you're using multichannel analog, you would gain much more benefit by getting higher quality DACs in a higher end player than in the lack of DSD to PCM conversion.

If you do some googling with "DSD", "PCM" and "conversion" you will find at least "paper" on why it's better to convert to PCM (disregarding any the things that audio processors do for EQ and such). But like I said, nobody will ever know unless they make a player the can do both. Even then there may be some follow on electronics in line that could change the sound. Some players upsample/convert PCM to DSD. Whatever it takes to get people to buy their product.

larry

I've read an earlier comment about how they do all of the studio work for PCM and convert to DCD anyway. I wonder what the point of DCD is, honestly. (I'm guessing DRM figures somewhere in there)

I thought that quite a few players actually do both and so comparisons should be easy. I know that Denon 2900, 5900 and 5910 all allow to have pure DSD (source direct) as well as DSD->PCM conversion which can be selected in the setup.

I personally compared pure DSD with DSD converted to PCM using Denon 5900 and 5910 and I could not detect significant differences. I chose DSD->PCM conversion so I can take advantage of bass management.

Yes, come to think of it universals will convert DSD->PCM for the purpose of BM and such. I forgot about that. Since I only do 2ch for audio that info is in moth balls. I wouldn't think you'd be able to hear a difference.

larry

I can't vouch for the 5900-5910, but the 2900 didn't convert to PCM at any point. The source direct only deactivated the video circuits and I believe the SPDIF digital outs too.
Denon claimed that BM was done in DSD as well, and the TA feature didn't work when playing back SACDs as well.

I thought there was some misinformation on Denon part at the beginning and that later they confirmed that 2900 did convert DSD to PCM?

At any rate, both 5900 and 5910 for sure allow using pure DSD or DSD->PCM conversion.

I think there was a lot of skepticism from people who thought you can't have BM in DSD domain. But this was never proved one way or another, and Denon never set the record straight with this model, at least not to my knowledge. They did make a feeble attempt to "explain" the BM in that model, but that's another story.
Denon changed the configuration on the later models like the 5900 and so forth, because they all had variable crossover points, so in order to activate that, conversion had to be made. At this time Denon openly admitted this conversion, if you utilized the BM and TA features.

In the 2900, BM crossover was at a fixed 80hz in the Sony chip. I googled and found a statment from Kris stating this.

larry

Yes it was fixed.I didn't know that they used the same chip that was used to decode DSD as well. That's what they changed in the succeding models, and used a different chip for post processing, which did required the PCM conversion. Now it makes sense. Thanks Larry.