The *OFFICIAL* Vienna Acoustics Owners Thread - Page 6

Thanks. This is a a bit more complex than I expected when I started building this system. The reason I am getting rid of the Denon is that the friend of mine who got me into my main system of 5 VAs has a Denon and damaged his VAs.... (Baby Grands). This issue plus the disclaimers in the manual make it clear this is a no go. I called the seller at BestBuy/Magnolia and he agreed and apologised for his ignorance and will do a trade-in for the Yamaha which are explicitly OK at 4ohm. The reason I am doing this is that I get a major discount on the amp by buying the speakers at Magnolia... they cannot discount the VAs but they can discount the amp that goes with the speakers as a package.

I do not want to go into a better amp since this is really a secondary system for me attached to a smaller HDTV etc. My main system is based on Baby Grands.

In the manual of the Yamaha RX-V3800 it says 4 ohm is Ok from the main speakers but the other 3 must be 6 ohms or greater.....

I better start learning the technical nuances here.

jerrryyy- i'm not so sure that the 3800 is really 4ohm stable in surround sound. It appears to be somewhat fuzzy in the booklet from what I saw earlier in this thread as to if it will support 4ohms with more then 2 channels on (support it well, not just run)

Exactly, I have finally gotten the manual and am reading it like a lawyer. I do not like the no more 4 ohm stuff, which implies that I could not complete the system with more VA if I wanted to buy more speakers later.

Does anyone have a recommendation for an amp in the $1000-1500 range that can power the VAs AND do HDML switching?

I can't help with a recommendation for an amp, but in an earlier post you mentioned something about learning the technical nuances. If you have any interest in learning, especially before you start spending money, may I suggest you get a copy of The Complete Guide to High End Audio by Robert Harley, Third Edition. It does a good job of covering just about everything you might want to know about audio science in an easy to understand format. However, Mr. Harley does depart at times from science as we know it, when it comes to believing in the superior (yet unmeasurable) sound of $50,000 audio cables and other such things that have become mainstream in the world of audiophiles.

I honestly don't know of any that do full everything via HDMI. However, have you considered adding a internet direct power amplifier perhaps to a moderate budget receiver? You could do something like a denon 1908 (600$ retail) and a good 5ch power amp from outlaw, emotiva etc (I'm not that familiar with internet direct amp companies but those two seem to offer on paper and user reports here good performance for the buck along with rated 4ohm output). You could use something like the onkyo, denon, sony, yamaha type of receiver as a pre-amp and add a power amp to get everything from HDMI. I would also consider the Marantz Sr4002 at under $600 as a nice option in terms of musical sound, 3xHdmi inputs and my favorite for TV shows, circle surround 2 processing.

I have always thought marantz equipment sounded great with vienna speakers personally.

I gave up choosing today and plunked down the money for the Yamaha, changing in the Denon. This is a secondary set-up and there seem to be folks on the Yamaha forum who have made this work safely. I do know of one Denon that fried a set of VAs. My main system has a SONY 5200ES which has worked fine for a year and has specific setting for 4 ohm. I did not want to get its replacement, the 5300, as it is even more expensive than the Denon or Yamaha and the cost is just getting out of hand for a secondary system.

Thanks for all the advice and I'll try to get the reading material on Amazon.

sounds good jerry, let us know what you think

I recently received Mozart Grands and Maestro Center channel. Wow. I have been using Klipsch kg4s. What a difference. I thought I was missing something with the Klipsch - mid range. I have them hooked up to a Denon AVR 3600. It does well playing just the two Mozarts. Adding the center channel becomes more of a strain. Heard back from Denon about matching a 5.1 system of 4 ohm speakers with their 4308. They said "don't". So I too am looking for a solution. Any thoughts on a Denon 3808 matched with a Rotel RMB-1085 ($2,800 for the pair vs $2,500 for the 4308)?

No speakers or amp yet today, hopefully tomorrow or Friday so I can set up over the weekend. Pretty clear now not to use the Denons.

I just received the book from Amazon recommended above (The Complete Guide to High End Audio by Robert Harley, Third Edition) and it is excellent. Should have read this years ago. I went right to the section on SACDs and it explained the sampling rates etc. in a very clear manner and now I know that I probably have been ripped off buying SACDs that did not have an original DSD source, how's that for jargon!

Anyway, I will be fully prepared to test the Yamaha when it arrives and will hopefully be able to understand what up with the ohms etc.. The big risk of reading books like this is you find out you should have spent even more on your equipment....

One of the theoretical issues that will bother me is that in the modern world where you rip CDs to disk, it looks like the best you can do is .wav, which is not the same as SACD... so if you are spending a lot for VA speakers and a good amp, there are substantial limitations to the source.

Cheers

I've got some older Bachs and they are supposed to have sand in them. My question is, would it be better to put lead shot in them vs. sand, since sand retains moisture couldn't that damage the inside of the speaker over time? I just got off the phone with sumiko and they said sand, I didnt bring up the lead shot because the guy was rushing me off the phone, but he did also say that a denon 3806 reciever will work fine with the viennas I have (2xbachs 3xwaltz). Not the best choice but a choice that would never the less work. I only say that because I thought I read somewhere earlier that it was not a wise choice to pair those up.

If file space is an issue, you may want to use the FLAC format instead of wav. FLAC is a lossless compression that provides identical quality to wav in about half the space.

I agree with your point about reading Harley's book. Some people think he borders on the lunatic fringe, like some of the others at Stereophile and TAS.
Lord Byron once said something to the effect that "large increases in cost with very modest increases in performance can only be tolerated for race horses and fancy women". Now that's the sort of lunatic fringe I can relate to!

I have some Infinity IL10's and was thinking of upgrading to the Hayden Grands, is it worth the investment?

I now have the Yamaha at homeand so far so good with my old speakers. VAs to arrive tomorrow..... I am reading the book cited above.

I have VA Strauss and the Oratorio. The bass is excellent in the Strauss down to 50Hz. Though the Strauss can handle down to 40 Hz, I recommend matching them to a very good subwoofer to handle 50Hz and below. I have my crossover set to 60 Hz on my Cary Cinema 11. More importantly, I used the equalizer on my subwoofer (Velodyne DD-15), to make sure that the bass is flat from 20Hz to 100Hz with the sub and fronts. The difference here is clarity and effortlessness. Room acoustics can ruin any setup,

Prior to picking up a Theta Dreadnaught II, I had the Strauss mated with an older Parasound HCA 3500. I thought the HCA 3500 created slightly tighter bass, but the Dreadnaught II was better at highs and mids and is absolutely ultraquiet. The Dreadnaught costs a bit, but you can find an HCA -3500 for less than 1K online. It will easily power 4 ohm speakers. I also saw a Parasound A21 on this forum for 1200.00. This is another good 2ch amp.

By the way, I have my Strauss positioned slightly toed in with the bass drivers inward. I tried numerous configurations but this works best for me.

This issue was raised by another person on the Yamaha 3800 Forum. On this Amp there is a 6 ohm setting also indicated for 4 ohm speakers. Apparently the setting reduces the top power output of the amp and leads to the potential clipping phenomena. I have to read more on this.

Quote from 3800 forum:


BTW my VAs are still not in Best Buy as they sent the wrong color..... 2.5 weeks waiting and counting.

The Arcam 280 is $1999 list. That would come close to $1500 with a reasonable discount. It is 4 ohm and HDMI I believe. I use the 250 (pre-HDMI version) with VA Haydn front speakers, and get great sound.

anyone have any experience with the Strauss? I am thinking about upgrading from Sonus Faber Grand Pianos to the Strauss.

Well, I have now got my Hayden Grands hooked up to the Yamaha 3800 and they sound great. I am listening to WiFi streaming Bill Evans and these little puppies actually have bass... Evans had a top bass man and when he passed it was a tragedy. Given all the talk I am going to get out my venerable sound pressure gauge and my test disk and see if there is any clipping, now that I know what that is. You should hear how crisp the applause is on the recording....

I used the auto calibration and it seemed to work just fine. My primary seating position is a little off center.

One note was i put my old spearers on Zone 2 and they also sound fine. I almost blew them out when I started the zone up not watching the volume. The Yamaha has a nice feature to set limits of volume... had I only known. Anyway, no permanent damage.

FYI, here is a quote from the VA manual: "Though rated amplifier wattage bears little correlation to either sound quality or drive capability the user is caultioned that amplifiers of low wattage ratings, when stressed beyond their limits can produce audible amounts of distortion, as such as non-audible high frequencies. This distortion can and will damage loudspeaker components and will not be covered by warranty."

Maybe I should go back to 8 ohms.....

Here are the pictures of the new Vienna Acoustics line: The Klimt line, which I believe is replacing the current Reference line.

http://blog.ultimateavmag.com/ces2008//index2.html

Enjoy.

Very interesting. Not sure these will "replace" as they seem even more upscale. Guess they are named after Klimt's paintings.

Price hike! Vienna Acoustics is raising prices on their entire product line starting in March. For example, the Beethoven Concert Grand is now $5,500 ($6,000 for Rosewood). If you are planning to buy a pair, better hurry!

I have two of the Beethoven BGs and am amazed how prices have gone upupup. Euro vs dollar I guess.

What was the initial price for the Beethoven Concert Grands when they first landed in the United States?

4500.00 non rosewood
5000.00 rosewood

Oh, so this is the first price hike in the U.S., then. Too bad the dollar is much weaker now... all of the sudden the VA's don't seem too much of a "bargain" anymore.

More on the new reference Klimt series with high resolution photos.

Technical Data

System type : 3-way system, employing integrated subwoofers
Frequency response : 22 - 100.000 Hz
Bass drivers : 3 x 9" Vienna Acoustics Spidercones, manufactured by Eton Germany
Midrange Coax driver : 1 x 7" Vienna Acoustics Flat-Spider, 1 x 1" , handcoated vented neodym-magnet powered silk dome, manufactured by Eton Germany
Supertweeter : 0,5" Murata
Sensitivity : 91 dB
Impedance : 4 ohms
Recommended power amplifiers : from 50 to 500 watts
Weight per speaker : 180 Ibs. / 82 kg
Dimensions (WxHxD) : 10.75 x 50.98 x 24.80 inches 273 x 1295 x 630 mm

http://www.bm.co.yu/Klimt.html

Official English PDF

http://www.bm.co.yu/Vienna%20Acousti...t%20Series.pdf

Thanks to this thread I am about ready to purchase a pair of waltz speakers before the price goes up; will save a few hundred dollars. I'll be turning a sun room into a home theater and will be able to use these as surrounds. I have had my Mozart Grands and Maestro center for about a month now. I really love them. My older Denon (AVR 3600) sounds great with them until I step up the volume a bit, the overload button comes on occasionally. Plan on a new replacing my receiver when I hook up the waltz speakers with either a Denon 4308 or a Denon 3808 used as a pre amp and a Rotel amp.

While I have read on numerous occasions that other speakers are more accurate, all I can say is I truly enjoy listening to mine

wow, those new reference ones look very interesting. I have been somewhat stunned by the pics, I don't know what to think

Can anyone here recommend a good audio amp that can drive 5.1ch, preferably non-AV thing? I just purchased Sony DVP-NS9100ES SACD player and would like to take advantage of its 5.1ch capability, but I'm not familiar with 5.1ch amps.

My main speakers are Beethoven Concert Grands and I'm thinking about buying a pair of Waltz Grand and Maestro Grand. Thanks.

All this conversation about the struggle to find an amp that is stable at 4 ohms or so.. Have any of you guys tried Mcintosh amps? I started with a pair of Beethoven speakers for the fronts, and now have a pair of Mahler speakers for the fronts, an Oratorio center, and Waltz surrounds. All powered with Mcintosh amps. (a pair of MC-501s for the fronts and a bridged MC-7106 for the center and surrounds.

I am in love with the sound and am enjoying it every day.