The *OFFICIAL* Vienna Acoustics Owners Thread - Page 7

Yes, some weeks ago I reported great results with my Strauss speakers combined with the McIntosh MC275, C2200 preamp and Micro Seiki BL-51 turntable. I think some of other posts regarding poor results at 4 ohms were for secondary systems or when the price point was a major consideration.

I am also looking for a new amp or receiver for my Mozart Grands, Maestro Center and Waltz surrounds. My dealer suggests a Denon 4308. While Denon literature rates the receiver at 6 ohms, on another thread the Denon rep says that the 4308 can easily handle 4 ohm speakers. The lack of 4 ohm rating has something to do with the particular UL test. He said as long as the receiver is properly vented (or an exhaust fan is used), there should be no problem. A Denon 4308 is certainly a lot less expensive than the Mcintosh amps.

It takes a lot more current to drive a 4 ohm load, which produces more heatthat is why the dealer suggests proper ventilation. However, it might be wise to determine if the amplifier is being driven into clipping on musical peaks when operating beyond its rating. You might be able to take care of the extra heat load with a fan or more ventilation, but what sort of distortion is actually being produced? Maybe not a problem, but you may wish to check.

Thanks. Should have mentioned that this was also the response/recommendation of Jeff Talmadge Director of Product Development at Denon.

Hi, if you go back a month or so I was in on a long discussion of the 4ohm issue. I finally decided to get the Yamaha 3800 for a secondary system. It has worked just fine. I originally got and returned a Denon 4308 because of the disclaimer in the manual about 4 ohm use and the fact that one of my friends blew out a VA with them. My main system runs 5 VAs through a SONY 5200ES just fine also, but this is more expensive than the Yamaha. The SONY is specifically designed to switch to 4 ohms. Their latest model is the 5300 and runs abbout $1600-1800 or so list. These seem to be the choices for amps under 2 grand.....

Regarding eternal 4ohm question:

I have 5 VAs hooked up to a SONY 5200ES and the sound is impecable with 4 ohm specific settings... SONY to SONY is a winning combination for SACDs... I have a PS3 to do the task... now owning 20 SACDs....

My other system is a smaller Yamaha 3800 hooked up to two Haydn Grands. This I set to 6 ohm because of various disclaimers on a Denon and I could not afford the SONY 5300ES. This works really well as I have just added a Aperion S8-APR subwoofer.

I was just checking in here if any of the gurus might be able to give me some help on the crossover settings with the Aperion and Haydns. Supposedly the Haydn go down to 55Hz... but the Aperion folks say to set the crossover at 80... but I have the option of setting it at 60.... now with what I paid for the Haydns, I might like to send the signal through them right down to 60Hz.... I use the autosetup on the Yamaha and set to "small" speakers. On the Sony system I set my Baby Grands as "Large".

It does sound good at 80 ... but any gurus have any comments on this crossover concoction?

Here is some info on setting subwoofer crossover...proobably more than you wanted: http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/article_560.shtml

I've been looking into buying a 5.1 system for a while and have been bouncing all over the place from Def Tech to B&W and now Vienna Acoustic. My question is in regards to what Vienna offers in there reference series vs. their grand series. I have not had the opportunity to listen to their reference series, but if you guys had any feedback on them as to whether it was night and day performance between them or if it is worthwhile making the leap to the reference series? I listen to mainly R&B, but would also love to put on some hip hop music whenever my buddies come over. As far as usage, these will most likely be used 65/35 for HT and music respectively. As far as electronics, I will more than likely pair them up with Primare gear or any 4-ohm rated electronics. Thanks in advance!

I have owned several Vienna Acoustics loudspeakers, including the Beethoven (non-grand), the Strauss and the Mahler. I think the reference series is well worth the price premium, especially the Mahler. I don't know much about US pricing as I live in Europe, but here the Mahler is a real "best-buy". It has very fine build quality and high quality drivers. You will find the same drivers in speakers that are far more expensive. As for the Strauss it is a bit cheaper, but it also has less sofiticated drivers. The price difference between the Beethoven Grand and the Strauss is not very big. I guess that is why the Strauss was discontinued. I also believe that the Beethoven Grand is one of the best speakers in its price range (although that might depend on what music you listen to), but I certainly believe that the Mahler is worth the premium price (if one can afford it).

Viennas work quite well with Primare amplifiers, although some of their DVD-players (i dont know about CD) might sound a bit flat with these speakers.

I also think that B&W has very good speakers in their pricerange, especially the 803D and 802D.

Edit: I hope this helps your quest!

We are about to buy a home theater system -- and its been many years since we've seriously looked at audio equipment. However, saw/heard the VAs and loved them. We have put together the following (with alot of help from the Magnolia salesman at Best Buy): 2 VA Bach Grands, VA Theatro center, 2 VA Waltz Grands for rear speakers, Martin Logan 12" sub-woofer, Panamax power source -- and originally, a Denon receiver -- but after reading through the threads in this forum, have nixed that and are looking to a Sony 4300ES.

We are clearly not experts, so I am hoping to get some feedback from those of you who are. I haven't seen much about using sub-woofers with the VAs -- and no one has said anything (that I recognize) about adding a separate power source for the components. Are these units necessary? Too, does anyone have any experience with the Sony 4300ES? We specifically went looking for receivers that supported the 4ohm speakers -- and found both Sony and Onkyo (SR875) that did so, but several posts about the Onkyo refered to sparks and flames so we are moving away from that.

Any observations about strengths or weaknesses of our proposed system are welcome! Thanks!! (And yes, we have both space and dollar limitations, thus the smaller Bach speakers up front.)

With respect to Panamax, they have quite a line of models, ranging from simple surge suppression to several with real power conditioning. I assume that when you say “power source” I assume you are referring to power conditioning, and not simple surge suppression.

The effectiveness of power conditioners depend, in part, on the cleanliness of the incoming power. A dedicated 120VAC line for A/V can certainly help noise problems, but may not be sufficient by itself. The higher-grade conditioners can certainly make a big improvement when you have poor quality incoming power, and the isolation transformer models are especially effective. In addition, the better power conditioners have the ability to isolate noise transmitted from one A/V component to another.

You may want to work with your dealer and do a home trial with the best conditioner you would buy, keeping within budget, to see what improvement you can discern on both audio and video with/without it in the circuit. If you cannot discern any real improvement, then consider a less expensive model, or just a surge suppressor. This is how I would approach the problem. I try to avoid throwing money at something that creates no discernable improvement.

The incoming noise level will probably vary, so you will have to do the test over several days and times of day. A blind test with someone else inserting and removing the conditioner from the circuit would be best to avoid biasing the results. If you do not have the time or patience for any of this, then buy the best power conditioner, you can (within your budget).

Thank you for the insight. Yes, the Panamax power source is described as power conditioning (Model M5100-PM). We are susceptable to power surges and outages in our area, so this recommendation makes more sense now.

Separately, I've read a number of posts talking about how hot these components run -- and I suspect our system will be on up to 10-12 hours a day (either music or video) on a typical day. Further, the components will be tucked into a bookcase. Would you recommend some type of fan for the receiver? If so, any suggestions? Again, many thanks!

JFKtoo- look at the CABCOOL fan from Middle Atlantic. 2 or 3 of these work well in tight and hot situations.

You did not say whether or not the bookcase is enclosed, vertical spacing of shelves, etc, so here is another Middle Atlantic product you might consider:http://www.middleatlantic.com/rackac...l.htm#compcool

Hi Folks.....

I want to buy the vienna accustics but i´m not sure if this LS is also good in hearing electronical music... Most of the time i´m hearing jazz and soul .. but also elcetronic music with much bass ... minimal, deep house and so on...(music with much punch)
[in the area where i live there is no VA Store , so i cannot test it ;-) ]

Whats your experience: VA with high bass music ...

I have the SONY 5200ES, now replaced by the 5300ES. It works just fine with the VAs and has the long sought after 4ohm settings. I forget what the big difference is between the 4k and 5k SONY series, but I linked my to a PS3 for BR and SACD playback and never looked back. On a smaller system I have the Yamaha 3800, which also works well and is a touch cheaper.

The more you pay, the more the bass. But, even with Baby Grands I have a subwoofer for completeness and movies, but I moved it out a month ago to test with a new system in another room and did not miss it a bit for music. Look at the specs and you will see what I mean about the bass coverage as you move up in price... regardless of the specs there is a wonderful quality of them with strings (try Savall and Marin Marais.... SACD) ... I have a lot of viola.. in jazz piano and bass come out (Bill Evans.....). Both of these knock your socks off with VAs. You need disks (SACD =4X regular CD sampling) like these to really hear the quality. I had a friend who is a pianist come over and here this stuff on the system and he was mesmerized.

Oh goodie. At last i've found a topic about Vienna Acoustics speakers + equipment.

I own a pair of Vienna Acoustics Schonberg plus the Vienna Acoustics Subson. It's a 2.1 setup so i cannot answer 5.1 questions.

What everyone's opinions on the VA Mozart Grand vs. the Martin Logan Source?

I have demoed these both several times, and lately i feel like i like the ML's are alot better. I used to really appreciate the VA's, but i recently went to a magnolia where the ML's were in their own sound room and they sounded awesome. The salesman showed me the flashlight trick to setup the ML's and when i went into the regular demo room i setup the ML's properly. I then listend to several tracks of some of my favorite songs. I thought the ML's sounded larger, and the highs just went on forever(its just that they are a mainly one or two person speaker for sweet spot listening, and im not sure if i would be happy with that). Now of course the VA's have thier own advantages, but whats everyone's take on this?

As I am sure you are aware, it is difficult to make buying decisions on speakers based upon how others perceive the soundit is a very subjective area and one man's medicine is another mans' poison. In addition, room acoustics plays a very large role, so unless you auditioned them side by side, it would be impossible to make a fair comparison. From my experience with the VA Strauss speakers, they take quite a bit of tweaking to get the best sound. They sounded much better after I got them positioned at home than the way they sounded in the store (and they sounded great in the store).

I have personally used Pioneer Elite 92's and 94's with VA before at VERY high volume withut any issues whatsoever. (I sell them, and set up our displays)

I've had Vienna Acoustic Strauss speakers for about a year and a half. When I first heard Vienna Acoustics I was in the market for a pair of Martin Logans. The Martin Logans were unbelievable with Jazz, which is what I listen to mainly. The issue I had with the Martin Logans was the small sweet spot. I didn't think the speakers would work well in my theater room for guests who sat off-axis. If I was the only one listening, I would have purchased the Martin Logans.

Three things I like about my Vienna Acoustics Strauss. First, the woodwork is absolutely beautiful. Second, the speakers have a large soundstage and they disappear in a room. It's easy for me to determine where each performer is standing/sitting when they are playing. Third, they are excellent for movies. There is so much great music in movies that I tended to ignore until I listened with the Strauss. They also bring out the sound effect nuances.

The only negative for some may be that they are a bit warm in the midrange. This works well for Jazz and Classical, but it doesn't work so well for Rock. If you are into Rock or electrical I'd probably avoid Vienna Acoustics and Martin Logan. For movies and jazz, classical and acoustic rock they are excellent.

The Beethovens have more pronounced highs but less bass then the Strauss. The drivers in the Strauss match the Oratorio center speaker, which is an excellent center speaker. Most of the sound in movies comes from the center speaker so it was that I have a superb matching center speaker.

I matched the three front speakers with a Theta Digital Dreadnaught amplifier, so I have plenty of power to drive them. Personally I would not attempt to drive these 4 ohm speakers with a receiver. I can't imagine that you could get the best out of them. I used a Parasound 3500 2-channel amp to drive them initially and they performed very well.

Maybe I'll get lucky and get blessed with some words of wisdom from Vienna Acoustic Mahler owners. I've got four (4) Vienna Acoustic Mahlers and the Oratorio in a multichannel music/Home theater setup. I've integrated the LG BH-100 HD DVD/Blu-ray Dual format player into my "play room" and have had issues playing movie uncompressed PCM, TrueHD, or DTS HD core audio tracks using the players analog outputs; the amps' protection circuit kicks in usually on dynamic peaks but also at other times at "relatively low" (for me) volume levels. I've never had this issue with any of my music or when playing movies using lossy DTS/DD soundtracks.

Usually what comes to mind is the amp is not delivering enough power to the Mahlers. But I am using a relatively beefy Classe CA-400 (400W/channel into 8 ohms, 800W/4 ohms) and had a similar problem with another muscle amp (Parasound JC-1, same wattage).

I'm hoping/praying the player is the cause of the difficulties with faulty audio decoding algorithms or inadequate DACs but it just might be the Mahlers require massive power during your typical movie dynamic peaks. I've tried another LG player with the same result but have not yet tried a different player. Comments/ideas ?

Oscar- can you try another player in the system to make sure it is the issue? My guess is that with the uncompressed audio you are now asking more out of the amp that is possible. That being said, it might be the player is so far off its over driving the system somehow

really an on one. I'd start at the player because it is by far the lowest cost piece (and probably easiest) to replace.

Not so easy getting another player. It needs to have 6-channel analog outputs for my HDMI-challenged system and those run $>500 (I'm not about to spend big bucks just to experiment). Everyone I know has either an LG and/or player without 6 channel outputs. Well... there is one guy who has the new Denon Blu-ray player but prying it out of his hands could be problematical given his "hard to work with" equipment rack... I'm gonna try anyway; I wanna hear DTS HD MA in my system.

I agree that your power amp rating is not the problem. Your speakers have a sensitivity rating of 90db, meaning that it will take 1 watt to drive them to 90db at 1 Khz at a distance of 1 meter. The maximum rated Mahler power is 200 Watts, so I don't think that your 800 Watt @ 4 ohms is the issue. If anything, I would expect that you could deliver too much power and melt the voice coils at sustained levels if not careful. If you pump 800 Watts into the speaker, your SPL level would be just under 120 dbabout 9 db louder than a typical rock concert and at the threshold of pain.

Since you are using analog outputs from the DVD player, are the senstivity levels set to be compatible such that your preamp is not over driving the power amp, creating some sort of false triggering of the protection circuit? This is a long shot, since I don't see how it could kick in the protection, but I thought I would ask.

Hi guys, just for the record my VAs are working fine with the Yamaha 3800 and the low ohm setting. I am very happy with the amp because I have figured out how to stream all my ripped CDs from my Windows Media Player/Music Server wirelessly out to the Yammy... 600 CDs at the finger tips.... including WAV format.

I recently bought a Sony STR-DA7100ES. It's a fully digital receiver. I was waiting for a successor to this model, but the latest offering from sony was STR-DA5300ES which is an analogy receiver. I finally broke down and bought the 7100ES which is 3 years old, but I couldn't wait. I'll keep it until Sony comes out with a new digital receiver (7300ES?).

The sound is just FANTASTIC. I originally had the 7100ES hooked up to my 2 channel McIntosh MC7150 (pre out) to drive the pair of Beethoven Concert Grands as L/R, but I got rid of it. The BCG's sound better hooked up directly to the 7100ES. Who said AV receivers can't outpeform "real" audiophile amplifiers?

Anyways, I have a pair of Mirage bi-polar surrounds that I hooked up as rear effects and my SACD's played through the DVP-NS9100ES via i.LINK connection sound so incredible. When I get paid bonus this summer, I'll complete my 5.1ch set up with the addition of Maestro/Waltz and REL T1. I used to think that a proprly set up 2ch system is better than 5.1ch, but I was so very wrong.

My VAs run from a SONY 5200ES now 1.5 years old and they sound just great. Since I have a PS3 attached for SACDs and BR I have amassed a small collection of disks. If you really wanna hear some test piece and like classical, may I suggest the Marin Marais cello recordings by Jordi Savall, or if you like Jazz there are a wholeseries of recordings of Bill Evans that are great.

I have the 5.1 system and it depends a lot on how the disk was made... many SACDs are only two channel.

BTW, if you attach a PS3 to the SONY, which will get you the SACDs, it will also get you streaming wireless audio if you have CDs ripped to a Windows Media or WinAmp server. It cannot rip SACDs but WAV files sure sound great.. same as CD....

Just getting the Maestro is a major advance. I am thinking of getting one for a smaller 2 channel system running off a Yamaha 3800.

I have the Haydns and Maestro center and am looking for rears that don't break the bank. How about some input on budget rear surround speakers that go well with this setup.

Optionyout