The *OFFICIAL* Vienna Acoustics Owners Thread - Page 92

Those are all very capable AVR's and I would also suggest you add the Arcam AV400 to your list.

But at the prices for the AVR's you indicate, the swing is from $1200 on the low end to $3000 on the high. Thats a pretty wide swing. What exactly is your budget? Finally it sounds like your concerned about power and rightfully so - running 4 Ohm VA's all the way around. What exactly are you trying to accomplish? The most bang for your buck? A little more info would be helpful.

Thanks for your reply. My budget would max out at about $2500. I listen to about 80% music and view movies about 20%. I want to have HDMI switching (4 sources minimum). Streaming is not a priority as I use an Escient Fireball (all music stored in FLAC) and blu-ray movies are viewed from a Cambridge Audio 751BD or Sony 7000ES. The 751BD is also used for SACD and DVD-A material.

You're welcome. I agree that the NAD 757 & CA 551R would probably be a little too light to drive all 5 VA's. I would opt for their bigger brothers. The Pioneer SC-65 also has the new Class D3 amps that are 4 Ohm rated and have been very well received. Finally at 90 x 7 wpc, the Arcam 400 should get the job done too and be within your budget.

Are you committed to a one box solution (AVR)? You could also consider getting an AVR with 4 HDMI inputs & full set of Pre-Outs and couple it with a good 5 channel power amp and be well under your $2500 budget. I run last years Pioneer Elite VSX-52 as a pre-pro along with a Parasound 5125 power amp at 125 wpc continuous. Plenty of power to run my VA's to some pretty high volume levels without breaking a sweat. There are lots of other AVR-AMP combinations to consider. Good luck.

Thanks. I will explore that idea this weekend.

Here is a new review of the VA Mozart Grand Se.Scroll to page 179 of the pdf.

http://www.tonepublications.com/MAGPDF/TA_049.pdf

If anyone is interested in a Maestro Grand in rosewood, I have one for sale. Just PM me.

My dealer suggested that I try out the NAD T777 or the Pioneer SC-65 as a one box solution. Anybody have any experience with these driving VAs?

Sorry, I have no direct experience with these AVR's driving a 5.0 set of Viennas other than to say, they should get the job done. Both AVR's are 4 Ohm rated and fairly powerful in their class. Very good choices if you are limited or want a one box solution.

Did you visit your dealer and demo both units he recommended? Major differences are the NAD is class AB and uses Audyssey room correction while the Pioneer is Class D and uses proprietary MCACC. If you were able to listen, did you have a preference? Maybe someone else who has direct experience using these models and Viennas can comment. Good luck and sounds like you on the right path.

With a $2,500 budget and an 80% music preference, I'd be looking at an entry level pre/pro like the new Outlaw 975 (review: http://hometheaterreview.com/outlaw-audio-model-975-71-av-surround-sound-processor-reviewed/ ) and a good 5-channel amp (ATI, Outlaw, Parasound, or maybe even a used Bryston) or, if you really want "room correction", a new Denon or Onkyo AVR with pre outs and a good 2, 3, or 5 channel amp new or used.

Hello - new here and am also considering a receiver for the Vienna Mozart Grand SE's - if I get them.

Still trying to make my mind up…

I have recently auditioned the Paradigm Studio 100s, B&W CM9s, PSB Imagine T2, Vandersteen 2Ce Signature IIs, and the GoldenEar Triton Two and various others (not mentioned) that did not make it to my short list. I was not able to hear the Studio 100s at the same location as the Mozart Grands.

I am down to the Mozart Grands vs. the Studio 100s. Any suggestions welcome!

The Mozarts were driven by thousands of dollars of electronics (DAC, pre, monblocks, etc.) so I don't know how they would sound with a typical receiver. The Studio 100s were driven by an Anthem receiver, MRX 700, and sounded awesome IMO. I will also state that compared to my current system, it's like trying to determine which is faster, Ferrari or Lamborghini when I drive a Ford, which I'm somewhat happy with and have never exceed 90 MPH.

I will say the Mozarts produced the most articulate sounding music I've heard in a long time. They were absolutely impeccable. Music produced emotions. The lows were so good I thought a sub was also active - they were alone, no sub. Bottom line, I want these, but I'm afraid I don't have the budget for the electronics needed to drive/suit them.

So, after reading this very informative thread, it seems the Mozarts like class D amps (if I understood correctly). If that's the case, the Pioneer SC-68 is on my short list. If the 4 ohm impedance is a bit difficult to get the levels I'm looking for, then I would consider a good preamp coupled to an Emotiva amp. Any comments greatly appreciated - thanks.

Its not that the Mozart SE's necessarily like Class D amps. Being a 4 Ohm speaker they like a lot of high current power to perform at their best. Doesn't matter which class of amp delivers it. There has been a lot of discussion lately about Pioneers new Class D3 amps because they are rated to be stable driving 4 Ohm loads. Most other AVR's are not rated at 4 Ohms.

Thaty being said, the Mozart SE's are an excellent speaker and we hope to hear that you have joined the club if these are the ones you choose.

If you go the receiver route, make sure it is 4 Ohm rated, has ample high current power and has PRE-OUTS so you can add an amp later if you find out the receiver is not working out for you. The Pioneer Elite SC's that you are looking at meet this requirment.

At the price of the Pioneer SC-68 though, you may also want to consider separates if you have the room. I would actually recommend this route as you will be assured of having adequate power for the VA's. You can get a lower cost pre-pro like the Outlaw 975 recommended above along with a power amp. You can even find a lower cost AVR instead of a pre-pro to mate with the power amp. Just make sure it has a full set of PRE-OUTS. I use last years Pioneer Elite VSX-52 as a pre-pro coupled with a Parasound 5125 power amp with my Viennas and have no regrets. Good luck in building your system.

Thanks for the reply Paraneer. What are your thoughts on the Emotiva amps, XPA-3, XPA-5, etc. I would love to see the XMC-1 become a reality this year. The SC-68 really is really tempting at $2000. Great reviews, awesome certifications, etc. I like that fact it can drive 4 ohm speakers and run cool due to the class D. It is also a one unit solution and would eliminate all the XLR cables between the pre and amp.

However, I tend to agree with you on the separates. That is most likely the route I will take.

If the Pioneer meets all of your needs, consider keeping it simple. Those look like very sophisticated, powerful units. No shame in an integrated unit of that quality. Otherwise, I might suggest Outlaw (ATI) amps due to their inherent robustness, overall specs, and manageable size. FWIW, I have two separates-based systems, and one integrated system (none Pioneer). Vienna Acoustics speakers look and sound beautiful. Enjoy!

You're welcome Saril. With your budget, you have many options. That is a good position to be in and whatever you choose, go the route that works best for you.

The XPA-3 or XPA-5 would drive the VA's with no problem. While I have no direct experience with Emotiva, they have a loyal following and are well received. Further, the performance they provide at their price point would indicate they are great values for your money. Just like Outlaw - another valued based alternative that would do a good job with VA's too. I do not see how you could go wrong with either.

Thanks all - appreciate the quick replies. Yes the Outlaw Model 7500 is definitely an attractive 5 channel amp with some great reviews, same goes for the Parasound 5250 v2, which is definitely out of my price range. But then again, for $800, that Emotiva XPA-5 is sure looking sweet, especially if it’s an enabler, budget wise, for the VA Maestro Grand Center. I just need to find a suitable preamp for it.

If I get the OPPO-103, then I don’t want to waste dollars on video processing that the OPPO is already going to do a fine job of handling – am I correct in this line of reasoning?

Also, I will be using a Vandersteen 2VW sub with the Mozarts and Maestro Grand Center so I was thinking I would be good with a killer receiver. This has been one of the most difficult and time consuming decisions in my life – my wife thinks I have gone mad – lol.

Well, I tried the Pioneer SC-65, at home, and found that I did not care for it when listening to music. It brought the highs forward, but seemed to lose some definition in the voices and mid range instrumentation (I tried the various settings such as pure direct, etc.). It did, however, work well with Blu Ray movies (DTS HD Master). I went back to the dealer and auditioned the Arcam AVR 400 (connected to the same speakers I have at home) as well as listening to the NAD. I opted for the Arcam as the NAD seemed to suffer from some of the same issues as the Pioneer (but to a lesser extent). The Arcam just seemed more natural with my speakers. I am now waiting for delivery of the receiver.

does anyone can give me an opinion about Webern Vs. Waltz Grand . i have currently have Waltz grand and i was thinking to switch to Webern as my surround speakers. any opinions and how would the sound differ between them two.
thank you

I did too liked Arcam when i found it at my local dealer. At this time i had NAD all ready and as you for movies my NAD wasn't there for me , so i decided to use NAD as pro only and got me Primare 5 ch. amp and it made big improvement that Nad was lacking in.
Enjoy take a pic for us of you gear....

Sorry the SC-65 did not work out for you gprace. Hopefully the Arcam 400 does. If not, you're running out of higher end units to consider, LOL. You main have to join us in the separates ranks.

Saril, you still have lots of option as we discussed earlier. If your serious about a 5 channel power amp and all the models you indicated are good ones, then find the best Pre-Pro or AVR with Pre-Outs within your budget and go for it. Emotiva and Outlaw with an AVR or their pre-pros should easily meet your budget. You also mentioned Parasound so if you haven't checked already, take a look at Audio Advisor for great deals on Parasound refurbs. You save some significant $$$ and having bought Parasound refurbs from them before, I cannot tell the diff between these and new ones. You also get a full mfrs warranty and AA is an authorized dealer. Finally, if its a killer AVR you are also considering, then liaise with gprace as this is the route he appears to be moving toward having already trialed the SC-65 (same as a 68 you were looking at) and now the Arcam 400. Good luck to both you as ultimately it your decison; your system.
Edited by Paraneer - 1/9/13 at 7:48pm

Thanks. I will post my results after receiving and setting up the Arcam.

This is very much accurate. I have been powering a full Concert Grand system for years with Emotiva.

Big,

I am surprised you are letting that one go. The Maestro is one fine speaker, and looks better than just about everything else out there. What is driving your decision? Will you be getting rid of your Mozarts as well?

Thanks for your reply. However, if I go for the Mozarts I will most likely go for separates. And yes, I was fortunate to get a chance to listen to the Vienna Mozarts and left feeling I finally found something of high quality I could afford. They are beautiful - both to look at and musically!

Thanks again for your valued input! I have decided to go with separates. I did check AA and was drooling over the Halo 31 factory refresh. I want to make my mind up on a good pre/pro before I decide on an amp. This is tough for me as I am still learning. I will say that the Mozarts are still at the top of my list. I don't want to compromise on the electronics if I can wait and save for a really good pre/pro and amp that can serve for HT and music. I need to understand what I'm getting if I go with the factory refresh option. A question I have is, what do you think is the minimum distance between the left and right fronts if I go with the Mozarts. Thanks again for your help!

Sounds like you are getting closer to a decision Saril. The Vienna Mozarts will be great choice.

Regarding factory refreshed units, give AA a call and ask about them to put your mind at ease. Again, I bought a refurbed 2100 and 5125 and seriously could not tell the difference between these and a new one. I have had them over two years now without any incident. If something goes wrong, my New Classics carry 3 year warraties. The HALOS are five years. This however is only my success story - maybe someone else has had a bad experience and can elaborate. But I doubt it.

The minimum distance between the Mozarts or any speaker for that matter is impossible to answer. It depends on your room and the spread between L/R mains is also dependent upon their distance from the listening position. A rule of thumb is to form an isoceles triangle with the distance between the speakers less than the distance of each speaker to the listening position. In my case, after hours of experimentation and listening, I settled with my Bach Grands being 7' apart (VA badge to badge) and 10' from my listening chair with a slight toe it. Further, they are 16" from my rear wall and 34" from my side walls. Heres a few pics to illustrate.





Have fun when you get them to determine the best spot in your room. Its all part of the hobby. Good luck Saril.

I'm not getting rid of the Mozarts, I'm just simplifying to a two channel system

The Maestro Grand is great and I will miss it, but there are just more important things I need in my life right now.

So the XPA-5 for the Mozarts and Maestro is good for the amp choice then in your opinion? Thanks for your reply.

Good advice and thanks for the pictures! Nice! That's exactly the setup I'm going for, black center and cherry L/R mains. The Mozarts I auditioned were the rosewoods and reminded me of a Martin D28 guitar - beautiful! Thanks again for taking the time to respond - this is a great forum.

Good advice and thanks for the pictures! Nice! That's exactly the setup I'm going for, black center and cherry L/R mains. The Mozarts I auditioned were the rosewoods and reminded me of a Martin D28 guitar - beautiful! Thanks again for taking the time to respond - this is a great forum.[/quote]


Beautiful speakers -- there is an Outlaw 7100 on ebay -- plenty of juice for seven channels at 4 ohms (165 watts -- more than plenty) should you want to save a few dollars (made in USA, too). Emotiva should work fine, as well.