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Rotel 1072 vs NAD 542 vs Rega Apollo

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
I've always been grateful for people sharing their personal experiences with various audio gear and rarely have the opportunity to do so myself. So, for anyone who happens to be interested, I thought I'd share my thoughts about three different CD players that I auditioned this weekend.

I listened to a Rotel 1072, NAD C542 and the Rega Apollo in my local dealer's showroom. They were being played through B&W 802D's and were driven by a Bryston preamp with a Bryston amp (3B SST, I believe). All 3 players are between $500-$1000 depending on whether you buy new or used.

Disclaimer: No blind comparisons or level matching were involved in my audition. This is admittedly a non-scientific, subjective opinion based on the plug and play experiences of one listener. I do not consider myself a golden ear by any stretch of the imagination and I have what I consider to be a respectable middle of the road systema long way from HTIB and a long way for an exotic, price is no object system.

Well, that saidhere's my summary:

Rotel 1072 ($700?) - The most distinguishing characteristic of the Rotel was it's lack of midbass/bass. It just sounded really constricted compared to the other players, but it was only noticeable once I'd listened to the other two. Soundstage and imaging were both very good. The sense of width and height were very similar to what I'm used to hearing at home. Highs were accurate and smooth without a hint of sharpness or sibilance. Overall, the Rotel had a very clean sound without feeling dry or analytical.

NAD C542 ($500) - Much more robust mids/lows than the Rotel, but in no way was the bass bloated. I don't know if the NAD was artificially bumping up the bass and the Rotel was just playing it as is, or if the NAD was dead on and Rotel was just a bit thin. But, to my ear, there was a difference between the two. Which one is right, I don't know. Soundstage felt very similar to the Rotelmaybe a bit wider. The highs were accurate, articulate and without a hint of sharpness or shrillness. In general, it sounded quite similar to the Rega (see below).

Rega Apollo ($995) -Surprisingly similar to the NAD (considering the nearly 2x price tag), but had even tighter bass (in a good way) and I guess I would describe it as faster bass too. One of the most noticeable characteristics of the Apollo was the width of the soundstage. It clearly extended away from the center stage on both sides well beyond the borders of the speakers. Also, this was the first time that I had a strong perception of depth of soundfield. I didn't really get that with either the Rotel or NAD. The most noticeable difference, however, was the sense of both used space and empty space. I don't know how else to describe it. Voices/instruments were extremely well defined and had a sense of air and space around them that I was not familiar with in my setup and did not notice in the other two. This was probably the most noticeable characteristic of the Apollo.

Just for fun, I also listened to the Ayre CX-7 ($4000?) and a Meridian 808 ($14,000?). I didn't really listen critically to either of these since they are so ridiculously far out of the price range I was looking in. The Meridian was a really interesting experience. It sounded DRAMATICALLY different than anything else I heard. Most noticeable was the placement of voices/instruments in the soundfield. I don't know if the Meridian did it correctly and everything else had it off by a bit or if the Meridian was doing something not intended in the original recording, but this was the only player that sounded strikingly different from the others.

The folks here that say there are relatively subtle differences between most CDPs are pretty close to the mark. Maybe it was because I knew which one was playingmaybe it was because they weren't level matchedmaybe some other considerations came into play. I honestly don't know. I think it's mostly a question of what you consider subtle and how much it's worth to you. Is hearing more air in a recording subtle, or is it a dramatic improvement? Is it worth an extra $50 to hear it? An extra $500? Well, that's up to you.

I have the Rega at home now for a week long demo. I've already spent quite a bit of time going back and forth between my Denon 1600 (CD/DVD/DVD-A) and the Rega. Admittedly, it's not as big a difference as going from my old Klipsch speakers to my new Revels (or going from an old Yamaha receiver to decent quality separates), but as far as I'm concerned, the Rega has added a really satisfying improvement to my setup. Is the Rega worth the $1000 price tag? Well, to me the answer is a resounding YES.

Sorry for the lengthy post. Let the abuse begin...

Scott
post #2 of 20
Awesome. I've been considering the Rotel for a long time to match up with my Rotel 2ch receiver. I've wavered on the Rega for a few months, but this seems like an interesting comparison. I'll have to hit my local store to compare some of their offerings, then compare them to the reference Levinson stuff they carry.
post #3 of 20
A very good and insightful review... I really wanted to listen to the REga Apollo, but found the local dealer after I bought my Arcam CD73.
post #4 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmichaelf View Post

Awesome. I've been considering the Rotel for a long time to match up with my Rotel 2ch receiver. I've wavered on the Rega for a few months, but this seems like an interesting comparison. I'll have to hit my local store to compare some of their offerings, then compare them to the reference Levinson stuff they carry.

Definitely have a listen. I felt like they were all quality products and it really just boiled down to price comfort and which flavor you liked best. I'd be curious to hear what your thoughts on a comparison between either the Rotel or the Rega and the Levinson.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hugh9269 View Post

I really wanted to listen to the REga Apollo, but found the local dealer after I bought my Arcam CD73.

Yeah...I'm the flip side of that. I really wanted to listen to the Arcam, but couldn't find a local dealer.

Scott
post #5 of 20
SSteel01,

I'm glad you posted a very honest opinion about this hot subject.

I personally own two different CD players. One of them is precisely the Rotel RCD-1072 but last year it was modified. The other player is the much more expensive Arcam FMJ CD33.

While I'm still able to tell some differences beetween these two players, they're not huge. Nevertheless in all honesty I must say the Rotel sound is somewhat "thin" while the Arcam“s sound is more "robust" (sorry for the words). Both are transparent tough.

The Rotel is perfect for the HDCD decoding capabilities but the Arcam has been much more appreciated by some of my friends. Those friends do know it costs more, BTW.

In any case I use them with equal pleasure.

I have listened to the Rega Apollo as well, but I've never liked the transport at the top. It is a good player though.

So enjoy your demo week with the Rega. I think you can still give the Rotel and/or the NAD an opportunity, but this depends on your dealers patience.

Who knows? You might save 300 good bucks!
post #6 of 20
i love the Apollo every time i listen to it. it's got a great sense of rhythm, which is complete nonsense to the resident objectivists... but it means a lot to my listening experience.
post #7 of 20
The Appolo is a stellar player at its price head and shoulders above its competition,except for the Jolida CD-100,Opera Conersaur CDP,and Eastern Electronic Mini Max CDP they are all in its pricerange,and the Bada HT-22 for $499 is a stellar player that competes strong in this class.
post #8 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JorgeLopez11 View Post

I personally own two different CD players. One of them is precisely the Rotel RCD-1072 but last year it was modified. The other player is the much more expensive Arcam FMJ CD33.

While I'm still able to tell some differences beetween these two players, they're not huge. Nevertheless in all honesty I must say the Rotel sound is somewhat "thin" while the Arcam“s sound is more "robust" (sorry for the words). Both are transparent tough.

I really wish I had a chance to hear some of the Arcams. I've always heard great things about them. Don't get me wrong, I don't regret getting the Apollo, but I would have loved to heard some other stuff. I think YBA makes a CD player that goes for about $1,500. Would have been interesting to hear that too...

Is it the modded Rotel that you think still sounds a bit thin, or just the "out of the box" player?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JorgeLopez11 View Post

The Rotel is perfect for the HDCD decoding capabilities but the Arcam has been much more appreciated by some of my friends. Those friends do know it costs more, BTW.

In any case I use them with equal pleasure.

I have listened to the Rega Apollo as well, but I've never liked the transport at the top. It is a good player though.

I wish the Apollo did HDCD. I have a handful of HDCD's, but have never been able to hear them through a HDCD player. It wasn't a deciding factor, but it was a tempting bonus in both the Rotel and the NAD.

The loader is a little funky and I could see how it wouldn't be practical for some, especially considering the height needed to open it. I actually like it, but I'm always a little nervous snapping the CDs onto the chuck.

Scott
post #9 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssteel01 View Post

I really wish I had a chance to hear some of the Arcams. I've always heard great things about them. Don't get me wrong, I don't regret getting the Apollo, but I would have loved to heard some other stuff. I think YBA makes a CD player that goes for about $1,500. Would have been interesting to hear that too...

Is it the modded Rotel that you think still sounds a bit thin, or just the "out of the box" player?


I wish the Apollo did HDCD. I have a handful of HDCD's, but have never been able to hear them through a HDCD player. It wasn't a deciding factor, but it was a tempting bonus in both the Rotel and the NAD.

The loader is a little funky and I could see how it wouldn't be practical for some, especially considering the height needed to open it. I actually like it, but I'm always a little nervous snapping the CDs onto the chuck.

Scott

The HDCD probably doesnt make much of a difference, the main difference is that most HDCDs are engineered better from the start, thus, the quality is better anyways.

I personally have the Rotel RCD-1072, and couldnt hear much of a difference between the NAD and Cambridge audio CD players near the price range when I level matched them to 0.5db. When they were not level matched, there was much more difference, the observations I wrote down were actually pretty similar to your observations. I think the output levels of the players are not the same gain, but I really don't know much about the electronic workings of the cd player.

I bought the Rotel due to its HDCD capability, matching my other Rotel gear, and a deal that I got from my local dealer. In terms of actual superior sound quality from similarly priced models, I can't say that this factor did not play much of a role -- perhaps a limitation of my hearing.
post #10 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonomega View Post

I personally have the Rotel RCD-1072, and couldnt hear much of a difference between the NAD and Cambridge audio CD players near the price range when I level matched them to 0.5db. When they were not level matched, there was much more difference, the observations I wrote down were actually pretty similar to your observations. I think the output levels of the players are not the same gain, but I really don't know much about the electronic workings of the cd player.

If you matched to 0.5db, I assume you did some sort of measurement (probably something a bit more accurate than an SPL meter?). So, I'm curious...just how far out of "balance" are different players? I think it's really interesting that you had the same impression about the Rotel (as heard out of the box) as did some of the other folks here, but that the difference was lost once you were comparing apples to apples, level wise.

Scott
post #11 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssteel01 View Post

If you matched to 0.5db, I assume you did some sort of measurement (probably something a bit more accurate than an SPL meter?). So, I'm curious...just how far out of "balance" are different players? I think it's really interesting that you had the same impression about the Rotel (as heard out of the box) as did some of the other folks here, but that the difference was lost once you were comparing apples to apples, level wise.

Scott

Unfortunately, I did not use anything better than my RS SPL Meter. If this invalidates my audition, then thats that

I made an audition cd that had a 1khz sine wave as track 1. I adjusted the volume of the receiver such that the 1khz sine wave would be "exactly" 70db. At stock, the cd players were within a range of 3db different. I dont know if this is from the rat's nest of cables behind all the electronics or whatnot. All I know is that they were different audibly to begin with and less different when I leveled the volumes.

Since I was in the middle of the RS meter's band, there are marks for +/-1 db. I just used my eyes to halve that into 0.5db demarkations. The needle didnt fluctuate past this imaginery line in between 0 and 1db.
post #12 of 20
jonomega, have you compared the rotel RCD to say a commercial DVD player costing 150 USD level matched? (playing a CD with analog connections)

what is your opinion on the above comparison
post #13 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by ribbit View Post

jonomega, have you compared the rotel RCD to say a commercial DVD player costing 150 USD level matched? (playing a CD with analog connections)

what is your opinion on the above comparison

I don't own a commercial DVD player and don't have a need for one yet. I haven't done any "level matched" comparisons with a commercial DVD player.

The rotel does sound better than my computer's dvd burner and my laptop's dvd burner. Also, sometimes the computer's optical drive hiccups, probably due to windows.
post #14 of 20
thanks Jon
post #15 of 20
i am thinking about buying RCD-1072 myself......but is it really worth the extra over OPPO 970 which i read is a very good audio CD/SA-CD/DVD-A player for only $150 ?
post #16 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by kolyan2k View Post

i am thinking about buying RCD-1072 myself......but is it really worth the extra over OPPO 970 which i read is a very good audio CD/SA-CD/DVD-A player for only $150 ?

only you can answer that with your ears.
post #17 of 20
I listened to the Apollo for the first time yesterday, through a Rega Mira 3 amp. It is a very musical and transparent CD player. I compared it to the Music Hall CD25.2, and interestingly I found the Music Hall to be more enjoyable when listening to Radiohead's Karma Police. The MH sounded more crisp and involving, with the Apollo being more laid back. Switching the CD out for Coldplay, listening to Clocks, the Apollo was far superior. It offered much more transparency and separated the vocals from the piano much better than did the MH. Given the price difference however, I was very impressed with the Music Hall player.

I think the Apollo/Mira combination is incredibly musical. I am doing my very best to fit the Apollo into my budget. I was very surprised to notice as much of a difference between the CD players as I did. I was always of the impression that the player was the least important link in the chain.
post #18 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh74 View Post

I was always of the impression that the player was the least important link in the chain.

Not true. It is one of the most important. When you start with crap, anything in the chain that comes after it, no matter how good, will only be as strong as the weakest link.
post #19 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssteel01 View Post

Definitely have a listen. I felt like they were all quality products and it really just boiled down to price comfort and which flavor you liked best. I'd be curious to hear what your thoughts on a comparison between either the Rotel or the Rega and the Levinson.

This weekend we were able to audition the RCD-1072 on Rotel separates, the RSP-1098 and RMB-1075, connected to big B&W 803Ds. The shop didn't have a Levinson player available for demo, but they did have a McIntosh setup with what I think was the MVP861 and a MA-6300 integrated hooked up to a pair of 805s.

The caveat here was that we listened to the McIntosh system first. Holy crap, what a sound. I don't have a lot of listening experience with high-end gear, but the Mac set up was the best stereo I have ever heard. The sound was amazingly full and clean. The system performed beautifully with tracks from the Toadies Rubberneck and Nina Simone Sugar in My Bowl. However full it sounded though, the thump was missing from I Burn on the Toadies CD. It's a climactic song that builds from the ground up, starting with a couple of acoustic guitar tracks and works its way up to a smashing floor tom-tom plus kick drum extravaganza. In my car the kick and big tom cause the mirrors to shake, but here it was a simpler, less dramatic thunk. I guess it's not a problem a sub or a pair of full range speakers couldn't take care of, but it was something I was looking for. For the record, my Onix Reference 1s are incapable of handling the big sound as well. Nina Simone's I Think It's Going To Rain Today, an amazing work of vocal and piano, was absolutely stunning. When I first set up my Rotel RX-1072, Denon DVD-1730 and Onix Ref 1s I was amazed by the presentation, clarity and overall high fidelity performance of these components. The sound of Nina's voice was as live as I have ever heard. I had never heard anything better before. But that was then. The Mac and B&W blew me away. The imaging, presence and smooth nature of the system was second to none. I knew I would have a hard time transitioning to the Rotel, but I also knew I didn't have $8,000 to spend on a CD player and amp.

The store had a separate, larger room for the Rotel equipment. The RCD-1072, large touch screen processor and big 5 channel amp were paired to the B&W towers. While walking us to the listening room the salesman made a note to point out we would be listening to a big step up in speakers and gave us the impression that we should expect more from the 803s. Perhaps not surprisingly, the first impression we got was that system sounded lean. The sales guy suggested that it might have been the amp straining to power the 802s. I'm not so sure. The Rotel is a capable enough amp delivering 100 watts into 5 channels and we were listening at very modest levels. On top of that, the Mac is also a 100 watt amp, albeit powering only a pair of 805s. The difference, however, was significant. More significant than a power issue. I would opine that the difference we heard were differences in component selection and design within the amps themselves. The differences we were hearing were so significant that within the first few seconds of listening it was completely apparent that the McIntosh equipment utterly outclassed the Rotel in every way. It's not a fair comparison, since for the $8,000 price of the Mac gear we could've purchased all of the Rotel separates and still had change for cables, but it's the comparison we made. The Rotel setup was clean and very detailed, but the delivery was sterile in comparison. I wouldn't say the system was forward, that's an adjective I would save for speakers. B&Ws, in my experience, are not a forward speaker. However, the Rotel was less smooth, perhaps clinical or dry. They lacked butter. Some might consider "butter" or "smoothness" coloration of the source, but I would say smoothness is adding no more color than a clinical delivery is removing from the source. I also thought the big B&Ws should have provided that big bounce of the floor tom that I get from my car, but they didn't. Although the Rotel gear wasn't providing the fullness we heard earlier, I'm not convinced they would have that bounce with the Mac gear, either. I'd hate to take away from the Rotel, because it is a very classy performer, with a very good handle on build and quality sound, but I can't stop thinking about the Mac system. The amp in particular. One's going for $2300 on Gon right now.

Moving on, I'd like to talk a little about the likenesses between the 805s and the 803s and make a comparison to my current system. The 800 series tweeter and the way they treated higher octaves was very distinct. It was almost as if having the tweeter in a separate enclosure distinguished the highs from the rest of the music. This experience was repeatable in both systems. The symbols were distinctly contained and delivered in their own separate package. It's as if the crossovers were not set to dove tail from the mid-treble in the lower cabinet to the tweeter. Or perhaps the diamond tweeter so outclassed the rest of the drivers that the highs were entirely distinguished in their presentation. I noticed this right from the start in the McIntosh room. I'm fairly certain the highs in these systems and these rooms were of a much better quality than in my own system and room. That said, I'm also fairly certain that my current system is of a very high standard, which is both reassuring and damning. It's reassuring, because I have had little else to compare my system to and quell my upgraditis, however having heard the impeccable fullness of the McIntosh gear, I have only aggravated the sickness and will have to spend a few months fighting the urge before finally making a decision. The systems affected the midrange too much to judge whether one speaker had a better or higher quality presentation than my own. The B&Ws on Rotel were insignificantly different from my own speakers on my own Rotel set up. Only the highs were presented more gracefully than in my 2-way Ref 1s.

In my opinion, the Rotel RCD and McIntosh MVP were of less importance in either of these systems than the amps. My Denon DVD player (analogue out) seems to present a similar sound to the RCD. The differences in systems and rooms are too substantial to say for sure, but I wouldn't buy the RCD for a seemingly miniscule return. I would, however, jump headlong into that McIntosh amp without looking back. That is an upgrade. The RCD, in my opinion, would present system matching and style rather than an upgraded sound. Something to consider, anyway.
post #20 of 20
Hi all, just thought I would add my 2 cents.
My system.....Emotiva DMC1/MPS1,NAD C542, Axiom M80v2, Paradigm PW2200 plus other stuff but this is for 2 channel listening.

I recently decided to try a standalone CDP versus my Oppo 971H for stereo listening as I have really gotten heavily into this mode. I was looking at the Cambridge 640v2, Arcam 73, Rotel 1072 and the NAD 542. The 1072 was $300 more and my local dealer wouldn't allow a home demo..no deal! Cambridge was $100 more and again no home demo..no deal! Arcam dealer not close. So, I took the 542 home for a 2 day demo. Oppo was hooked up via optical to the pre/pro, via analog it sounded really thin, edgy, and very forward and bright. I hooked it up(C542) via analog to the pre/pro and let the games begin. First off, HDCD stuff(some of it) sounds friggin spectacular. My best sounding discs sounded even better, most noticable for me was depth and width of soundstage and even better imaging. Also bass was well controlled and very punchy, mids and highs are very smooth and detailed. Also of note is that discs that sounded like crap before are now listenable although some still sound like crap.

I am obviously not a reviewer but I know sound even if i can't describe it very well. I can say that for ME the cost of the NAD was well worth every penny and yes I can hear a big difference....lovin it. BTW, I'm sure any of the above mentioned CDP would have made me just as happy but I just wanted to share my thoughts on what a CDP can do for an audio system as there are so many nay sayers as in "DVD, CD, they all sound the same"..I disagree.
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