or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP › Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 1080
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 1080 - Page 3

post #61 of 1271
In regards to Epson contrast ratings; as has been stated in various reviews, Epson tends to be conservative and thus, in their best contrast friendly modes, the Epson meet or exceed their ratings. So I would expect something in the 10K + range at a minimum under good conditions.

Another likely difference between the 1080 and the high end equivalent is the lens and possibly the video processing/scaler.

C2Fine panels I hope will be used on this model.

To come in at a price point that much lower, something has to give. Epson hasn't really come out with scaler info in the past.

I used to own a 550, now an 800. Was very happy with both. Epson colors are fantastic, placment super flexible, bright when it needs to be.
post #62 of 1271
With all due respect to C2fine, if you look at Cine4home.com, who have checked the native contrast of several 1080p projectors with C2fine panels, the native contrast they've measured is very similar to the 720p LCD units of today: around 1000:1. I can still remember the hype about C2fine panels, which supposedly should stop all light in black, lol, what a lie, I mean, it barely raised the contrast ratio in 5%.
post #63 of 1271
One item you guys apparently missed is that the Pro models have better lenses than the Home Cinema models. There is an obvious difference between the 810 lens assembly and the 400's. I would expect that the same applies to the Home 1080 and the Pro 1080 models
(another reason for the price difference). Also, the C2Fine panels (see the OP's link to the press release) are better than the D5+ 720 panels used in the Epson 720 models (contrary to what Jones_Rush said, there is a significant difference beteen them).

ChrisW6ATV -- Now I'm glad that Warrantech came through with a replacement lamp for my MT700. It'll give me some more time on it before I have to upgrade. With this announcement, it looks like I can look forward to a 1080p PJ sooner than I thought. Send me an email when you get yours. I would be real interested in seeing it.
post #64 of 1271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones_Rush View Post

With all due respect to C2fine, if you look at Cine4home.com, who have checked the native contrast of several 1080p projectors with C2fine panels, the native contrast they've measured is very similar to the 720p LCD units of today: around 1000:1. I can still remember the hype about C2fine panels, which supposedly should stop all light in black, lol, what a lie, I mean, it barely raised the contrast ratio in 5%.

Supposedly, reviewers are getting good contrast from the TW1000, which is essentially the same thing as the new model. (Don't have time to find the reviews though -- read the TW1000 thread on the 3,000+ forum.)
post #65 of 1271
Native contrast is around 700:1
DI contrast without the cinema filter engaged is 2000:1
DI contrast with the cinema filter engaged is 5000:1
Check it out at www.cine4home.de
post #66 of 1271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones_Rush View Post

With all due respect to C2fine, if you look at Cine4home.com, who have checked the native contrast of several 1080p projectors with C2fine panels, the native contrast they've measured is very similar to the 720p LCD units of today: around 1000:1. I can still remember the hype about C2fine panels, which supposedly should stop all light in black, lol, what a lie, I mean, it barely raised the contrast ratio in 5%.

That will depend what reviews you read. Bill Cushman of WSR have reviewed the Sanyo PLV-Z5 with 720p D5 panels and the Panasonic PT-AE1000 with 1080p D6 C2fine panels recently. The on-off contrast ratio he measured for the Sanyo with auto-iris off and fixed iris at -30 was 750:1. The on-off for Panasonic with auto-iris off was 1683:1. I would say from this set of measurements, D6 C2Fine panels have significantly better contrast than D5 panels.

My own personal real life experience also confirms this. I upgraded from an Epson TW-600/Cinema Pro 800 with D5 panels to a TW1000/Cinema pro 1080 with D6 panels. The contrast and black level of the TW 1000 are significantly better than the TW 600 even with auto iris off. The difference is not even close.
post #67 of 1271
And I'll argue that Epson does NOT need to change to D5+ panels or use cheaper lenses to make a competitive (note: I didn't say maximum) profit at $2999 in the No.America market. If you check what the prices are for the PRO model in Japan and Hong Kong you will see they are streeting for LESS than $3K US.

Now, if the accountants are completely running the show for this Home Cinema model then they might try to substitue lower quality components to try to maintain the highest profit margin, but I really hope this is not the case. We'll soon find out when a couple of the good reviewers get their hands on them (Ekkhart likes to take them apart!!).
post #68 of 1271
Quote:
Originally Posted by CT_Wiebe View Post

One item you guys apparently missed is that the Pro models have better lenses than the Home Cinema models. There is an obvious difference between the 810 lens assembly and the 400's. I would expect that the same applies to the Home 1080 and the Pro 1080 models
(another reason for the price difference). .

That may have been true in the past, but there is no indication this is the case with this "new" PJ. I use the term "new" lightly as I agree with RolandJim, this is most likely a rebadged TW1000. Lesser warranties, no extra bulb, mount, AND the desire to sell some PJs in the U.S. could be enough to merit the decreased price. There would most likely be added R&D costs if they were to retool the lense as well...
post #69 of 1271
I am very interested in this. Will keep my ear to the ground for the PJ Central review (although needs to be taken with a grain of salt, so to say).

Am considering bumping off the RS1 prebuy, glad I'm in the round 3 delivery group...
post #70 of 1271
To get an idea of how this unit compares to other 1080p LCD offerings, I've compiled as many reviews as I could find.

Cine4home Epson TW1000 Review (translated)

* Measurements were on a Pre-Production Model *




Cine4home Mits HC5000 Review (translated)





Projector Reviews Mits HC5000 Review


Lumen Measurements on high lamp (no mention of zoom setting):
Dynamic - 886 lumens
Best Mode - 480 lumens

In general
Low Lamp -23%


Projector Central Mits HC5000 Review

Lumen Measurements with zoom at widest angle and lamp on high:
Brightest Mode - 918 lumens
Brightest (Max Zoom) - 694 lumens
Best Color - 532 lumens
Best Color (Low Lamp) - 410 lumens

In general
Low Lamp -23%
Max Zoom -24%


Projector Reviews AE1000 Review

Lumen Measurements with middle zoom and lamp on high:
Dynamic - 844 lumens
Normal - 586 lumens
Cinema 3 - 580 lumens
Color 2 - 359 lumens
Cinema 2 - 348 lumens
Color 1 - 331 lumens

In general
Low Lamp -20%
Max Zoom -30%
Min Zoom +30%


Projector Central Panny AE1000 Review


Lumen Measurements with zoom at widest angle and lamp on high:
Dynamic - over 900 lumens
Normal/Cinema 3 (good color) - around 500 lumens
Cinema 1/Cinema 2 (best color) - about 250 lumens

In general
Low Lamp -28%
Max Zoom -45%

They liked Cinema 3 the best (w/tweaking) for balance of lumens/colors/contrast.
post #71 of 1271
Hope those reviews are helpful. If anyone knows of others, let me know and I'll edit them into the post. It is too bad that no one other than Cine4home measures BOTH contrast and lumens...
-Matt
post #72 of 1271
Yay! Looks like I'll be replacing my Sony HS-20 within a year or two!
post #73 of 1271
Stopped by FRY'S City of Industry Ca. today. Asked TV salesman if they would carry Epson PowerLite Home Cinema1080. He said they don't sell Epson in the TV section only the computer section for business PJ's. Oh Well!
post #74 of 1271
Unless they have an advertized sale on a PJ that you're interested in, FRY's is probably the worst place to buy a PJ from. Also, their floor personnel generally can't give you the right answer to any question except where to find an item (they are not technical wizards - except for the occasional, rare, retired engineer looking for a little extra spending money).

Your "informant' was correct though, except they do have an occasional HT type PJ, but they are (usually) in the computer section of the store (they aren't considered TVs). Also, they will only sell those PJs that they can get real cheap, so they can sell them cheap (usually a lot buy from an inventory dump).
post #75 of 1271
I'm a bit disappointed in the 1 year warranty. I know, for $3k x 1080p we can't expect everything but that's pretty skimpy coverage on a PJ that expensive. I suppose at the price though you could still buy and extended warranty and end up a few hundred $ below the nearest competitor.

Hopefully we'll get some pro reviews of the American model soon. I'm eager to see how the black levels compare to the 720p DarkChip3 models on the market now.
post #76 of 1271
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpjohnst View Post

Hope those reviews are helpful. If anyone knows of others, let me know and I'll edit them into the post. It is too bad that no one other than Cine4home measures BOTH contrast and lumens...
-Matt

Are those contrast numbers ANSI contrast or on/off contrast?
post #77 of 1271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Babcock View Post

I'm a bit disappointed in the 1 year warranty. I know, for $3k x 1080p we can't expect everything but that's pretty skimpy coverage on a PJ that expensive. I suppose at the price though you could still buy and extended warranty and end up a few hundred $ below the nearest competitor.


yeah, disappointing, but same warranty as the panasonic 1080p which seems to be the closest competitor...
post #78 of 1271
Projector Central just posted their review of the Epson; both the Pro and the non-Pro version:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/epso...ma_1080.htm%22

Jim
post #79 of 1271
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctviggen View Post

Are those contrast numbers ANSI contrast or on/off contrast?

Everything is on/off.
post #80 of 1271
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamtheatre View Post

Projector Central just posted their review of the Epson; both the Pro and the non-Pro version:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/epso...ma_1080.htm%22

Jim

Seems to be a discrepancy about the warranty... they list the Home model as having a 2-yr while the Pro has a 3-yr. Didn't the press release say 1-yr?
post #81 of 1271
these reviews make them sound pretty damn similar- optics, processing etc. as I understand, the pro model comes ISF calibrated out of the box. no reference to this on projector central, they simply mention pro model retailers ability to offer calibration. anyone able to shed some light on this?
post #82 of 1271
Have previous Epson models offered vertical strech for 2:35?
post #83 of 1271
Projector Central has their review up! Seems to be good, but I wish he did more thorough reviews - guess we'll need to wait for cine4home and projectorreviews and widescreenreview for those. http://www.projectorcentral.com:80/e...inema_1080.htm
post #84 of 1271
It's not ISF calibrated out of the box, I believe; it just has an ISF menu setting that allows a calibrator to dial it in. You would need a video processor to do 2.35 with either projector.

Jim
post #85 of 1271
Quote:
Originally Posted by daggerNC View Post

Projector Central has their review up! Seems to be good, but I wish he did more thorough reviews - guess we'll need to wait for cine4home and projectorreviews and widescreenreview for those. http://www.projectorcentral.com:80/e...inema_1080.htm

Not sure what you mean by "good."

PJC usually 'gushes' about anything LCD, but it's clearly stated in this review that contrast/black level doesn't compare to the rest of the 1080 pack, with the exception of the Mits, and that has been reviewed to have only mediocre black level. Calibrated lumens are close to, if not the worst of the 1080 pj's to date.

Bummer...
post #86 of 1271
It doesn't matter, Panasonic will have to retaliate now with a lower price for the AE1000.
post #87 of 1271
You guys can poo poo it if you want for not being the world beater in contrast. I sure haven't seen it. But if it can switch between about 400 lumens for night time and 1300 lumens to fight ambient and it is as sharp as it needs to be, and the signal processing is top notch, and it is this easy to install, for this price, there will be a long wait very quickly.
post #88 of 1271
No doubt- it's a lot for the money.
post #89 of 1271
If you read the TW1000 thread, supposedly a lot of those people think it has excellent blacks and contrast. There are posts that compare the Panny AX100 with the TW1000, and most like the TW1000.

As for ProjectorCentral, I'm not sure what to think of them. The reviews aren't detailed enough (no contrast; very confusing lumen numbers relative to what's found elsewhere and just in general) and they reach some odd conclusions. For instance, he'll call a projector suitable for relatively large screens when it produces well less than 400 lumens (calibrated) and isn't really suitable for large screens, then say another projector that produces darn near the same lumen output isn't suitable for large screens. Also, they really slammed the Pearl, especially for lumen output, but their lumen numbers were shockingly different than every other reviewer's numbers, yet he didn't say "maybe I got a bad one". There are too many logical and other inconsistencies. PC seems biased to me. Consequently, I've personally given up on Projector Central and don't do anything without Art's or Cine4home's reviews.

To me, the Epson is great because it's cheap (the TW1000 from overseas is even cheaper and what I'd personally buy), it has a good enough picture, it can get bright, and allows one access to calibration screens. Even the much heralded JVC doesn't allow access to calibration screens, and is about double the price.
post #90 of 1271
OK, dumb question time: Would this (or any 3LCD) PJ need convergence calibration much as a 3-tube CRT PJ? And if it does, how much of a pain is it to do (my reference point is my 5-year old Mits RPTV) and does it require an ISF expert to do it?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP › Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 1080